Did Cav give the green away?

[WinterRider]

So looking at the green jersey standings, Cav is now just 16 points down from Ale-Jet.

I figure he has spotted Ale-Jet 14 points so far.

Recall the sprint on stage 4 when he sat up once he realized he couldn't win. About 6 guys swarm past him right at the end. If he kept sprinting he would probably have got another 6 points.

Then there was the first sprint for points on stage 10, contested by Ale-Jet, Hushovd and McEwan. I recall the commentators mentioning that he didn't bother because he just couldn't be bothered. Given that he had already recovered his form, and basically hasn't lost a sprint since stage 4, there is good reason to believe he could have won this sprint which would have been an 8 point swing in his favour.

So he could have been just 2 points down instead of 16, and given that he is almost a shoo in on Sunday, he has basically p***ed away the green jersey.

If he somehow manages to win it on Sunday (meaning Ale-jet really bombs the sprint) I'll be pretty disappointed since he has not shown he cares about the points jersey at all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Also, on stage 3, he came in in the group that began with Ciolek (22nd). He finished 25th - that's three points thrown away there because nobody on this earth except maybe Ciolek's mum thinks that Ciolek would beat Cav in a sprint for the line.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think the not caring might not be too far from the truth.

Cav's bread and butter is winning sprints. That's what the team, and sponsors, pay him for. So he's interested in the green jersey in so far as it represents the best sprinters jersey.

It's now clear the consensus here is that the green jersey is not about sprinting anymore, and jersey or no jersey, Cavendish is incontestably the sprinter of the last 3 tours, so he can hit his real targets without getting the green jersey.

That is not to say he does not want the jersey, but it would be no bad thing for him to treat it purely as an accidental extra and continue to win 5 stages a year.

 

[Carl0880]

So looking at the green jersey standings, Cav is now just 16 points down from Ale-Jet.

I figure he has spotted Ale-Jet 14 points so far.

Recall the sprint on stage 4 when he sat up once he realized he couldn't win. About 6 guys swarm past him right at the end. If he kept sprinting he would probably have got another 6 points.

Then there was the first sprint for points on stage 10, contested by Ale-Jet, Hushovd and McEwan. I recall the commentators mentioning that he didn't bother because he just couldn't be bothered. Given that he had already recovered his form, and basically hasn't lost a sprint since stage 4, there is good reason to believe he could have won this sprint which would have been an 8 point swing in his favour.

So he could have been just 2 points down instead of 16, and given that he is almost a shoo in on Sunday, he has basically p***ed away the green jersey.

If he somehow manages to win it on Sunday (meaning Ale-jet really bombs the sprint) I'll be pretty disappointed since he has not shown he cares about the points jersey at all.

He cared about it but after stage 4, he was down almost 60 pts to Thor. They simply changed objectives to only stage wins and didn't consider it possible to get back in the jersey chase. No one could have foreseen Thor being this bad in the field sprints. The 4 stages Cav won Thor average finish was 10th?

I am sure Cav will realize that their are things he could have done different, but its no use worrying about that.

 

[Highlander]

He shouldn't even be this close since the organizers should have never eliminated all the points for Stage 2 (except for the winner). Cav was dropped and finished well back, so he wasn't in the running for anything while Thor and Petacchi were both still with the peloton.

 

[goggalor]

Meh. If we're talking could've been's, it wasn't Cav who gave it away, it was Cancellara who stole it.

 

[Delicato]

You mean-Should Petacchi have given away jersey to Cav?

 

[hrotha]

If you're the best sprinter and you're killing yourself to get to Paris, not trying to win the green jersey is just stupid. Imagine if Contador decided to lose 20 minutes early so that he could go stage-hunting and win the KOM jersey.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

If you're the best sprinter and you're killing yourself to get to Paris, not trying to win the green jersey is just stupid. Imagine if Contador decided to lose 20 minutes early so that he could go stage-hunting and win the KOM jersey.

Err, let me put this in a quick equation for you -

winning tour >>> multiple stage wins >>> green jersey

Winning a sprint is far easier to sell to largely uninterested sponsors than a jersey predicated on the exciting virtue of consistancy.

 

[hrotha]

Err, let me put this in a quick equation for you -

winning tour >>> multiple stage wins >>> green jersey

Winning a sprint is far easier to sell to largely uninterested sponsors than a jersey predicated on the exciting virtue of consistancy.

