Disc brakes on road bikes...

[LugHugger]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure what your point is? What has that got to do with disc brake trials in the UCI pro peloton...?

To show that it is possible to be cut from a rotor.

...I never said anyone couldn't cut themselves on a rotor (although there are videos out there of people stopping a spinning wheel by putting their hand on a rotor and not causing any damage) but that in the case of Ventoso, it was likely caused by a chain ring. I can google up some chain ring injuries for you if you like....?

Chainring injuries usually have some greasy teeth marks around the wound. But if you want to google chainring injuries who am I to stop you.

When was the last time you saw a greasy chainring on a pro bike?

A. 150kms into a Paris Roubaix run on still wet roads

 

[Tim B]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure what your point is? What has that got to do with disc brake trials in the UCI pro peloton...?

To show that it is possible to be cut from a rotor.

...I never said anyone couldn't cut themselves on a rotor (although there are videos out there of people stopping a spinning wheel by putting their hand on a rotor and not causing any damage) but that in the case of Ventoso, it was likely caused by a chain ring. I can google up some chain ring injuries for you if you like....?

Chainring injuries usually have some greasy teeth marks around the wound. But if you want to google chainring injuries who am I to stop you.

When was the last time you saw a greasy chainring on a pro bike?

A. 150kms into a Paris Roubaix run on still wet roads

Maybe dirty, but not greasy

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure what your point is? What has that got to do with disc brake trials in the UCI pro peloton...?

To show that it is possible to be cut from a rotor.

...I never said anyone couldn't cut themselves on a rotor (although there are videos out there of people stopping a spinning wheel by putting their hand on a rotor and not causing any damage) but that in the case of Ventoso, it was likely caused by a chain ring. I can google up some chain ring injuries for you if you like....?

Chainring injuries usually have some greasy teeth marks around the wound. But if you want to google chainring injuries who am I to stop you.

When was the last time you saw a greasy chainring on a pro bike?

A. 150kms into a Paris Roubaix run on still wet roads

Maybe dirty, but not greasy

Oh please..you get your wish, discs for road racing bikes will be 'tested' again. Even tho the vast majority of the guys that use them, the racers, either say not needed or 'so what'. It is driven by the manufacturers, mostly by spam. But you go fawn over them, in spite of being heavier, more expensive and more complicated.

I'm just glad, now that I don't own a shop anymore I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on em
-use them

 

[Tim B]

Re: Re:

Oh please..you get your wish, discs for road racing bikes will be 'tested' again. Even tho the vast majority of the guys that use them, the racers, either say not needed or 'so what'. It is driven by the manufacturers, mostly by spam. But you go fawn over them, in spite of being heavier, more expensive and more complicated.

I'm just glad, now that I don't own a shop anymore I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on em
-use them

Fawn over them? Really?
I never said I wanted disc brakes, I never said disc brakes should be in the Pro Peloton.
All I said was a) the trial is back on again, and b) Ventoso's injury being caused by a disc is unlikely. Whether a disc is capable of causing an injury (as are many other things on a bike) wasn't the issue.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Welcome to the Forum.
Nice First Post

 

[Bustedknuckle]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Glad you like them, and 2 of the 3 bike part makers and their legion of marketeers, look for 'consumers' like you. They found you. Again, the 'real' pros, the guys in the peloton, ya know, they guys that ride and race bikes for a living, are asked by the gear makers all the time for feedback and possible improvements, and they seldom, to never say, 'better brakes'..Even the big boys in the Euro 'Cross arena mostly use calipers.

But yer bike, go buy and use them. Not me.

Literally a few minutes means literally 3 minutes and that's balderdash.

 

[Master50]

Re: Re:

tim the injury was on his right leg. spend a bit more time with the pictures. they are a bit deceptive but it is his right leg.

Errr... No, it's definitely his left leg.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12973607_10156809485095611_263442435071413915_o.jpg

Ok another picture I have not seen and yes that is a left leg? Now I really have a problem with this being a disk brake cause. It is his shoes that prove it for me. Now I have to go back and find the photos that had me believing it was his right?
A chainring could cause this but his wounds would have had oil or grease on them? clearly a left leg wound means the disk brake riding person had to have turned around. a rear wheel disk would have been protected by frame?
What crazy circumstances would cause that on a left leg if it really was a disk? Ventoso described it more like a stop than a crash?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Glad you like them, and 2 of the 3 bike part makers and their legion of marketeers, look for 'consumers' like you. They found you. Again, the 'real' pros, the guys in the peloton, ya know, they guys that ride and race bikes for a living, are asked by the gear makers all the time for feedback and possible improvements, and they seldom, to never say, 'better brakes'..Even the big boys in the Euro 'Cross arena mostly use calipers.

