(Dis) respect for Le Maillot Jaune

[SafeBet]

How was the strength relationship between Riis and Ullrich in 1996? Was Riis clearly stronger than Ullrich at that point or was the situation a bit similar to Froome and Wiggins?

You mean the opposite.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Did you ever see a super-dom gesturing to his team leader to maintain pace on a summit finish like that, or even one contender doing it to another? Not even the hottest rivals behave like that. Disrespect hardly covers it.

I've seen support riders do rather more than gesture at their leader to hurry up. I've seen them attack and ride for the win. I'm sure Wiggins is happier to be temporarily dropped twice and have a hand waved at him than he would be to have Froome try to put him to the sword.

In the context of major races where a team mate has looked stronger than their leader, Froome has been pretty well behaved from a team orders point of view. He hasn't acted like a perfect, self-effacing, career sidekick, but he has, on each and every occasion, worked for Wiggins rather than try to ride off into the distance.

This is the second GT in succession where Froome has effectively given up a real shot at winning to ride for Wiggins. Wiggins would have to be something of an ingrate to take serious umbrage at being told to get a move on.

 

[Magnus]

How was the strength relationship between Riis and Ullrich in 1996? Was Riis clearly stronger than Ullrich at that point or was the situation a bit similar to Froome and Wiggins?

Riis was clearly stronger than Ullrich. In the mountain tt Riis finished 2nd, 37 seconds in front of Ullrich who finished 6th. In the Sestriere stage which Riis won, Ullrich finished 44 seconds behind Riis and 16-20 seconds behind Luc Leblanc, Virenque, Rominger, Indurain. In Hautacam Ullrich finished 1'33" behind Riis and 44" behind Virenque, Dufaux. So not only was he not able to follow Riis. He wasn't able to follow the main contenders either.

 

[hrotha]

Is it just me but is everyone ignoring that both riders have said that Froome was encoraging Wiggins because Wiggins had emotionally 'lost it' for a while as the enormity of everything had set in?

Just another chance to have a dig at Sky/Wiggins

Yeah, we're ignoring it because it sounds like first-class BS.

 

[Knutsen]

Tibetan Hat; you nailed it.

Watching cycling since late 90'ties, I have never seen anything like it. Total disrespect from Froome, and ****ing on all the unwritten rules in the peloton. It was really embarrassing to watch. So obvious gesturing at the cameras. You CAN **** on the rules, but then you go all in. And take the consequences if you fail.

I'm not shure about this guys future in Sky. Has he earned the the other riders respect to ride as a captain in future GT's?

Wiggins was saying good words about Froome after the stage, but I'm not shure what he say after watching the replay. It will be a interesting party in Paris..

And about the "easy" stage win. Taking on Valverde in a sprint?

 

[Publicus]

The Tour is not just about the climbs, and Wigans has been stronger in the ITTs so far, and on certain climbs has actually looked better than Froome. I wouldn't say Froome was definitely stronger without having seen them go on an actual duel. All we saw is that Froome has a better acceleration.

Between this and his comments towards Nibali, Froome is revealing himself to be a cocky ****.

What did he say to or about Nibbles? My first impression of him (from an interview after he won stage 7(?), was that he was fairly humble so I'm curious if my first impression was an incorrect one.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

And about the "easy" stage win. Taking on Valverde in a sprint?

I don't think it was an "easy" win, because of the time gap, but if he'd caught Valverde, who is normally the best sprinter would have been even less relevant than it was when he hammered Evans in a sprint to the line. If he'd caught Valverde that would necessarily mean that Valverde was cooked.

And as for the "going all in" part, I'm sure that Wiggins for one is a great deal happier with being waved at by someone who slowed and continued to work for him than he would have been with actually being seriously attacked.

 

[jmspinto]

.

That´s a fact: Froome is indeed superior to Wiggins!

Said that, I must say I don´t quite agree with these show off rides.

But most of all I have to say that this Tour is a total crap: I load the idea of a good ITT rider that hanged on the mountains due to his superior team is going to win the most important cycling race in the world! I just hate it: to have 100 kms ITT on the Tour is a weird idea.