In what way does trying to win the green jersey hinder your chances to win stages?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

In what way does trying to win the green jersey hinder your chances to win stages?

I'm just playing the devils advocate that maybe he doesn't really care. I don't think any numbers of green jerseys will affect his earnings potential, and his legacy is going to look goo enough regardless.

In practice, in this tour, he didnt bother because he worked on the flawed assumption that Thor was still a sprinter, and thus he had no chance after the first few stages anyway.

But in a future tour I can easily imagine trying for bonus sprints could take a little something out of you which proved pivotal when it came to the real sprint.

 

[WinterRider]

Err, let me put this in a quick equation for you -

winning tour >>> multiple stage wins >>> green jersey

Winning a sprint is far easier to sell to largely uninterested sponsors than a jersey predicated on the exciting virtue of consistancy.

That should read:

winning tour >>> multiple stage wins + green jersey >>> multiple stage wins >>> green jersey

Cav only had to sprint for an extra 5 seconds in stage 4, and do one intermediate sprint (note that sprinting is considered by some to be something he's good at) to be in a commanding position for the green.

Having the green increases exposure, and therefore is of interest to some sponsors.

Maybe you should give the math a break for a while and watch some more cycling

 

[WinterRider]

I'm just playing the devils advocate that maybe he doesn't really care. I don't think any numbers of green jerseys will affect his earnings potential, and his legacy is going to look goo enough regardless.

In practice, in this tour, he didnt bother because he worked on the flawed assumption that Thor was still a sprinter, and thus he had no chance after the first few stages anyway.

But in a future tour I can easily imagine trying for bonus sprints could take a little something out of you which proved pivotal when it came to the real sprint.

I really don't think that an extra 5 seconds (stage 4) + one bonus sprint in the middle of the tour (with the next sprint stage days away) would harm a sprinters form in the least. Cav just needs to mature a bit and realize that you should never give up just because things aren't going your way at the moment. If he had even a 10 of the heart of say a Cadel Evans or a Jens Voight he would be in green already.

 

[180mmCrank]

I think much has bee nsaid already about this but I think the learning for Cav (and anyone in a three week race) is that things change as the race unfolds. I wonder if in the future he might adopt a slightly different approach...

The positive outcome from all this is that yet again he has demonstrated that he can get over the mountains and still be in good shape to sprint. It's only a matter of time before he wins green.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I really don't think that an extra 5 seconds (stage 4) + one bonus sprint in the middle of the tour (with the next sprint stage days away) would harm a sprinters form in the least. Cav just needs to mature a bit and realize that you should never give up just because things aren't going your way at the moment. If he had even a 10 of the heart of say a Cadel Evans or a Jens Voight he would be in green already.

Are you a new account of ACF?
But nno you're right i couldn't agree more

 

[Hawkwood]

I know he has a US sponsor, however in Britain it's difficult enough trying to explain how the yellow jersey competition works never mind the green one. What people here do understand is someone crossing the finishing line first, hence to many in Britain stage wins are what counts.

 

[**Uru**]

As has been discussed on the thread about KOM competition, perhaps the set up for the points competition is flawed. They weigh the finish far higher than the intermediate sprints, but maybe the intermediate sprints are still too much of a factor. They reward riders like Thor who are fine riders in their own right, but not pure sprinters. Also, Cav is obviously the fastest sprinter at this years tour.

Perhaps they should split the points competition into two and have the finish placings count toward the point competition and the intermediate sprints count toward some kind of break-away competition or not reward points at all for intermediate sprints and just give cash prizes.

 

[hrotha]

How about whoever wants to win the green jersey works for it chasing down breakaways when they have a contender if there are sprints ahead? It worked well before.

 

[goggalor]

As has been discussed on the thread about KOM competition, perhaps the set up for the points competition is flawed. They weigh the finish far higher than the intermediate sprints, but maybe the intermediate sprints are still too much of a factor. They reward riders like Thor who are fine riders in their own right, but not pure sprinters. Also, Cav is obviously the fastest sprinter at this years tour.

Perhaps they should split the points competition into two and have the finish placings count toward the point competition and the intermediate sprints count toward some kind of break-away competition or not reward points at all for intermediate sprints and just give cash prizes.