But yer bike, go buy and use them. Not me.

Literally a few minutes means literally 3 minutes and that's balderdash.

It takes marketing to sell stuff, imagine that. I don't need to be sold on road/cx disc because I've been happily conforming to the conspiracy for almost a decade. It's a better system, and I don't need a pro who says whatever their sponsor wants them to say to tell me what works or what doesn't. I know disc brakes aren't heavy, expensive, complicated, or whatever. Campy will most likely make it 3 for 3 by the end of this year. Which solves my Record/TRP problem. Recheck your World Cup CX facts. I watched every single race of the 15-16 season and I'd say it was a 50/50 split between disc and canti.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

It is the inevitable future. Even Lance has switched to discs.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

tim the injury was on his right leg. spend a bit more time with the pictures. they are a bit deceptive but it is his right leg.

Errr... No, it's definitely his left leg.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12973607_10156809485095611_263442435071413915_o.jpg

Ok another picture I have not seen and yes that is a left leg? Now I really have a problem with this being a disk brake cause. It is his shoes that prove it for me. Now I have to go back and find the photos that had me believing it was his right?
A chainring could cause this but his wounds would have had oil or grease on them? clearly a left leg wound means the disk brake riding person had to have turned around. a rear wheel disk would have been protected by frame?
What crazy circumstances would cause that on a left leg if it really was a disk? Ventoso described it more like a stop than a crash?

Oil or grease on a pro bike during a race? I wouldn't think there would be very much of it to be honest and a spinning cassette could do that kind of damage without leaving behind much mess I would think. I'm less convinced it was a chainring. I think it would need to be spinning and I can't see how it would happen and both riders would stay up if we believe the description of the accident (but not the cause).

Those are the same questions I cannot come up with answers to. I'm certain that kind of injury requires something spinning under load. A front disc of a rider facing the wrong way is out, as is the rear disc. I can't possibly fathom how he gets his leg around a spinning rear wheel, does that to his knee and doesn't even get a hint of tyre burn on the inside of his thigh. I can't actually see how he does it in the first place even with tyre burn and stays upright. Even if he did manage to get his leg round there his front wheel would be tangled up with the riders cranks, I'm not even sure it's possible to do without a massive crash of wheels, cranks, forks etc. Going into a crashed rider the wheels wouldn't be under load so I really can't see it doing that kind of damage.


Honestly, I'm now pretty much 100% certain it can't have been a disc. Eye witnesses are terribly unreliable, especially ones involved in the actual incident and that is literally all we have to go on.

I'm still not convinced that discs are needed in the peloton. I think they're a brilliant option for almost every recreational rider/sportive rider etc. out there and would recommend them to anyone who isn't racing. I just think the pros should ride what they want to ride.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Glad you like them, and 2 of the 3 bike part makers and their legion of marketeers, look for 'consumers' like you. They found you. Again, the 'real' pros, the guys in the peloton, ya know, they guys that ride and race bikes for a living, are asked by the gear makers all the time for feedback and possible improvements, and they seldom, to never say, 'better brakes'..Even the big boys in the Euro 'Cross arena mostly use calipers.

But yer bike, go buy and use them. Not me.

Literally a few minutes means literally 3 minutes and that's balderdash.

It takes marketing to sell stuff, imagine that. I don't need to be sold on road/cx disc because I've been happily conforming to the conspiracy for almost a decade. It's a better system, and I don't need a pro who says whatever their sponsor wants them to say to tell me what works or what doesn't. I know disc brakes aren't heavy, expensive, complicated, or whatever. Campy will most likely make it 3 for 3 by the end of this year. Which solves my Record/TRP problem. Recheck your World Cup CX facts. I watched every single race of the 15-16 season and I'd say it was a 50/50 split between disc and canti.

Their sponsor would want they to say, 'discs now, my brakes are awful!!!', but ya know, they don't say that. The sponsors(and mechanics-internal wet brake lines-yummy) WANT to sell this junque, NOW. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday..the pro peloton is balking and it drives the sram/shimano people buggers. Campagnolo just smiles.