Years ago, when a weak rider like Charteau won the polka dot shirt they changed the rules, after this Tour, a lot must be changed on the Tour. Imagine that block without his super team!..

 

[ElChingon]

The only hierarchy in cycling is that of the strongest.

Indeed! Had Froome made Wiggins earn it we'd of had a very exciting and dramatic race! It might if killed the team but hey we would of won for a change, as in a super over the top tour.

Tibetan Hat]

Did you watch la Vuelta in 2002?

 

[enCYCLOpedia]

As if that exaggerated radio response up La Toussuire wasn't bad enough.

Can't believe Froome's chutzpah. Did you ever see a super-dom gesturing to his team leader to maintain pace on a summit finish like that, or even one contender doing it to another? Not even the hottest rivals behave like that. Disrespect hardly covers it. And so obviously done for the television cameras too. Why go for a quick look, a nod, one word 'stay?' or 'go?' with your team leader, when you can wave your hand around for all the world to see?
Sure it's an unusual GC situation but he knew Wiggins couldn't assist in the attack, so that behaviour had to be all about embarrassing his own leader (who was actually still having a great ride for a TT man!).

Froome would have made what, 20 or 30 seconds on Wiggins in that last kilometre? Probably less time than Wiggins will take out of him in the TT, and for that matter less than Froome will take out of Nibbles too.

And you know, Froome's lucky he starts 3 minutes ahead on Saturday, too far for Wiggins to catch him, because it'd would have been nice to see what sort of hand gesture Bradders could have offered Froome had he chance of passing him. I can think of a one-handed one that would suffice.

Say what you will about Wiggins, at least he's an honest racer. There's no honour in how Froome dramatises on the bike, nor in the weasels words he issues to the press. And in this sport honour matters a lot more than it does in any other.

Great Post. But I can also understand Froome; you only get one chance in life to become the first Brit to win the Tour, perhaps to become a Tour champion at all. In 20 years, nobody will remember how it was won, just as nobody will remember that you came second. To think you have that chance denied by an inferior rider and "team orders" must be frustrating. On balance, I actually think Wiggins is the most complete rider this year, and that he would have won the tour regardless. But in the mountains, it's plain to see that they don't let the best man win.

 

[BillytheKid]

Armstrong's contempt for Contador in 2009? If Froome had ridden off, that would have been far more serious.

Froome already road away once in the Alps. To wave at him like that was something like scolding a child.

 

[Mshengu]

Froome is a master of pain but yeah he should have just kept a good tempo alongside Wiggins until the finish line. He should play his role and honor his obligation. Later in the Vuelta he will havehis chance to shine. There should be no regrets for him if he stays sharp and is able to come back next year ( hopefully in a new team ) and be in form. As for the TTs, I think he is yet to improve a lil bit.

 

[9000ft]

Funny how so many complain about a boring tour, but let something actually interesting happen and the tongues are clucking away.

 

[gatete]

In all fairness I can agree with some of the people who says domestiques shouldn't embarrased team leaders specially if wearing the MJ, but then the question is why they shouldn't? well simple because they're weaker than the team leader and they're there to support, follow order and do the job they're hired/paid to do. Having said that this may or may not apply to Froome, I can't really say Wiggo was superior hence the argument is not as simple to this domestique, and that's the beauty of it I've only heard few instances where domestiques have become team leaders and they're beatiful to remember becuase in esence we're talking about great riders: Greg in 86, Ulle in 97, Contador in 07.

So the argument applies almost all the time but only when great riders come along and creates this animosity is what I think is great to the sport.

 

[ElChingon]

In all fairness I can agree with some of the people who says domestiques shouldn't embarrased team leaders specially if wearing the MJ, but then the question is why they shouldn't? well simple because they're weaker than the team leader and they're there to support, follow order and do the job they're hired/paid to do. Having said that this may or may not apply to Froome, I can't really say Wiggo was superior hence the argument is not as simple to this domestique, and that's the beauty of it I've only heard few instances where domestiques have become team leaders and they're beatiful to remember becuase in esence we're talking about great riders: Greg in 86, Ulle in 97, Contador in 07.

So the argument applies almost all the time but only when great riders come along and creates this animosity is what I think is great to the sport.

