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Dirtiest active DS

Dirtiest active DS

  • Marc Madiot (FdJeux)

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Aug 12, 2009
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Which one of the currently active Directeur Sportifs is the dirtiest? Dirty is defined as accepting or actively encouraging doping practices on the team, being associated with known doping-related persons or using the UCI non-negative rider list as a draft for next seasons roster.

I've intentionally left out non-active DS' (Saiz, Ferretti).
 
Aug 12, 2009
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my personal favourite is actually LeFevre. His track record is very long. He made such a mess out of Mapei that Squinzi eventually had no choice but to pull out.
People always talk about the absurd Fleche-Wallone podium in 1994, I've always found the results of Paris-Roubaix much more absurd, with the 1996 podium being the worst.
He had no problems hiring Virenque after his suspension and made a Paris-Tour winner out of him. Museuw was also given a place on the team after his retirement despite his recent involvement in the Landyut-affair.

Lefevres long time employment of Dirk Nachtergale and the rumours regarding the non-negative of Marc Lotz (Lefevre was believed to have tipped anti-doping authorities to get rid of Lotz) only adds to my disgust for this man.
 
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I didn't see Tera Patrick on the list, but my initial confusion gave way to understanding when I realized you meant Director Sportif. Clearly the answer is Bruyneel in that case.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Thoughtforfood said:
I didn't see Tera Patrick on the list, but my initial confusion gave way to understanding when I realized you meant Director Sportif. Clearly the answer is Bruyneel in that case.

Ok - I had to google Tera Patrick, as I thought they may be some obscure DS on Rock Racing or something. I am enlightened - but have to make up my mind if I am grateful, I will post back my thoughts in a few hours or days.

@TFF - being a young eager student of law - would Bruyneel not be considered more a General Manager than a DS??

Either way - fwiw, my vote goes for Lefevre - as an ex rider and current DS his 'career' would be the longest.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Which of this group admitted to personally using PEDs during their personal career?

How many riders (while riding for the individual directors) tested positive for, or later admitted to using, PEDs while riding for the particular director?

If you do not include this type of information, the opinions seem slightly speculative.

Of course because testing is not perfect, the true answer is and will remain, unknown.

Personally, based on very little information, I am going with Patrick LeFevre.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Martinello said:
my personal favourite is actually LeFevre. His track record is very long. He made such a mess out of Mapei that Squinzi eventually had no choice but to pull out.
People always talk about the absurd Fleche-Wallone podium in 1994, I've always found the results of Paris-Roubaix much more absurd, with the 1996 podium being the worst.
He had no problems hiring Virenque after his suspension and made a Paris-Tour winner out of him. Museuw was also given a place on the team after his retirement despite his recent involvement in the Landyut-affair.

Lefevres long time employment of Dirk Nachtergale and the rumours regarding the non-negative of Marc Lotz (Lefevre was believed to have tipped anti-doping authorities to get rid of Lotz) only adds to my disgust for this man.

Ah, I had forgotten this story about Lefevre. Total *******. Wasn't there another, similar story about him? Or am I thinking about Armstrong and Mayo? (Which is a rumor, nothing more, as far as I know.)
 
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filipo said:
Ah, I had forgotten this story about Lefevre. Total *******. Wasn't there another, similar story about him? Or am I thinking about Armstrong and Mayo? (Which is a rumor, nothing more, as far as I know.)

I still remember his moral outrage over FLandis' positive. I thought is was one of the single most disgusting displays of hypocrisy I have ever witnessed. I cannot stand the guy...but he never wrote a book titled "We might as well win" so I reserve my greatest disgust for that ***.
 
May 6, 2009
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I voted for Bruyneel. Rode for Saiz at ONCE and the all the evidence out there and testimonials and the high number of positive dope tests (if you include Boonen in this) by former riders of his (Hamilton, Landis, Beltran, Heras, Colom etc.) makes him the 'winner' of this poll. Lefevre 2nd and Riis 3rd for mine.

Never heard anything major against Sargeant and Madiot, although the latter had no problems help drive Bassons out of the sport by getting his team to assist USPS in chasing down their own rider at the 1999 TdF and never paid him his winnings from his stage win at the Dauphine (his only pro win) in the same year.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Ok - I had to google Tera Patrick, as I thought they may be some obscure DS on Rock Racing or something. I am enlightened - but have to make up my mind if I am grateful, I will post back my thoughts in a few hours or days.

@TFF - being a young eager student of law - would Bruyneel not be considered more a General Manager than a DS??

Either way - fwiw, my vote goes for Lefevre - as an ex rider and current DS his 'career' would be the longest.

Ummm, probably take you a few weeks if you gave it 24/7. She is dirty, that much is for certain.
 
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I kind of feel like Bruyneel is a crafty(er) version of Lefevre.

BTW, have you guys read 'A dog in a hat'? Joe Parkin gets to the nitty gritty on the whole Belgium pro cycling scene (from the recent past).
 
Jul 23, 2009
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craig1985 said:
I voted for Bruyneel. Rode for Saiz at ONCE and the all the evidence out there and testimonials and the high number of positive dope tests (if you include Boonen in this) by former riders of his (Hamilton, Landis, Beltran, Heras, Colom etc.) makes him the 'winner' of this poll. Lefevre 2nd and Riis 3rd for mine.

Never heard anything major against Sargeant and Madiot, although the latter had no problems help drive Bassons out of the sport by getting his team to assist USPS in chasing down their own rider at the 1999 TdF and never paid him his winnings from his stage win at the Dauphine (his only pro win) in the same year.