The huge advantage of discs are in wet, sloppy, muddy(they came fro MTBs, righto?) and only 50-50??
I'll give ya 50-50 but 50-50? Why not more? Maybe heavier(gotta carry those things around)., pads go to zero really fast in sandy conditions, lots are poor when get really dirty? Pads go away, lever goes to handlebar, brakes=zero..great system.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Glad you like them, and 2 of the 3 bike part makers and their legion of marketeers, look for 'consumers' like you. They found you. Again, the 'real' pros, the guys in the peloton, ya know, they guys that ride and race bikes for a living, are asked by the gear makers all the time for feedback and possible improvements, and they seldom, to never say, 'better brakes'..Even the big boys in the Euro 'Cross arena mostly use calipers.

But yer bike, go buy and use them. Not me.

Literally a few minutes means literally 3 minutes and that's balderdash.

It takes marketing to sell stuff, imagine that. I don't need to be sold on road/cx disc because I've been happily conforming to the conspiracy for almost a decade. It's a better system, and I don't need a pro who says whatever their sponsor wants them to say to tell me what works or what doesn't. I know disc brakes aren't heavy, expensive, complicated, or whatever. Campy will most likely make it 3 for 3 by the end of this year. Which solves my Record/TRP problem. Recheck your World Cup CX facts. I watched every single race of the 15-16 season and I'd say it was a 50/50 split between disc and canti.

Their sponsor would want they to say, 'discs now, my brakes are awful!!!', but ya know, they don't say that. The sponsors(and mechanics-internal wet brake lines-yummy) WANT to sell this junque, NOW. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday..the pro peloton is balking and it drives the sram/shimano people buggers. Campagnolo just smiles.

The huge advantage of discs are in wet, sloppy, muddy(they came fro MTBs, righto?) and only 50-50??
I'll give ya 50-50 but 50-50? Why not more? Maybe heavier(gotta carry those things around)., pads go to zero really fast in sandy conditions, lots are poor when get really dirty? Pads go away, lever goes to handlebar, brakes=zero..great system.

You're right, the Euro pros aren't keen on having them in the peloton mostly for safety during crashes, as witnessed in Roubaix. BUT, that's not to say there aren't many who take my side and know from experience that disc is a better system. There's quite a bit of reading material out there about pro cyclists either testing or owning disc equipped bikes that actually like them. Of course that's kinda weird since you deem pros as having the final say. Listen, disc brakes didn't exactly take mtb by storm either, it actually took a few years for complete immersion. Same growing pains are literally happening now for road & CX.

"Campagnolo just smiles"

Question is; are you still gonna be smiling when Campy releases their hydro disc this year at Interbike? I know I will!

That reference to the brake pad issue and sand was the famous weather and flooding incident that happened at Louisville Worlds 3 years ago. Have you heard anything about that since in any CX news? Nope. If sand was remotely still an issue Euro pros would not be taking a single disc bike to Koksijde, but they do. BTW, it took all of maybe 2 weeks after the debacle at Louisville for manufactures redesign venting cutouts for such conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that event was the catalyst for Sram's Cleensweep rotor as per what Jeremy Powers was talking about after that weekend. Ok so we're agreed that the 15-16 World Cup was about 50/50 disc. I can count on one hand how many were on disc the prior two. That ratio jumped in a hurry! If discs are so heavy what business does JPow or Mathieu van der Poel have stepping up to a podium place pretty much every race they enter? Arrrgggh! How can they slog those boat anchors for brakes around?!!?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

"Too heavy"??? For the last couple years there's been a handful of disc road race bikes come to market that are at or below the UCI weight limit. Sure, if we're just comparing brake systems rim calipers are lighter, but it's the sum of the parts that count. Can't remember the last time I threw a leg over just brakes to go ride a bike. Unless you're in the very serious business of saving watts as a sponsored PT rider I'm not sure that a few grams matters during your local Cat 3 square downtown crit with pocket change for prize money, or the Strava segment on a multi use path. "Too expensive"??? Difference between top line brakes for rim or disc is about $100-$150, so it begs the question; how much was your bike? "Too complicated"??? Happy to put in a few extra minutes (because that's literally all it takes) of dialing in what is ultimately a better brake system.