This would be boring. Winning the green jersey would take even less work if only a ten second effort at the end of every stage would count. Today the pure sprinters are at least penalized somewhat if they and their slaves autobus it immediately whenever the road tilts upwards.

I'd either keep it as is, or do it Giro-style.

 

[Cordon Bleu]

Put it this way:

Would you rather win 5 stages or win the green jersey with one or two wins?

I like to win races. I'll take wins over the green jersey.

 

[sagard]

I think the point of the poster is the Cav should have had both the Green Jersey and the stage wins. Just a small bit more effort in a couple places and he gets both.

That said, I don't think he is a lock in Stage 20.

 

[Four Winds]

The defining moment of Cav's green jersey campign was going on his backside in stage 1. Given that Renshaw finished 2nd you'd say he would have at least been second- Peta said no-one was passing him that day. If he'd not fallen he'd have been in Green in Paris.

He came to the tour lacking confidence and it came at the worst possible time. After that setback he went on to make errors in 3 (thinking their were no more points available when he rolled in 25th) and 4. At that stage he was about 70/80 points behind Hushovd and Petacchi.

I don't think he'd have made those errors had he been up there in stage 1 and given himself a lift. I think he already thought it was over.

But since stage 5 he has mopped up 100% of the points available to him with 4 wins and 2 bunch sprints. Quite a turn-around, and he seems to be trying to be nicer too. Would be nice for him to send a rocket off occasionally tho. I miss entertaining Cav a bit?

 

[crispy]

Perhaps they should split the points competition into two and have the finish placings count toward the point competition and the intermediate sprints count toward some kind of break-away competition or not reward points at all for intermediate sprints and just give cash prizes.

They used to have the red jersey that was just for the intermediate sprints but they dropped that (and the combination jersey) mainly for the sake of simplicity I think.

 

[avanti]

What is the points breakdown for the final stage (two intermediate and final sprints)?
Thanks.

 

[asdfgh101]

Final stage: If Cavendish beats Petacchi in both intermediate sprints (6, 4, 2) and then wins whilst Petacchi places 5th (35, 30, 26, 24, 22) then he takes the Green Jersey by 1 point.

Why aren't there more jerseys?

Only 4 allowed

What to do about the intermediate points?

Make it into a prize (award points 5, 3, 2, 1 to reward consistent presence in breakaways, have finishes on both flat and uncategorised hills to suit different types of riders)

How to give all-rounders a chance in green jersey without discriminating against pure sprinters who dominate bunch sprints?

More stages which could end up in a bunch sprint but not necassarily (like the stage which Vino won, stage 2 but without the descent of death, cobbles but with more spare wheels at roadside).

Adopt standard 25 points downwards for top 15 in all non-flat stages, then 30 points downwards for top 15 in flat stages (30, 24, 20, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1).

This would reward consistent sprinting as well as performance on more difficult stages.

Standings would currently be (if stage 2, in which only Hushovd made 1st group, was not neutralised)

After stage 3: Hushovd 75, Petacchi 30, Cavendish 0

After stage 4: Hushovd 82, Petacchi 60, Cavendish 4

After stage 5: Hushovd 96, Petacchi 68, Cavendish 34

From here on the finishing order was Cavendish ahead of Petacchi ahead of Hushovd (save for stage 16 to Pau)

After stage 18: Petacchi 158, Cavendish 155, Hushovd 133,

Contador 96 (so GC contender could win if he was to rack up high places in TT's and mountains, with emphasis on wins)

Since Hushovd's last good sprint: Cavendish 121, Petacchi 90, Hushovd 37

But anyway, Cavendish did make an error on stage 3 which cost him 3 points and i guess he was too disconsulate to think about the green jersey when he blew on stage 4. He had a chance to go for one intermediate sprint, but with regards to marshalling Hushovd; DON'T COLUMBIA DO ENOUGH WORK ALREADY!

Finally Cavendish today was not only the fastest but also the smartest sprinter on show, highlighting that the HTC lead-out train is a luxury rather than a necessity.

Today's sprint was really fun to anaylse from a technical standpoint (i'll admit to watching about 15 replays); whilst Hushovd/CTT, Petacchi and Dean all made errors, Cavendish was perfect, roll on Paris.