Not sure it is fair to state that riders who doped after leaving the team should be credited wit the DS that they "used" to ride for. If that was the case I am sure the same riders had multiple DSs in their careers prior positive testing that should get equal credit.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I kind of feel like Bruyneel is a crafty(er) version of Lefevre.

BTW, have you guys read 'A dog in a hat'? Joe Parkin gets to the nitty gritty on the whole Belgium pro cycling scene (from the recent past).

"Dog in a Hat" is very easy to read - entertaining and informative. My particular favorite was when the team was paid to race in two different locations on the same day - they were paid to start but not to finish so they killed the peloton in the first race for an hour or so then pulled out and drove to the second one.
 
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craig1985 said:
I voted for Bruyneel. Rode for Saiz at ONCE and the all the evidence out there and testimonials and the high number of positive dope tests (if you include Boonen in this) by former riders of his (Hamilton, Landis, Beltran, Heras, Colom etc.) makes him the 'winner' of this poll. Lefevre 2nd and Riis 3rd for mine.

Question: Why have so many ex-Bruyneel riders tested positive?

If the Science behind lance armstrong is pharmacology, as some suggest, then why would ex riders be busted if they know all the "secrets" to get around the dope testers?

IMO, it doesn't make armstrong or bruyneel look any dirtier when ex-riders get busted in their new teams.. Why would they use testable products, if, as many suggest, the US postal/disco squads had some big secret?.. Why wouldnt the ex riders keep using this secret and therefore never get busted?

ps - don't assume this is a fanboy question, i genuinely want to get some perspective on this, as i don't think ex-riders of LA and JB testing positive gives any clues as to the illedged doping in the JB run teams.

pps - i voted the banesto/caisse director, given he is happy to let valv-piti win the vuelta despite his suspension in one of the biggest cycling nations
 
Mountain Goat said:
Question: Why have so many ex-Bruyneel riders tested positive?

If the Science behind lance armstrong is pharmacology, as some suggest, then why would ex riders be busted if they know all the "secrets" to get around the dope testers?

IMO, it doesn't make armstrong or bruyneel look any dirtier when ex-riders get busted in their new teams.. Why would they use testable products, if, as many suggest, the US postal/disco squads had some big secret?.. Why wouldnt the ex riders keep using this secret and therefore never get busted?

ps - don't assume this is a fanboy question, i genuinely want to get some perspective on this, as i don't think ex-riders of LA and JB testing positive gives any clues as to the illedged doping in the JB run teams.

pps - i voted the banesto/caisse director, given he is happy to let valv-piti win the vuelta despite his suspension in one of the biggest cycling nations

You're forgetting the science of bribery...

Popovych is perhaps the greatest example of The Hog's abilities.

For some reason I think Riis/LeFevre are dirtier though.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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I think you could chuck in Neil Stephens who has been with Lib Seguros and now with Caisse, Vaughters who has been with USPS instead of Madiot or Sergant
 
Sep 25, 2009
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@mountain goat

it's easy, they never new the precise dosages and substances as they were 'taken care of'. not saying they could not suspect but most riders lack the background or interest to get into the details. it's a needles world. at least that's what it used to be. bru's system proved superior time and again. his knowledge of the right doc's, organizational skills and his connections made it work.

ps. i can't make up my mind as the criteria for the 'dirtiest' is rather vague.
 
Martinello said:
People always talk about the absurd Fleche-Wallone podium in 1994, I've always found the results of Paris-Roubaix much more absurd, with the 1996 podium being the worst.

Mapei under Lefevre also 1-2-3'd in 98 & 99, and Domo 1-2-3'd in 2001

I would say either him or JB. I hope Madiot wasn't a serious inclusion
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Best Cycling Trainer

I would say Eddy B. 84 USA Cycling Olympics coach. He knew transfusion I think Alexi Grewal was one of his specimens. Did he train Eric Heiden?
 
Apr 20, 2009
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craig1985 said:
I voted for Bruyneel. Rode for Saiz at ONCE and the all the evidence out there and testimonials and the high number of positive dope tests (if you include Boonen in this) by former riders of his (Hamilton, Landis, Beltran, Heras, Colom etc.) makes him the 'winner' of this poll.

I didn't vote, but i was thinking along the same lines. One other thing really nags at me about him. Vladimir Gusev was kicked off of Astana for irregular blood values, was vindicated by the Court of Arbitration for Sport and Astana had to pay Gusev, and yet he is still out of a job. I wonder what is going on with that?
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
Question: Why have so many ex-Bruyneel riders tested positive?

It is a very good question. I didn't vote for this very reason. To me the most plausible reason ex-Bruyneel riders test positive is that when they become team leaders they may feel that they have to go to the next level. Of course, there are other possible reasons and everybody knows what they are, but I am reticent to call anyone a doper or facillitator without a positive test or admission.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Martinello said:
my personal favourite is actually LeFevre. His track record is very long. He made such a mess out of Mapei that Squinzi eventually had no choice but to pull out.
People always talk about the absurd Fleche-Wallone podium in 1994, I've always found the results of Paris-Roubaix much more absurd, with the 1996 podium being the worst.
He had no problems hiring Virenque after his suspension and made a Paris-Tour winner out of him. Museuw was also given a place on the team after his retirement despite his recent involvement in the Landyut-affair.

Lefevres long time employment of Dirk Nachtergale and the rumours regarding the non-negative of Marc Lotz (Lefevre was believed to have tipped anti-doping authorities to get rid of Lotz) only adds to my disgust for this man.

That explains precisely why my vote goes to Lefévère.

Although Sergeant's usual pretending-to-care-deeply-about-clean-cycling
speeches are extremely annoying. At least Bruyneel and Lefévère don't pretend to not be corrupt. They just avoid the issue.