Glad you like them, and 2 of the 3 bike part makers and their legion of marketeers, look for 'consumers' like you. They found you. Again, the 'real' pros, the guys in the peloton, ya know, they guys that ride and race bikes for a living, are asked by the gear makers all the time for feedback and possible improvements, and they seldom, to never say, 'better brakes'..Even the big boys in the Euro 'Cross arena mostly use calipers.

But yer bike, go buy and use them. Not me.

Literally a few minutes means literally 3 minutes and that's balderdash.

It takes marketing to sell stuff, imagine that. I don't need to be sold on road/cx disc because I've been happily conforming to the conspiracy for almost a decade. It's a better system, and I don't need a pro who says whatever their sponsor wants them to say to tell me what works or what doesn't. I know disc brakes aren't heavy, expensive, complicated, or whatever. Campy will most likely make it 3 for 3 by the end of this year. Which solves my Record/TRP problem. Recheck your World Cup CX facts. I watched every single race of the 15-16 season and I'd say it was a 50/50 split between disc and canti.

Their sponsor would want they to say, 'discs now, my brakes are awful!!!', but ya know, they don't say that. The sponsors(and mechanics-internal wet brake lines-yummy) WANT to sell this junque, NOW. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday..the pro peloton is balking and it drives the sram/shimano people buggers. Campagnolo just smiles.

The huge advantage of discs are in wet, sloppy, muddy(they came fro MTBs, righto?) and only 50-50??
I'll give ya 50-50 but 50-50? Why not more? Maybe heavier(gotta carry those things around)., pads go to zero really fast in sandy conditions, lots are poor when get really dirty? Pads go away, lever goes to handlebar, brakes=zero..great system.

You're right, the Euro pros aren't keen on having them in the peloton mostly for safety during crashes, as witnessed in Roubaix. BUT, that's not to say there aren't many who take my side and know from experience that disc is a better system. There's quite a bit of reading material out there about pro cyclists either testing or owning disc equipped bikes that actually like them. Of course that's kinda weird since you deem pros as having the final say. Listen, disc brakes didn't exactly take mtb by storm either, it actually took a few years for complete immersion. Same growing pains are literally happening now for road & CX.

"Campagnolo just smiles"

Question is; are you still gonna be smiling when Campy releases their hydro disc this year at Interbike? I know I will!

That reference to the brake pad issue and sand was the famous weather and flooding incident that happened at Louisville Worlds 3 years ago. Have you heard anything about that since in any CX news? Nope. If sand was remotely still an issue Euro pros would not be taking a single disc bike to Koksijde, but they do. BTW, it took all of maybe 2 weeks after the debacle at Louisville for manufactures redesign venting cutouts for such conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that event was the catalyst for Sram's Cleensweep rotor as per what Jeremy Powers was talking about after that weekend. Ok so we're agreed that the 15-16 World Cup was about 50/50 disc. I can count on one hand how many were on disc the prior two. That ratio jumped in a hurry! If discs are so heavy what business does JPow or Mathieu van der Poel have stepping up to a podium place pretty much every race they enter? Arrrgggh! How can they slog those boat anchors for brakes around?!!?

Because they are strong and like LA and shimano, are PAID to use these things. Why or why didn't Spam figure out the rotor gig BEFORE their debacle at Louisville? Ahh, I see,using the consumer to beta test their junque. I guess it doesn't get cold in Chicago, to see their disc brakes go away..hello recall.

Ratio jumped in a hurry? Disc brakes on bicycles have been around for how long? 15 years. Same with tubeless, another MTB 'innovation' trying to find it's legs in the road market.

I saw the Campag disc prototype, it'll happen, for good or ill. Good for bike shops who get to bleed these things for $25 a pop. Good for bike shops who get $ for all the unique fittings, gadgets, gizmos because disc brakes, even tho they work the same, aren't exactly inter compatible(put a shimano rotor on a Spam lever? nope. Put a shimano dual pivot brake on a Campag lever?-yup, all day).

Yes, discs are stronger with better modulation just like a 15 pound bike climbs better than a 18 pound bike and a TT rig with $5000 aero wheels is faster than a road bike. But necessary? Cannot ride w/o them? Must have now? Nope for the vast majority of WE warriors who ride their dry, flat, 25 miler on Sunday. But that guy will show up with that 'wunderbike', the bike makers and marketeers will smile..and the bike will fall over w/o a front wheel in, push the lever in, bleed fluid all over the place, and the guy will not ride but go home. Great design.

