dirtiest cheater in cycling history?

[Cannibal72]

Re:

I feel Ricco is the one. I feel his plain stupidity let the side down for doping, so he wins. At least the others were fairly smart about it and don't get caught selling EPO in a McDonald's car park, or get taken to hospital due to doing a blood transfusion shoddily.

It's the motorbikes I feel sorry for. The blow to their self-esteem must have been immense.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

...
Köchli and LeMond also didn't like each other very much. They had quite a bad character clash, and their relationship didn't really recover from the '86 TdF.

Well obviously. That is implied by Lemond's move away from Koechli.
But the question is what the nature of their conflict was and whether it had to do with the two having a different view on cycling.

No, it was more to do with tactics etc. LeMond wanted a team to ride soley for him, Koechli wanted all out guerilla warfare. It is all in Slaying the Badger

....and that is why he went to PDM ?....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

...
Köchli and LeMond also didn't like each other very much. They had quite a bad character clash, and their relationship didn't really recover from the '86 TdF.

Well obviously. That is implied by Lemond's move away from Koechli.
But the question is what the nature of their conflict was and whether it had to do with the two having a different view on cycling.

....are we absolutely sure that was the direction of the move....what if there was a move of Koechli away from LeMond....

Cheers

 

[Tonton]

Here's another candidate...


Here we go again, a white jersey , like Fignon, LeMond , Pantani, Ullrich, Delion , Basso, Menchov, Contador, Schleck...you know. Bad company indeed...

Fancisco, like Mancebo, another white jersey. It can't be a coincidence.

And Rolland and Pinot, like the French don't dope?

A guy who spent a lot of time in South America. No one knew his whereabouts. Suspicious.

He's be doped...

That's how silly you are. From sniper who admitted to have never read a LeMond biography, to the sidekicks who bark with the rest. Piti-ful...

Cheers,

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

I think this thread illustrates what's wrong with the focus of so many of today's doping critics. It's not about anti-doping, it's about scandals and tabloid-style sensationalism. "The All-Time Dirtiest Doper!", "Big Name X tests Positive!", "I would really love to see Y caught!". "Check out the top 10 dopers of the past 10 year, number 6 really surprised me!".

It's the cycling variant of Hollywood Paparazzi Tabloidism; the secret desire for celebrity cyclists scandals.

That never happened to any other rider.

Other than Lance, which other riders caught for doping tried dragging down others to avoid detection ?

 

[chuckmicD]

Won't even be close. Nobody can touch the sinister and dark master.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Here's another candidate...


Here we go again, a white jersey , like Fignon, LeMond , Pantani, Ullrich, Delion , Basso, Menchov, Contador, Schleck...you know. Bad company indeed...

Fancisco, like Mancebo, another white jersey. It can't be a coincidence.

And Rolland and Pinot, like the French don't dope?

A guy who spent a lot of time in South America. No one knew his whereabouts. Suspicious.

He's be doped...

That's how silly you are. From sniper who admitted to have never read a LeMond biography, to the sidekicks who bark with the rest. Piti-ful...

Cheers,

Confirmed doper. Drank coca leaf tea in Ecuador. 7 degrees of bacon - introduced EPO to the peloton.

John Swanson

 

[Zam_Olyas]

not so dirty if their teeth are white

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
....are we absolutely sure that was the direction of the move....what if there was a move of Koechli away from LeMond....

good point.

 

[jens_attacks]

isidro nozal


for les connaiseurs.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re:

isidro nozal


for les connaiseurs.

I remember when he came to Liberty Seguros to race the Volta a Portugal. I had high hopes for him, but he was just a kid in the field of Hector Guerra, Candido The true tornado Barbosa 80kg climber, and such.

He was nothing more than a first in line domestic for the first few km. That guy, Sevilla, Santi Perez and others just can't keep up, in Portugal.

I bet Lemond could.....................

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah, I know why jens_attacks has named Gran Isidro, and it's a very astute pick.

 

[noddy69]

Re:

isidro nozal


for les connaiseurs.

Cut right to the heart of it with that one. I did say I don't class any dirtier than others just more successful but I retract. This one above all.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re:

Nah, I know why jens_attacks has named Gran Isidro, and it's a very astute pick.

Why? I don't know enough, it seems.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Nah, I know why jens_attacks has named Gran Isidro, and it's a very astute pick.

Why? I don't know enough, it seems.

Nozal was notorious for not showering or bathing during races, think it was for some superstition or because he feared cramping up if he softened his muscles up. If that race was a Grand Tour? Well, he'd just go without a shower for three weeks. Even if it was in southern Spain in a heatwave.

The good news is that as there's an odd number of riders on a GT team, hopefully nobody had to share a room with him in week 3. And that he was banned before there was any risk of him having to start the 2010 Giro with the sterrato stage.

 

[sartoris]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

 

[Tonton]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

Because this tread was started by the anti-Lemond after the Lemond thread was blocked...so that's where they troll now. It's not about doping: it's about throwing feces at GL, and to a lesser extend Merckx. Desperate people do desperate things. Integrity? None. Trolls.