Shouldn't it be Team Leaders shouldn't embarrass themselves? If they know a fellow teammate is better than them they should allow the teammate succeed, otherwise they will look like total tools when their domestique is out freewheeling as he waits for the supposed team leader. Imagine the high light clips where Froome is going to be shown waiting for Wiggins, yea that's going to get everyone excited

Its hardly representative of the best rider in the race when others are waiting for them, now is it? If Wiggins wants to be seen as the best in the race then he has to take control of the race for himself not through a teammate waiting for him.

 

[Benedict XVI]

I don't understand the hate for Froome. Are you blind or stupid? Froome was a perfect team mate for Wig the entire Tour, he deserved his stage win like nobody else. He could get it.
All Wiggins or teams director had to do is to say "go for it!". Instead, we got what we got..I hope Wiggins will suck in ITT

 

[moonstation2000]

It would have been a lot classier for Wigs to let Froome go. Froome was no threat at that point and Wigs had nothing to lose, unless he's still scared of what Froome can do this late in the race, doubtful.

If anything Wigs is bringing any bad press upon himself for forcing Froome to stay with him when it's not necessary.

If you want to see a bad domestique then look at the tack stage where TJ left Cadel at the top of the hill with a puncture.

 

[BroDeal]

This is just like team orders in Formula 1. Wins are given to undeserving teammates.

Froome is the strongest. He is being cheated out of a win.

It is phony racing that cheats the fans.

 

[abbaskip]

It's just the frustration of constantly having the shackles on him. How would you feel if you were being prevented from a stage win and riding with the handbrake on like at La Toussuire. I just don't see why Sky did'nt leave him go today. All of the other rivals like Nibali, VDB and TJVG were behind. Then in the TT leave them go straight out head to head. You would still have a Sky winner of the Tour at the end of the day.

This. I was dumbfounded. Wiggins is two minutes up, and his rivals have been dropped. Worst case scenario is that they catch back up, and he finishes with them - still 2 minutes up. Froome rides away and possibly wins the stage, and guarantees a Sky 1-2.

I couldn't see any sense at all in Froome not being allowed to go it alone. And all they did was showed that the cleary don't want Wiggins to be dropped by Froome - but this looked even worse.

 

[abbaskip]

As I stated before, it's like Sky is playing racist, just like they want the pure British breed to win the Tour for the first time.

What they did during this Tour really vilify the entire sport.

Yeah, I've wondered this myself. They talk about Froome being "British", but I'm sure they don't want to "share" the victory with Kenya. They see BW as the good All-British boy, coming up through the British program from a young age and coming good.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

What did he say to or about Nibbles? My first impression of him (from an interview after he won stage 7(?), was that he was fairly humble so I'm curious if my first impression was an incorrect one.

Nothing much. The only thing he said about Nibali is that they knew he wasn't going anywhere with his attacks on stage 16. I don't get what the controversy is about... he was just being honest.

 

[the asian]

SKY should have let Froome go on and told him to try to win the stage as gratitude for his service. It would have made both parties happy.Wiggins was not loosing time to his rivals, so there wasn't any danger.
That said, I'm interested to see how he performs on another team, preferably like Garmin.

 

[Teddy Boom]

Watching cycling since late 90'ties, I have never seen anything like it.

I didn't think of it till you said this, but there was Vino when he cracked his own team in the Giro 2010 TTT

 

[CobbleStoner]

nobody remembers LeMond v Hinault?
If Valverde was not up the road, Sky's DS's would have let Froome go win the stage, but that wasn't the situation. stupid to let him go if he didn't get the stage win, and it wasn't guaranteed that he would have caught Valverde. the seconds gained by Wiggo with Froome's help are way more valuable, it's the TdF, the yellow jersey means everything, another stage win for Sky doesn't mean ****.
the DS's did the right thing
Froomey did the right thing, his job
cycling is a complex sport that a lot of people really don't understand

 

[LugHugger]

Is it just me but is everyone ignoring that both riders have said that Froome was encoraging Wiggins because Wiggins had emotionally 'lost it' for a while as the enormity of everything had set in?

Just another chance to have a dig at Sky/Wiggins

Precisely. But why let the truth stop some posters fantastic fantasies?