discussion!!! greipel.

[auscyclefan94]

I don't really know why so many people strongly dislike Greipel. He is a friendly and modest guy, even when he talks about Cav.

Of course, he has not lived up to the expectations this year, including his own I guess. But I guess this is because of two reasons: 1. He still has to find his rhythm with his new team, 2. He rides the Tour for the first time. This is an important factor, because this race is harder and more nervous than any other GT. In terms of power, he could smoke Cav in a sprint finish. But he still needs to be delivered just to the line by a team, because he - like Cav until just now, I guess - is not able to get to the front all by himself. I was really surprised by Cav yesterday. That is a new feat of him. Greipel came in 6th. He was boxed in in the last few meters, so he couldn't react.

I am sure: We will see stronger stages by Greipel on this Tour or next year. On a good day, I guess he is not only one of the fastet men in the field but the fastest.

+1 - Go Greipel. He deserves a stage win.

 

[Duartista]

Apparently the team management had a closed doors meeting with Gilbert after yesterday's stage. Van den Broek confirmed that the team was supposed to work for Greipel: http://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/tourdefrance/detail_des-tensions-chez-omega-pharma-lotto?id=6414903

Poor from Gilbert. I wonder if the team will work for him today.

 

[greenedge]

He can delevop but Cav describes him as a strong rider. He's fast but might be more in the Hushovd mould.

 

[Lexman]

the problem with greipel at HTC is the majority of his wins were at smaller events, against less opposition. Lets take his GTs:
He has won 2 Girostages, and 4 Vuelta:
He won 1 Giro stage in last years edition AFTER Farrar, Pettacchi and a couple of the other sprinters had pulled out - before, out of 2 sprints against farrar and patacchi he hadnt even managed 1 podium! Hardly the best thing to boast about, managing 1 win against a field that didn't have any of the best 3 sprinters in, even if it was the giro. His other Giro stage was in 2008, again without Farrar/Pet in the race,and this time it was one gifted to him by Cav to say thanks (this was back when they at last kind of got along) - and Cav finished 2nd in the sprint. So Giro? Hardly anything to crow about, when considering the curcumstances.
And he has 4 Vuelta stages too:all 4 came in 2009, where again, there was no Cav and Farra, and for 2 of them, no Farrar (or again, the other sprinters who pulled out). So again, yes, there were 2 results, but not against any of the other top sprinter, and even then, he lost 2 times against a non-top field (including one where he was outsprinteed by Anthony Roux and William Bonnet!). The other 2 were won against a Cav and Petacchi-less field, but Farrar ws there (despite having already done the other 2 GTs and using it as warmup which is why he pulled out halfway through) - and although he did win 2 of the stages, he also lost 4 sprints (3 of which weren't even won by farrar, he was not at his top of his form!).

So in conclusion,he is a rider who has managed to win 6 GT stages, of which 4 were against a sub-par field (for GT sprints), and the 2 that he did win were up against only Farrar (not at full form), where he also lost 4 sprints to the likes of Bennatti, Henderson, Sabbatini and Bozic - hardly the palmares of someone who could call themselves onwe of the best 3 sprinters in the world. The rest of his results have largely been in thhe likes of the tour of Turkey. and TDU. To think that he would therefore materialise as the biggest threat to Cav's dominance in sprints, especially considering he *does* rely on a train as much as Cav, and is on a team with at least 2 other goals, is frankly ridicuous

The 1 thing he has learnt this year, and has shown him in a more positive light, is his willingness to work for others during stages - probably because lotto realise he is not one of the top sprinters, so are trying to adjust his expectations and his role as a result

That's exactly my thoughts, Greipel had a lot of wins but it was all in minor races or tours (fro example tour of Turkey etc.) and has never proven anything against the major sprinters. Otherwise his work for the team and his win at De Panne impressed me a lot more than some stagewins against 2nd or 3rd rate sprinters...

But with Gilbert in green it's almost normal that the team has to support Gilbert and not Greipel... Greipels chance might come later on in the Tour, when sprinters like Cav, Farrar are tired of the mountainstages...

 

[Praetor]

Gilbert has been a d!ck to his team.

Yes, if you want to win the green jersey and there's a stage where you can actually win, you should blow your own chances so your teammate can get third place instead of sixth.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Well there are two possibilities.
1. Cav was true in erything he said about Greipl
2. HTC just has the secret stuff for sprinters. (Just look how Ciolek fell off when he left).