 

[veganrob]

Right on. This whole road disc brake is being marketed to the consumer. This marketing method is not how it usually works. The pro's don't want it so we'll just go to the sapp customer. We'll even let them do the testing. Sram. People are so gullible and willing to part with their money, and they won't be a lick faster either.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Right on. This whole road disc brake is being marketed to the consumer. This marketing method is not how it usually works. The pro's don't want it so we'll just go to the sapp customer. We'll even let them do the testing. Sram. People are so gullible and willing to part with their money, and they won't be a lick faster either.

Untrue. Many road pros do want, own, and have tested disc for years now. Those that have the experience fully recognize it's a better system because there are plainly obvious terrain and weather scenarios where having better brakes is faster. Don't have to be a pro cyclist to figure that out. The only the two things holding all this back is safety during mass pileups and wheel changes, and you better believe that they're working this out as we speak. You guys are this mad about a bike part messing up road bikes? Just wait!

James Huang the former Tech Ed here has written some pretty scathing articles that call total BS on forum commenters propagating old wives' tales and urban myth about the how's and why's disc is infiltrating the road scene, and this grand marketing conspiracy behind it. Don't try and search for them, you'll only get more furious.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Right on. This whole road disc brake is being marketed to the consumer. This marketing method is not how it usually works. The pro's don't want it so we'll just go to the sapp customer. We'll even let them do the testing. Sram. People are so gullible and willing to part with their money, and they won't be a lick faster either.

Untrue. Many road pros do want, own, and have tested disc for years now. Those that have the experience fully recognize it's a better system because there are plainly obvious terrain and weather scenarios where having better brakes is faster. Don't have to be a pro cyclist to figure that out. The only the two things holding all this back is safety during mass pileups and wheel changes, and you better believe that they're working this out as we speak. You guys are this mad about a bike part messing up road bikes? Just wait!

James Huang the former Tech Ed here has written some pretty scathing articles that call total BS on forum commenters propagating old wives' tales and urban myth about the how's and why's disc is infiltrating the road scene, and this grand marketing conspiracy behind it. Don't try and search for them, you'll only get more furious.

I don't care. Don't have them, will never have them, don't have to sell them and don't have to work on them. BUT like threadless, compact frames, seat masts, 44mm headtubes, tubeless, ceramic bearings, now wet disc brakes, thru-axles(standard??)..lets not forget the absolutely silly BB 'standard'..the goats are loose. The bike biz has been flat for years, now bike makers, who add 3% in sales, take 3% from somebody else so they gotta do some sort of new and whizbang...or adios. I know, lets create a whole new niche!. And then make a purpose driven bike for that! Call it 'gravel grinder', yep, that's it..GRoad bike, what silliness.

You don't think marketeers are behind the road disc brake thing? Think again. Spam is betting the farm on it. This gig with the UCI smacked them hard, along with their numerous recalls. Anybody that uses their stuff is being a trumpista. Being played for a sucker.

I know the 'Angry Asian', BTW. He's a little 'different' when you just talk to him in the shop. Very nice guy, beautiful new baby, BTW.

Good article here, nice things said about James..and the truth behind 'product reviews'. I'm sure some on Spam discs can be found...

https://tomdemerly.com/2016/04/28/confessions-of-a-bike-reviewer-why-i-lied-for-39-years

 

[blutto]

Right on. This whole road disc brake is being marketed to the consumer. This marketing method is not how it usually works. The pro's don't want it so we'll just go to the sapp customer. We'll even let them do the testing. Sram. People are so gullible and willing to part with their money, and they won't be a lick faster either.

Untrue. Many road pros do want, own, and have tested disc for years now. Those that have the experience fully recognize it's a better system because there are plainly obvious terrain and weather scenarios where having better brakes is faster. Don't have to be a pro cyclist to figure that out. The only the two things holding all this back is safety during mass pileups and wheel changes, and you better believe that they're working this out as we speak. You guys are this mad about a bike part messing up road bikes? Just wait!

James Huang the former Tech Ed here has written some pretty scathing articles that call total BS on forum commenters propagating old wives' tales and urban myth about the how's and why's disc is infiltrating the road scene, and this grand marketing conspiracy behind it. Don't try and search for them, you'll only get more furious.