 

[Maxiton]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

Because this tread was started by the anti-Lemond after the Lemond thread was blocked...so that's where they troll now. It's not about doping: it's about throwing feces at GL, and to a lesser extend Merckx. Desperate people do desperate things. Integrity? None. Trolls.

The idea that Merckx was any more a doper than his colleagues is without any basis that I can find, and the OP's argument for Merckx being "dirtiest player" is nonsensical. (Though apparently two or three people agree with him.)

I agree that vroom-vroom Froome and his whole team belong on this list, though. Vying with LA, in fact, and if they are using motors they probably deserve to win - the infamy award, that is.

I take all the votes for LeMond, or most of them, as protest votes by people who resent the fact that you can't sustain a discussion of LeMond here without a core group of his fans jumping in to derail it or disrupt it or get it shut down.

 

[Cloxxki]

Horner. How can anyone in the world pretend when it concerns him? Which grey guy did he chat up to to stay out of the line of fire somehow?
Keeping it under wraps while obviously being one of the worst, to me is the worst kind. Being the superstarr bike hero, insulting everyone's intelligence.

 

[MacRoadie]

Re:

Horner. How can anyone in the world pretend when it concerns him? Which grey guy did he chat up to to stay out of the line of fire somehow?
Keeping it under wraps while obviously being one of the worst, to me is the worst kind. Being the superstarr bike hero, insulting everyone's intelligence.

Hey, go easy on Chris. He scored a solid 18th place at San Dimas today...

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

Because this tread was started by the anti-Lemond after the Lemond thread was blocked...so that's where they troll now. It's not about doping: it's about throwing feces at GL, and to a lesser extend Merckx. Desperate people do desperate things. Integrity? None. Trolls.

Prove this or apologize like any rational, mature human would.

I don't even think that I posted here before this thread. I rarely read the clinic, because IMO all of the usual suspects getting ready to attack a particular set of cyclists while being hypocrites regarding others only reeks of irrational fanboyism.

I don't waste time with that crap.

 

[Hawkwood]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

Because this tread was started by the anti-Lemond after the Lemond thread was blocked...so that's where they troll now. It's not about doping: it's about throwing feces at GL, and to a lesser extend Merckx. Desperate people do desperate things. Integrity? None. Trolls.

The idea that Merckx was any more a doper than his colleagues is without any basis that I can find, and the OP's argument for Merckx being "dirtiest player" is nonsensical. (Though apparently two or three people agree with him.)

I agree that vroom-vroom Froome and his whole team belong on this list, though. Vying with LA, in fact, and if they are using motors they probably deserve to win - the infamy award, that is.

I take all the votes for LeMond, or most of them, as protest votes by people who resent the fact that you can't sustain a discussion of LeMond here without a core group of his fans jumping in to derail it or disrupt it or get it shut down.

And Anquetil with no votes, didn't he lead strikes against doping controls, and dodge a doping control after one of his hour record rides?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

the most terrible poll options ever. half don;t even belong there and the worst where guys less known like bruylandts and roberto pistore

 

[Maxiton]

Why is Froome not on the list? My vote goes for him and all his Sky colleagues.

Because this tread was started by the anti-Lemond after the Lemond thread was blocked...so that's where they troll now. It's not about doping: it's about throwing feces at GL, and to a lesser extend Merckx. Desperate people do desperate things. Integrity? None. Trolls.

The idea that Merckx was any more a doper than his colleagues is without any basis that I can find, and the OP's argument for Merckx being "dirtiest player" is nonsensical. (Though apparently two or three people agree with him.)

I agree that vroom-vroom Froome and his whole team belong on this list, though. Vying with LA, in fact, and if they are using motors they probably deserve to win - the infamy award, that is.

I take all the votes for LeMond, or most of them, as protest votes by people who resent the fact that you can't sustain a discussion of LeMond here without a core group of his fans jumping in to derail it or disrupt it or get it shut down.

And Anquetil with no votes, didn't he lead strikes against doping controls, and dodge a doping control after one of his hour record rides?

Well, in the end each of us has to account, or not, for his vote, but I will say this about Anquetil: he was no hypocrite. In fact, I think he found hypocrisy particularly offensive, and sincerely believed doping necessary in order to compete in grand tours. He saw the doping controls as a cynical ploy on the part of administrators who knew better, and recognized that it was the riders who would end up getting the short end of the stick.

In the debate about doping and how to fight it, whenever the subject of shortening grand tours is mooted there is a hue and cry among fans - many of whom are the the most outspoken against doping. Overlooked is the fact that grand tours and doping walk through history hand in hand, from the very beginning. Cutting the length of stages by about two-thirds would go a long way towards eliminating doping, assuming other things are done at the same time.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

the most terrible poll options ever. half don;t even belong there and the worst where guys less known like bruylandts and roberto pistore

I know i know, no Colombians