Disc brakes on road bikes...

[Bustedknuckle]

I will fully admit I was a very early adopter of disc brakes. I have a 2015 giant defy advanced pro 1 with the carbon slr0 wheels. I live in Utah and there is not a day I ride without at least 1000ft. elevation gain/loss. I am 6 foot and 220#. I ride in all but the coldest weather as I HATE the trainer. My other bike is fitted with dura ace 9000 and rolf vigor rs aluminum rims. There is no doubt the disk feel better in the hand, but overall power is the same. I can stop basically the same. In the wet again disc feel nicer but overall I just don't believe there is that big of a difference. My times on Strava tell me that on average I am about 1 mph slower on the disc bike. In the wind you can defiantly feel the difference, especially cross winds. You can also "feel" the extra mass of the rotor. I ride some pretty big mountains and on a regular basis, and have decided to sell the disc bike. I just can't see any benefit to the system over the course of a year, plus caliber brakes are much easier to work on. Hope this helps anyone thinking about purchasing a bike soon.

Well said, 'from the horses mouth'..

 

[Night Rider]

Re:

Arriving ahead of schedule... Hmmm, imagine that...

http://redkiteprayer.com/2015/11/mass-extinction/

Wow. Just wow. I'm taking a copy of that to come back to in about 6 months.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I am trying to figure out what will happen with the lack of aero with disc.
Will disc be huge next year?
Buy a new bike now or wait for disc to be figured out?

Or just use caliper brakes. Gonna be around for a long time. ROAD discs are the stuff of marketeers and $.

Yep. Caliper for me.

The pros have little say in it all really. I always found it more interesting to see what pros ride after they finished racing on sponsored bikes.

Or what they ride when they aren't in team kit. A LOT ride Pegorettis.

Yep, when it's their own $$$ it's almost always high end custom - Legend, Pegoretti, Baum, Cyfac, Enigma, Guru, Alchemy, Craddock etc. An ex pro I know even started his own brand he was so unhappy with what the big companies are putting out.

The usual justification is that after being told what to ride for so long they just want to ride exactly what they want for a change

IMHO the new direct mount brakes from Shimano and Campy are the way forward, they're that good.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I am trying to figure out what will happen with the lack of aero with disc.
Will disc be huge next year?
Buy a new bike now or wait for disc to be figured out?

I only see the pros using discs in extreme conditions, like a really wet Lombardia, Roubaix or Strade Bianche. Think back to the Giro stage Evans won in 2010, or the cobbled stage in the 2014 Tour. Otherwise, they'll be using direct mount calipers, especially on major mountain top finishes.

I'd give the manufacturers 2-3 years to get it right, SRAM might need 4-5

 

[biker jk]

I will fully admit I was a very early adopter of disc brakes. I have a 2015 giant defy advanced pro 1 with the carbon slr0 wheels. I live in Utah and there is not a day I ride without at least 1000ft. elevation gain/loss. I am 6 foot and 220#. I ride in all but the coldest weather as I HATE the trainer. My other bike is fitted with dura ace 9000 and rolf vigor rs aluminum rims. There is no doubt the disk feel better in the hand, but overall power is the same. I can stop basically the same. In the wet again disc feel nicer but overall I just don't believe there is that big of a difference. My times on Strava tell me that on average I am about 1 mph slower on the disc bike. In the wind you can defiantly feel the difference, especially cross winds. You can also "feel" the extra mass of the rotor. I ride some pretty big mountains and on a regular basis, and have decided to sell the disc bike. I just can't see any benefit to the system over the course of a year, plus caliber brakes are much easier to work on. Hope this helps anyone thinking about purchasing a bike soon.

My experience is the complete opposite. Braking with my disc brake road bike in the wet is substantially better than my alloy rim road bike. I would imagine that the difference would be magnified with carbon rims.

I also like climbing with a typical ride comprising 1,000m of elevation gain and some audax rides I do can have over 2,000m. My descending is faster due to the better modulation provided by disc brakes, and that is in the dry. I recall a 400km audax ride when I approached a sharp downhill corner at night and in the wet and there was no rim braking for what appeared to be an eternity. Not a re-assuring feeling.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re: Re:

I don't know about "duty cycle" as that depends on the terrain, but the brakes on a road bike on grippy tarmac braking hard from high-speed into a downhill corner will have to dissipate energy at a far greater rate than a mountain bike on dirt at lower speeds. It may not matter too much if that peak energy situation is not repeated too rapidly in succession, but there is a reason sportsbikes have huge dual discs up front, and motocross bikes get by with a single, skinny disc.

The inevitable quest for lightness may end in tears.

Sportbikes have dual discs because they weigh twice as much as a motocross bike, and no one is putting them on a diet, because stopping power is the priority. Two things are very apparent from your post. You have not yet ridden a sub 17 lb road bike with hydraulic disc brakes, and your mountain biking is evidently quite pedestrian.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I don't know about "duty cycle" as that depends on the terrain, but the brakes on a road bike on grippy tarmac braking hard from high-speed into a downhill corner will have to dissipate energy at a far greater rate than a mountain bike on dirt at lower speeds. It may not matter too much if that peak energy situation is not repeated too rapidly in succession, but there is a reason sportsbikes have huge dual discs up front, and motocross bikes get by with a single, skinny disc.