I don't care. Don't have them, will never have them, don't have to sell them and don't have to work on them. BUT like threadless, compact frames, seat masts, 44mm headtubes, tubeless, ceramic bearings, now wet disc brakes, thru-axles(standard??)..lets not forget the absolutely silly BB 'standard'..the goats are loose. The bike biz has been flat for years, now bike makers, who add 3% in sales, take 3% from somebody else so they gotta do some sort of new and whizbang...or adios. I know, lets create a whole new niche!. And then make a purpose driven bike for that! Call it 'gravel grinder', yep, that's it..GRoad bike, what silliness.

You don't think marketeers are behind the road disc brake thing? Think again. Spam is betting the farm on it. This gig with the UCI smacked them hard, along with their numerous recalls. Anybody that uses their stuff is being a trumpista. Being played for a sucker.

I know the 'Angry Asian', BTW. He's a little 'different' when you just talk to him in the shop. Very nice guy, beautiful new baby, BTW.

Good article here, nice things said about James..and the truth behind 'product reviews'. I'm sure some on Spam discs can be found...

https://tomdemerly.com/2016/04/28/confessions-of-a-bike-reviewer-why-i-lied-for-39-years

....that was an absolutely smashing article....should be read by all who play in our sandbox...and thank you for being such a wonderful full blown curmudgeon....my go to mechanic is a lot like you , we have argued about a lot of stuff for decades, sometimes quite vigourously, but at the end of the day he has never steered me wrong....

....keep up the good work, we luv you for it, we really do...

Cheers

...funny but in another chapter of my life I sell products into a hobby/industry I dearly luv ( not unlike cycling actually )....long story short, over the last few decades a fawning and bought and paid for press has created a product base that is driving this once wonderful and fun hobby off a cliff....we used to strive for function, now we accumulate shiny baubles with only a passing nod to function ( so we are now left with a room mainly full of posers and all the real enthusiasts have run away to pursue something more real, something more than just faux function dressed in a pretty package... )...

 

[jmdirt]

Ratio jumped in a hurry? Disc brakes on bicycles have been around for how long? 15 years. Same with tubeless, another MTB 'innovation' trying to find it's legs in the road market.


That just makes you sound jealous (I don't blame you ). Tubeless is a far superior way to roll on dirt, and dang good on the road. I'll stop there so this thread doesn't get completely hi-jacked. Disc brakes and tubeless weren't dirt innovations, they have been around for much longer than that.

 

[Benotti69]

Right on. This whole road disc brake is being marketed to the consumer. This marketing method is not how it usually works. The pro's don't want it so we'll just go to the sapp customer. We'll even let them do the testing. Sram. People are so gullible and willing to part with their money, and they won't be a lick faster either.

Untrue. Many road pros do want, own, and have tested disc for years now. Those that have the experience fully recognize it's a better system because there are plainly obvious terrain and weather scenarios where having better brakes is faster. Don't have to be a pro cyclist to figure that out. The only the two things holding all this back is safety during mass pileups and wheel changes, and you better believe that they're working this out as we speak. You guys are this mad about a bike part messing up road bikes? Just wait!

James Huang the former Tech Ed here has written some pretty scathing articles that call total BS on forum commenters propagating old wives' tales and urban myth about the how's and why's disc is infiltrating the road scene, and this grand marketing conspiracy behind it. Don't try and search for them, you'll only get more furious.

I don't care. Don't have them, will never have them, don't have to sell them and don't have to work on them. BUT like threadless, compact frames, seat masts, 44mm headtubes, tubeless, ceramic bearings, now wet disc brakes, thru-axles(standard??)..lets not forget the absolutely silly BB 'standard'..the goats are loose. The bike biz has been flat for years, now bike makers, who add 3% in sales, take 3% from somebody else so they gotta do some sort of new and whizbang...or adios. I know, lets create a whole new niche!. And then make a purpose driven bike for that! Call it 'gravel grinder', yep, that's it..GRoad bike, what silliness.

You don't think marketeers are behind the road disc brake thing? Think again. Spam is betting the farm on it. This gig with the UCI smacked them hard, along with their numerous recalls. Anybody that uses their stuff is being a trumpista. Being played for a sucker.

I know the 'Angry Asian', BTW. He's a little 'different' when you just talk to him in the shop. Very nice guy, beautiful new baby, BTW.

