Teams & Riders Derek Gee is the new G

[Samamba]

In cycling the system works very differently than in football. Almost all riders, probably 99%, stay with their team until their contract ends. Buying a rider out of their contract is rare, since most contracts don’t even include buyout clauses. I’ve heard that UAE includes them, but for someone like Logan Currie I doubt there is one.

In football, there’s a formal transfer system with additional mechanisms. For example, when a player is sold for €5M, the original club might keep a 10% resale clause so they benefit if he’s sold again later. Cycling doesn’t have anything like this, and I don’t understand why. Especially for smaller teams, resale or transfer clauses could be a smart way to strengthen their budgets.

The fact that there is a different mentality and most riders fulfill their contracts doesn't mean there isn't a transfer system. It is literally the same as football or any other sport, it just isn't seen as it (cause it isnt "marketed" that way). If you want to buy a rider from another team, you can. The other team just has to agree, just like in any other sport. You say there aren't buy out clauses like it's a typical thing to do in football. And while it's been more frequent lately and definitely in bigger competition (in Spain it's obligated to have one, so they use unrealistically high ones), most footballers definitely do not have a buy out clause.

Also on you last paragraph. It actually DOES exist in some way. There is a development fee, it's just small.

 

[Berniece]

The fact that there is a different mentality and most riders fulfill their contracts doesn't mean there isn't a transfer system. It is literally the same as football or any other sport, it just isn't seen as it (cause it isnt "marketed" that way). If you want to buy a rider from another team, you can. The other team just has to agree, just like in any other sport. You say there aren't buy out clauses like it's a typical thing to do in football. And while it's been more frequent lately and definitely in bigger competition (in Spain it's obligated to have one, so they use unrealistically high ones), most footballers definitely do not have a buy out clause.

Also on you last paragraph. It actually DOES exist in some way. There is a development fee, it's just small.

A lot would still need to change though. First and foremost, the mentality around contracts. Then the rules: right now, you can’t officially approach riders who are under contract, so that would need to shift. Buyout clauses would also have to become a normal part of deals, and it’s worth stressing that a development fee is not the same thing as a resale agreement.

The reality is that the current system is still built on old mechanics, you sign a contract, and you’re simply expected to see it through.

 

[Netserk]

A lot would still need to change though. First and foremost, the mentality around contracts. Then the rules: right now, you can’t officially approach riders who are under contract, so that would need to shift. Buyout clauses would also have to become a normal part of deals, and it’s worth stressing that a development fee is not the same thing as a resale agreement.

The reality is that the current system is still built on old mechanics, you sign a contract, and you’re simply expected to see it through.

It's up to the parties involved to draft a different contract with different provisions. If the rider willingly signs a contract without a buyout clause, then it's only natural that the team expects them to see it through.

 

[Berniece]

It's up to the parties involved to draft a different contract with different provisions. If the rider willingly signs a contract without a buyout clause, then it's only natural that the team expects them to see it through.

I'm not saying the framework isn't there, although UCI needs to change some small things. I'm saying the mindset of teams and riders need to change. Things like this hopefully push it in that direction.

 

[Brullnux]

Has Gee or anyone close to him actually hinted at his reasons, or are we to just imagine whatever motive we like best?

It's all speculation, though the team have said that they had been in the middle of a renegotiation of his current contract (I'd imagine to increase his salary to something around his actual worth). Given IPT don't have any real financial issues beyond Chris Froome, and Gee is by far and away their best rider, it doesn't seem particularly likely to me that it is down (purely) to money.

I really doubt IPT are naive enough to risk losing their best rider by refusing to give them a pay rise that matches their new performance level, and it was fair enough from Gee to ask for a renegotiation.

 

[Brullnux]

Labor laws, destroying sports for the good of the common man the richest teams

The Diarra case was also based on competition law, which is slightly ironic.

 

[Red Rick]

In this case money is not the primary reason, so it seems.

It seems he wants to hint at something without saying much to make people think it's not about money when it's about money.

 

[Samamba]

A lot would still need to change though. First and foremost, the mentality around contracts. Then the rules: right now, you can’t officially approach riders who are under contract, so that would need to shift. Buyout clauses would also have to become a normal part of deals, and it’s worth stressing that a development fee is not the same thing as a resale agreement.

The reality is that the current system is still built on old mechanics, you sign a contract, and you’re simply expected to see it through.

It's like you just don't really understand other transfer systems. You cant officially approach a football player who's under contract either... You always have to notify the team first and they need to agree. In reality (just like in cycling) that all doesnt matter of course. Most of the other things are all technically possible in cycling too.

It's all a mentality thing and you seem to think that your opinion (the one telling that it has to change and the football system is so much better than the current one in this sport) is the only correct one (where rich teams can just buy everyone and everything, great). And like I've repeated multiple times. The FIFA transfer system where the FIFA blocks players who have unilaterally broken their contract from signing to another team is NOT LEGAL. Why would a governing body copy it when they know they are gonna have some lawsuits directed their way?

 

[Berniece]

It's all a mentality thing and you seem to think that your opinion is the only correct one.

I think it's better than what we have now. It gives smaller teams with a great development team (e.g. Lotto), the possibility to earn on their efforts and use that money to keep your bigger names. On top of that signing a talented rider for a longer period of time and eventually selling him gives more security for the rider.

I get that this opens the door to rich teams being able to buy every rider. But you don't have to agree as a team, you can always ask much more.

 

[Samamba]

you can always ask much more.