The inevitable quest for lightness may end in tears.

Sportbikes have dual discs because they weigh twice as much as a motocross bike, and no one is putting them on a diet, because stopping power is the priority. Two things are very apparent from your post. You have not yet ridden a sub 17 lb road bike with hydraulic disc brakes, and your mountain biking is evidently quite pedestrian.

One doesn't need to be flying down mountains on ones MTB to be called pedestrian.

Most big motorbikes have dual front discs. In fact most have ABS to add to the stopping power required for the BHP on motorbikes.

Maybe some of you hotrods need ABS to add to your shiny new discs

 

[VeloFidelis]

"I do not think that means what you think it means"... must be opposites day.

 

[King Boonen]

I want disc brakes for consistency, not power, better modulation and to know I'm not grinding away an extremely important part of my bike.


I've gone to grab my brakes in terrible weather and got little to nothing, inducing a brown chamois moment! Up here I can go out in blazing sunshine and end up on soaking wet, mud covered roads miles from home with literally no was to get back other than ride (very few train lines and even cars where I ride). I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

I've also been on a couple of rides now where peoples rims have worn through and the wheel has gone bang. Luckily on both occasions we were on the flat and the wheel had enough integrity not to collapse.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re:

I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

Word!

 

[Night Rider]

Re:

I want disc brakes for consistency, not power, better modulation and to know I'm not grinding away an extremely important part of my bike.


I've gone to grab my brakes in terrible weather and got little to nothing, inducing a brown chamois moment! Up here I can go out in blazing sunshine and end up on soaking wet, mud covered roads miles from home with literally no was to get back other than ride (very few train lines and even cars where I ride). I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

I've also been on a couple of rides now where peoples rims have worn through and the wheel has gone bang. Luckily on both occasions we were on the flat and the wheel had enough integrity not to collapse.

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

I want disc brakes for consistency, not power, better modulation and to know I'm not grinding away an extremely important part of my bike.


I've gone to grab my brakes in terrible weather and got little to nothing, inducing a brown chamois moment! Up here I can go out in blazing sunshine and end up on soaking wet, mud covered roads miles from home with literally no was to get back other than ride (very few train lines and even cars where I ride). I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

I've also been on a couple of rides now where peoples rims have worn through and the wheel has gone bang. Luckily on both occasions we were on the flat and the wheel had enough integrity not to collapse.

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

I've seen it just once in 30+ years (not me though, a riding partner). My buddies at work who commute on disc-braked bikes seem to have lots of issues with pads wearing (to the point of greatly impaired, if not zero, performance), rotors going out of true, squealing brakes as well as worn discs to (possibly) close to the point of structural failure. Bottom line is that all braking systems need maintenance.

I'll still switch to discs (on my next commuter/winter bike) for the sole reason that wet weather performance is more consistent. My summer race bike? The jury is still out for me. Ask me in another year.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I want disc brakes for consistency, not power, better modulation and to know I'm not grinding away an extremely important part of my bike.


I've gone to grab my brakes in terrible weather and got little to nothing, inducing a brown chamois moment! Up here I can go out in blazing sunshine and end up on soaking wet, mud covered roads miles from home with literally no was to get back other than ride (very few train lines and even cars where I ride). I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

I've also been on a couple of rides now where peoples rims have worn through and the wheel has gone bang. Luckily on both occasions we were on the flat and the wheel had enough integrity not to collapse.

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Depends on the conditions I suppose. Massively changing weather conditions and poor road maintenance in Scotland could mean wheel failure is much more likely than somewhere with predictable weather and smooth highways. The only real way to check is get the wheel off, check the braking surface and measure it's thickness which is a massive pain. You also need to know at what point you should change it. I can't find that data anywhere.

If they hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through the worst that could happen is the wheel locks up and damages/destroys your caliper. If you lose braking you still have the other brake, it's not a collapsed wheel.

I've seen it just once in 30+ years (not me though, a riding partner). My buddies at work who commute on disc-braked bikes seem to have lots of issues with pads wearing (to the point of greatly impaired, if not zero, performance), rotors going out of true, squealing brakes as well as worn discs to (possibly) close to the point of structural failure. Bottom line is that all braking systems need maintenance.

I'll still switch to discs (on my next commuter/winter bike) for the sole reason that wet weather performance is more consistent. My summer race bike? The jury is still out for me. Ask me in another year.

Pads wear quicker and discs wear, yes, you need to keep an eye on them, it's not that bad though. If these fail the wheel stays in tact, not so if a rim fails (and yes it's very rare but it does happen). Bent rotors are likely due to cable-operated brakes as these only move one piston, I'd always recommend hydraulics. Squealing brakes I can't comment on but not heard much from the few guys I know who are currently riding them.