Good article here, nice things said about James..and the truth behind 'product reviews'. I'm sure some on Spam discs can be found...

https://tomdemerly.com/2016/04/28/confessions-of-a-bike-reviewer-why-i-lied-for-39-years

....that was an absolutely smashing article....should be read by all who play in our sandbox...and thank you for being such a wonderful full blown curmudgeon....my go to mechanic is a lot like you , we have argued about a lot of stuff for decades, sometimes quite vigourously, but at the end of the day he has never steered me wrong....

....keep up the good work, we luv you for it, we really do...

Cheers

...<snipped>...

^plus one.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Ratio jumped in a hurry? Disc brakes on bicycles have been around for how long? 15 years. Same with tubeless, another MTB 'innovation' trying to find it's legs in the road market.


That just makes you sound jealous (I don't blame you ). Tubeless is a far superior way to roll on dirt, and dang good on the road. I'll stop there so this thread doesn't get completely hi-jacked. Disc brakes and tubeless weren't dirt innovations, they have been around for much longer than that.

Considering the mess with tubeless, a tubular(no, gluing them is not a black art), use tubular and sealant. Get all the supple ride(not found on a lot of road tubeless because of stiff sidewalls) and the advantage of no flats from things like goat heads. As for on BIKES, MTB saw the introduction of modern disc brakes AND tubeless. Now run amok, with all the 'standards' of axles, caliper mont type, rotor size..plus drawers full of little proprietary gizmos to make each 'system' work. Spam lever with shimano caliper?-sorry-nope.

 

[winkybiker]

Ratio jumped in a hurry? Disc brakes on bicycles have been around for how long? 15 years. Same with tubeless, another MTB 'innovation' trying to find it's legs in the road market.


That just makes you sound jealous (I don't blame you ). Tubeless is a far superior way to roll on dirt, and dang good on the road. I'll stop there so this thread doesn't get completely hi-jacked. Disc brakes and tubeless weren't dirt innovations, they have been around for much longer than that.

Considering the mess with tubeless, a tubular(no, gluing them is not a black art), use tubular and sealant. Get all the supple ride(not found on a lot of road tubeless because of stiff sidewalls) and the advantage of no flats from things like goat heads. As for on BIKES, MTB saw the introduction of modern disc brakes AND tubeless. Now run amok, with all the 'standards' of axles, caliper mont type, rotor size..plus drawers full of little proprietary gizmos to make each 'system' work. Spam lever with shimano caliper?-sorry-nope.

100% agree. If I want the hassle of mucking around with weird chemicals I'll just use tubs. Great ride, and carbon tubular wheels actually make sense, whereas carbon clinchers offer little but cost lots. Tubeless road systems solve problems I simply do not have. I can't recall the last time I pinch flatted. At least 10 years ago.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Bustedknuckle, that was a great article! Funny thing, James is very much pro disc brake for road bikes. He knows

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/opinion-how-the-uci-and-manufacturers-collectively-bungled-the-disc-brake-trial/

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/disc-brakes-everything-you-need-to-know-bikeradar-45859/

https://twitter.com/angryasian/status/724652157421518848

 

[jmdirt]

Ratio jumped in a hurry? Disc brakes on bicycles have been around for how long? 15 years. Same with tubeless, another MTB 'innovation' trying to find it's legs in the road market.


That just makes you sound jealous (I don't blame you ). Tubeless is a far superior way to roll on dirt, and dang good on the road. I'll stop there so this thread doesn't get completely hi-jacked. Disc brakes and tubeless weren't dirt innovations, they have been around for much longer than that.

Considering the mess with tubeless, a tubular(no, gluing them is not a black art), use tubular and sealant. Get all the supple ride(not found on a lot of road tubeless because of stiff sidewalls) and the advantage of no flats from things like goat heads. As for on BIKES, MTB saw the introduction of modern disc brakes AND tubeless. Now run amok, with all the 'standards' of axles, caliper mont type, rotor size..plus drawers full of little proprietary gizmos to make each 'system' work. Spam lever with shimano caliper?-sorry-nope.

What mess with tubeless? I do like a good set of tubulars though!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Bustedknuckle, that was a great article! Funny thing, James is very much pro disc brake for road bikes. He knows

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/opinion-how-the-uci-and-manufacturers-collectively-bungled-the-disc-brake-trial/

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/disc-brakes-everything-you-need-to-know-bikeradar-45859/

https://twitter.com/angryasian/status/724652157421518848

But his go to bike, the one he rides the most, even on dirt roads...doesn't...strange...