 

[greenedge]

Same with EBH. I had that as a possible thread listed on thread ideas of which i have not created one. However i had not created one as EBH had potential and has now fufilled that.

 

[Midnightfright]

Well there are two possibilities.
1. Cav was true in erything he said about Greipl
2. HTC just has the secret stuff for sprinters. (Just look how Ciolek fell off when he left).

I think its also hard to adjust once u lose the HTC train and u have 1 guy helping u

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

gilbert is a great rider but egoistic ***hole as well. greiepel worked his but off for gilbert wherever he could this year and I've never seen gilbert work for anyone else. not that that is bad but then at least say so. go make your own team like vdb did with cofidis

 

[L'arriviste]

Today's Le Soir reports:

Is there a problem with Gilbert at Omega Pharma?

According to the RTBF (Belgian francophone state broadcaster) website, "the tension was palpable around the OPL bus," because the leader had not "followed the plan defined at the team briefing."

Should Gilbert have ridden for Greipel yesterday?

[Le Soir's correspondent on site says]: "Of course not! With Gilbert and Greipel you have a world number one and a good sprinter. Simple as that. What's more, Gilbert now has real ambitions for the green jersey and has proven his form. As for Greipel, he hasn't really confirmed his strength and to be honest you couldn't see him beating Cavendish in a finish like yesterday. Between these two prospects, there's really not much to say! ... If there are tensions at OPL, it's between the team and the press ... I didn't see Van Den Broeck complaining about Gilbert as the RTBF claimed ... Like I said, there was nothing to suggest that management were asking Gilbert to step down and lead out Greipel in the sprints."

 

[AussieGoddess]

toally agree

Greipel is a whiny little **** ....

Gilbert has proven himself, is No 1 in the world, is in great form, has a legitimite shot at green and the stage was more his style that Greipels. I cant imagine why ANYONE would think that Gilbert should have been leading him out ...

 

[hrotha]

If the plan was for Gilbert to support Greipel in yesterday's stage, it was IMO a wrong plan, but it was still the plan. Gilbert never makes a sacrifice for his teammates, while Greipel worked his *** out for him in the classics. That's the issue.

 

[Jamsque]

If the plan was for Gilbert to support Greipel in yesterday's stage, it was IMO a wrong plan, but it was still the plan. Gilbert never makes a sacrifice for his teammates, while Greipel worked his *** out for him in the classics. That's the issue.

Spot on. Greipel has been a horse this year, he went from being a protected sprinter last year to spending most of the spring as a super-domestique without a single word of complaint. He has worked incredibly hard for Gilbert, and he deserves to reap the promised reward for that, which was presumably a leadership role in the Tour de France. Gilbert is a great rider, but if he wants riders like Greipel to work for him then he has to be willing to re-pay the favour when his DS tells him to.

 

[Jan the Man]

If the plan was for Gilbert to support Greipel in yesterday's stage, it was IMO a wrong plan, but it was still the plan. Gilbert never makes a sacrifice for his teammates, while Greipel worked his *** out for him in the classics. That's the issue.

I agree on both fronts hrotha.

If the plan was for Gilbert to work for Greipel and he ignored that it is poor form. On the other hand, knowing the technicality of the finish, if it was the plan it was a pretty silly one. Gilbert being the one in contention for the Green Jersey and with favourable stages coming up they should have been working for him. If they wanted to work for Greipel in the coming stages they should have waited till the pancacke flat stages 7 where Gilbert can probably only manage 6-10th at best against the top sprinters.

As for VDB/Gilbert on stage 4 I am undecided whether VDB2 was going for it solo or trying to set a fast tempo for Gilbert. Still having got a gap Gilbert should probably have left others to chase VDB2 down.

 

[Parrulo]

If the plan was for Gilbert to support Greipel in yesterday's stage, it was IMO a wrong plan, but it was still the plan. Gilbert never makes a sacrifice for his teammates, while Greipel worked his *** out for him in the classics. That's the issue.

exactly

gilbert should be more grateful to greipel and before saying greipel isn't good enough he should try to put him in position and launch him so he has a chance to prove himself.