As I've said before, wet performance and modulation are where they win for me. If you're a racer on a pro team then they're probably unnecessary, but none of us are. I won't be swapping anytime soon though.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Mmmm, catastrophic in deed... but virtually impossible.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Mmmm, catastrophic in deed... but virtually impossible.

Discs have their place but come with 'goods and others'. Expense, weight, complication. PLUS the disc/rotor/caliper/axle non standard standards that seem to change weekly, along with manufacturer's 'standards(trek/spec-ed)'.

I think I rankle at the marketing BS. All bikes-All disc, like it was written on tablets and brought down from the mountain top. If calipers on road, enthusiast's bikes were deficient, lacking, poor, dangerous..yup. But look at why MTBs got disc in the first place(wet/muddy/high chance of wacking a wheel). And then apply to dry weather, flatish teraain ridden road bikes. Marketeers will say ya can't do without electronic, hydraulic disc, TA, direct mount, centerlock brake..matched to a 44mm head tube fork..what??

Yup, they are coming, for good or 'ill'...not for me, thanks.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Mmmm, catastrophic in deed... but virtually impossible.

The first situation should be impossible too, all it takes is an inspection of the rims every now and then. If the same rider didn't ever replace discs and pads they would wear through as well. Quicker than rim brakes.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Re:

I want disc brakes for consistency, not power, better modulation and to know I'm not grinding away an extremely important part of my bike.


I've gone to grab my brakes in terrible weather and got little to nothing, inducing a brown chamois moment! Up here I can go out in blazing sunshine and end up on soaking wet, mud covered roads miles from home with literally no was to get back other than ride (very few train lines and even cars where I ride). I know the good caliper brakes can lock up a wheel so power isn't an issue. Modulation on a system is much better when the force required to operate it is lower. You can get to the point just before lock-up much easier and more consistently, especially in changing conditions.

I've also been on a couple of rides now where peoples rims have worn through and the wheel has gone bang. Luckily on both occasions we were on the flat and the wheel had enough integrity not to collapse.

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

I've seen it just once in 30+ years (not me though, a riding partner). My buddies at work who commute on disc-braked bikes seem to have lots of issues with pads wearing (to the point of greatly impaired, if not zero, performance), rotors going out of true, squealing brakes as well as worn discs to (possibly) close to the point of structural failure. Bottom line is that all braking systems need maintenance.

I'll still switch to discs (on my next commuter/winter bike) for the sole reason that wet weather performance is more consistent. My summer race bike? The jury is still out for me. Ask me in another year.

I have them on my commuter bike, they are ok and good for that purpose. Quite frankly I don't see anything in the currently available systems and general data that would see me putting them on my race bike within the next two years.

As a general test when you see a TdF winner using them on the majority of stages then you know it's time to swap. Can you honestly see Contador or Froome electing to use them this year? No way.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re: Re:

[

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re: Re:

[

 

[VeloFidelis]

Re: Re:

The first situation should be impossible too, all it takes is an inspection of the rims every now and then. If the same rider didn't ever replace discs and pads they would wear through as well. Quicker than rim brakes.

Ummm... No actually... they wouldn't

 

[Fenceline]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Mmmm, catastrophic in deed... but virtually impossible.

The first situation should be impossible too, all it takes is an inspection of the rims every now and then. If the same rider didn't ever replace discs and pads they would wear through as well. Quicker than rim brakes.

Assuming that you have inspected your rims and noticed some wear, at what point do you decide that the rim is no longer safe to use?
Rim manufacturers do not specify when rims are worn out, whereas there will normally be a minimum thickness for discs specified and marked onto discs.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't ride with anyone whose bike maintenance was that bad. In 25 years of riding I have never seen that. Imagine how bad it could have been on a disc bike where he hadn't been replacing rotors and they wore through. Catastrophic!

Mmmm, catastrophic in deed... but virtually impossible.

The first situation should be impossible too, all it takes is an inspection of the rims every now and then. If the same rider didn't ever replace discs and pads they would wear through as well. Quicker than rim brakes.

Assuming that you have inspected your rims and noticed some wear, at what point do you decide that the rim is no longer safe to use?
Rim manufacturers do not specify when rims are worn out, whereas there will normally be a minimum thickness for discs specified and marked onto discs.

Actually, the vast majority of Aluminium rims will have small holes in the braking surface for the very purpose of knowing when the rim is worn out.

 

[LugHugger]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-chooses-not-to-use-disc-brakes-in-2016/

 

[Bustedknuckle]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-chooses-not-to-use-disc-brakes-in-2016/

What?? How can he possibly ride a bike without thru-axles, flat mount disc brakes and a tapered fork..it's dangerous I tell ya!!!

"Won't go to discs at any price"..for some companies(spam), the $ is going to be pretty high. Their future depends on wet discs..

 

[VeloFidelis]

Hmmm... go figure... He was such an early adopter when it came to motors.