For the millionth time, NO YOU CAN'T cause a rider can just threaten to break his contract. An "absence" of a formal transfer system is NOT the reason why riders are trying to break their contract right now sometimes. It has nothing to do with it. It's cause teams don't give them everything they want/don't let them go whenever they want and they have labor laws to protect them. Transfer system or not, it stays the same.

 

[Berniece]

For the millionth time, NO YOU CAN'T cause a rider can just threaten to break his contract. An "absence" of a formal transfer system is NOT the reason why riders are trying to break their contract right now sometimes. It has nothing to do with it. It's cause teams don't give them everything they want/don't let them go whenever they want and they have labor laws to protect them. Transfer system or not, it stays the same.

I don't understand that you can't see a difference between the transfer system in football and cycling.

 

[Netserk]

I don't understand that you can't see a difference between the transfer system in football and cycling.

Do you want riders who unilaterally breaks their contract to be suspended?

 

[Samamba]

I don't understand that you can't see a difference between the transfer system in football and cycling.

I don't understand why you keep ignoring laws or rulings by EU court.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Do you want riders who unilaterally breaks their contract to be suspended?

I can't answer for Berniece, but if there is no other restraint on them from breaking the contract: yes.

A contract is freely entered into, is agreed by both parties, and is binding on both parties. If one side wishes to break it, they should make sufficient offer to the other to make the breach agreeable to them.

 

[primoz]

[content deleted] But of this whole underperforming team only Gee and maybe Ricitello(whose contract is up) could get more money elsewhere.

 

[janraaskalt]

Has Gee or anyone close to him actually hinted at his reasons, or are we to just imagine whatever motive we like best?

Close reading: "certain issues simply made my continuation at the team untenable".

Untenable: (especially of a position or view) not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection.

 

[Gratemans]

Close reading: "certain issues simply made my continuation at the team untenable".

Untenable: (especially of a position or view) not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection.

Going by your username I'm gonna assume you're Dutch. And the word 'untenable' perfectly translates to 'onhoudbaar'.
Which still doesn't say anything at all about why he chose to terminate his contract.

 

[Tim Cahill]

In an apolitical sense I think if his motivation is financial then it could be a bad idea to lean into the 'moral reasons' angle, or hint towards it like he might've been doing. If it backfires and generates a bit of international coverage then there could be people outside of cycling getting involved and a serious digging-of-the-heels happening.

Similarly, if he's not happy with the humanitarian situation etc then just say it, doesn't really have much worth as an ethical stand if everyone thinks you're just a money grabber.

Again he's not really been explicit yet, maybe he's just fed up of Froome.

 

[janraaskalt]

Going by your username I'm gonna assume you're Dutch. And the word 'untenable' perfectly translates to 'onhoudbaar'.
Which still doesn't say anything at all about why he chose to terminate his contract.

Still, "certain issues" is not money. We don't know for sure until he speaks out, but if it was money he would have put it differently.

 

[yaco]

I susggest if there were political/social reasons for Gee wishing to leave, then you will see an exodus of IPT riders leaving in the future.

 

[Mayomaniac]

But of this whole underperforming team only Gee and maybe Ricitello(whose contract is up) could get more money elsewhere.

Tbf, with the Iron Extortionist Froome finally being out of contract they really could give their top gc rider a nice pay raise...

 

[Ripper]

I susggest if there were political/social reasons for Gee wishing to leave, then you will see an exodus of IPT riders leaving in the future.

Possibly, but I would not even say probably. I mean, there is not a current mass exodus, but you have new retiree Jakob Fuglsang not entirely speaking nicely about wearing an IPT jersey. And then you have teams like UAE that have no problem hiring great talent (because money talks), even though from an organizational socio-political perspective, they are pretty dang horrible!

Only Gee unit and those close to him know the details. I suspect the team is not a fit for multiple reasons (politics, compensation, support for ambitions, possibly team leadership/management).

 

[Berniece]

Do you want riders who unilaterally breaks their contract to be suspended?

Yes, unless they can prove in court there was a good reason for it

I don't understand why you keep ignoring laws or rulings by EU court.

Because they don’t seem to influence football all that much. I’m just saying that we should have the same system, and if the system is there, the same mindset that it’s actually implemented as such.

 

[Extinction]

Possibly, but I would not even say probably. I mean, there is not a current mass exodus, but you have new retiree Jakob Fuglsang not entirely speaking nicely about wearing an IPT jersey. And then you have teams like UAE that have no problem hiring great talent (because money talks), even though from an organizational socio-political perspective, they are pretty dang horrible!

Only Gee unit and those close to him know the details. I suspect the team is not a fit for multiple reasons (politics, compensation, support for ambitions, possibly team leadership/management).

Money and skin is a difficult compromise.

 

[Samamba]

Yes, unless they can prove in court there was a good reason for it


Because they don’t seem to influence football all that much. I’m just saying that we should have the same system, and if the system is there, the same mindset that it’s actually implemented as such.

It influences football way more than you think (plenty of footballers who threaten to break their contract or do other weird stuff to get of a club so that the club can't do anything else than to cooperate with them), and the consequences aren't fully known yet.

Football transfer system is horrible in many ways, I find it kinda hilarious that someone would want to copy it. But besides that, this discussion is one of the worst I've had on here. I respect you as a poster here, but just ignoring the facts and keep suggesting that the UCI should do something they know is illegal and would risk a lawsuit they would lose, is annoying. I wish they could block it, to put all these greedy riders in their place, but they can't. It's that simple, and a transfer system is not changing that (if anything it would make it worse). A team or the UCI wouldn't have a leg to stand on, in most countries at least (cause obviously the international character of this sport makes it even more complicated).