 

[veganrob]

I did not like Greipel prior to this year. Whined too much. I give him a lot of credit this year for all his hard work. However he is not a top tier sprinter to contest the likes of Cav, Peta, Farrar

 

[AussieGoddess]

he went from being a second choice sprinter who was only allowed in the race if Mark Cavendish decided he would allow it ..... to a team where he is the sprinter, goes to the major races and is supported when he can be.

Doesnt make him a top rated sprinter though, and doesnt mean the team leader should set aside his own TdF ambitions to ride for a second rate sprinter.

His job IS a domestique. He isnt good enough to have a team built around him like Cav ....

 

[gerddk]

IMO most people are too hard on Greipel. Mark Sergant himself said (before yesterday's events) that Greipel will need time to settle in his new team. He said he was impressed by Greipel's work rate for the team.

About yesterday. According to Mario Aerts on Belgian television, the plan yesterday morning was to ride for Greipel in a bunch sprint. To me it is pretty obvious that Gilbert is to blame for what happened. Cyclists should stick to the plan, the only way they can afford to ignore the plan is by winning the race. Gilbert did not win...

 

[auscyclefan94]

IMO most people are too hard on Greipel. Mark Sergant himself said (before yesterday's events) that Greipel will need time to settle in his new team. He said he was impressed by Greipel's work rate for the team.

About yesterday. According to Mario Aerts on Belgian television, the plan yesterday morning was to ride for Greipel in a bunch sprint. To me it is pretty obvious that Gilbert is to blame for what happened. Cyclists should stick to the plan, the only way they can afford to ignore the plan is by winning the race. Gilbert did not win...

I am sure contador agrees with that statement (RE arcalis 2009)

 

[TRDean]

toally agree

Greipel is a whiny little **** ....
Gilbert has proven himself, is No 1 in the world, is in great form, has a legitimite shot at green and the stage was more his style that Greipels. I cant imagine why ANYONE would think that Gilbert should have been leading him out ...

What?? When is he whining? Greipel has been a fantastic team player this year...I suggest you pay attention!

 

[kurtinsc]

he went from being a second choice sprinter who was only allowed in the race if Mark Cavendish decided he would allow it ..... to a team where he is the sprinter, goes to the major races and is supported when he can be.

Doesnt make him a top rated sprinter though, and doesnt mean the team leader should set aside his own TdF ambitions to ride for a second rate sprinter.

His job IS a domestique. He isnt good enough to have a team built around him like Cav ....

Yes, but he was getting more results as a second choice sprinter with HTC then he has as the main sprinter with OPL.

In his last 3 years with HTC he had 6 GT sprint stage wins (and a points jersey), 11 pro-tour stage wins (an 2 GC's in pro-tour events), and 39 "other" sprint wins.

This year he has 5 wins of the "other" category, and only has 2 poidums in pro-tour events (from the TDU... a race he dominated with HTC). He won one stage in Turkey this year... he won 5 in it last year with HTC.

He looks much worse without the HTC train surrounding him. At HTC he looked like the 2nd or 3rd best sprinter. Now he looks like the 7th-10th best sprinter.

 

[SiAp1984]

Greipel is an a$$hole, visible for everybody at least since his attitude towards Sinkewitz during 2009s Sachsen-Tour.

I also didn't like this action (by the whole field) back then. But I read an interview with Greipel later (unfortunately I do not have the link anymore), where he explained the gesture towards Sinkewitz that he and the others could not believe that somebody came straight out of a 2-years-suspension and hold off a charging field all alone. Today we know that this suspicion was right - Sinkewitz got busted for HGH.

This may not be his year in the bunch sprints, but I hope he will win a stage on one of the transitional stages, out of a small group.

 

[Gloin22]

Hey lay off Henderson, at least he has won sprint stages at GT's and bloody well should be at the Tour instead of Ben Swift who will be conspicuous by his invisibility at the business end of the race.

You know he's a domestqiue in sky for Tour and not spritner. He worked his sokcs off today to keep Thomas earlier at top of the race, and DS's is very much apprecating his efforts.

 

[William H]

At the start of the Tour they were talking about Swift and EBH sharing the sprinting duties.

 

[mountainbiker]

Greipel wil get his chance tomorrow. Gilbert got team orders not to mix it up in the sprint tomorrow.
What do you guys recon his chances are?