discussion!!! greipel.

[c&cfan]

isn't karma a bad girl?

he leaved htc because he was p+issed. why was he p+ssed?
-always (almost) excluded from the best races,
-not the main sprinter,
-cav.

still he won lot's of races. his train was the main reason for his wins, unlike cav's wins.

what does he has now?
-always (almost) at the best races,
-main sprinter,
-they don't care who is their sprinter,
-he has to work for the team before sprints,
-no train,
-one or 2 wins instead of 20 of the same level each,
-gilbert.



enjoy your stay greipel!! biggest disappointment of the season because he eliminated the so much wanted cav vs greipel duel.

discuss.

pedro
------------------------------------------------------------

then he has problems and "fights" at every single team.

he could a great rider if he knew how good he is.---northern classics potential and smaller races. that's it. stop finding excuses and problems.

 

[taiwan]

Yeah I'm sort of disappointed at his lack of results, but I hadn't expected a Cav/Greipel duel since a long time ago: I think still only Peta and Farrar can challenge Cav and only on a good day.

Take the point about the irony of leaving one team because of being overshadowed by a big name sprinter, only to be overshadowed by a big name non-sprinter.

At least he does get to start the Tour and MSR, which you probably would want to do at some point in your cycling career, and which his palmares has more than merited. He might still have an opportunity to do something for himself in the Tour too, stop people saying he's not a rider for the big races.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Greipel has been much more than a sprinter this year. He's been more than willing to sacrifice himself to work for Gilbert, sitting on the front and dragging back attacks in San Remo, and doing a pretty reasonable job in the cobbled Classics.

Has he won so much this year? No. But then his palmarès hasn't been padded out by barrelled fish-shooting like Turkey and Austria this year, and he's had to compete against the likes of Cavendish, Farrar and Petacchi rather than Brown, Fischer and Henderson.

 

[The Hitch]

No worries boys and girls. Greipel will be back to winning the prestigious Krakow stage of the Tour of Poland next month.

Then we will see where all the haters are hiding.

 

[kurtinsc]

Greipel has been much more than a sprinter this year. He's been more than willing to sacrifice himself to work for Gilbert, sitting on the front and dragging back attacks in San Remo, and doing a pretty reasonable job in the cobbled Classics.

Has he won so much this year? No. But then his palmarès hasn't been padded out by barrelled fish-shooting like Turkey and Austria this year, and he's had to compete against the likes of Cavendish, Farrar and Petacchi rather than Brown, Fischer and Henderson.

The thing is... with HTC the past three years he got 2 Giro wins, 4 vuelta wins and a GT points title. He got 50 stage/1-day race wins other then those. 11 of them were in world tour events (though lesser ones). He also got 2 GC wins in world tour events (TDU's in 2008 and 2010).

He's ridden a lot of the same lesser races this year... and done worse then with HTC. He didn't win a stage at the TDU. He won one stage in Turkey (as opposed to 5 the prior year). Won one in Algarve (same as last year), and 2 wins in Ronde van Belgie. So far, the only PODIUMS in races of note were two 2nd places in the TDU and a 3rd at K-B-K.

His two chances at Tour sprints (won by Farrar and Cavendish) resulted in a 9th and 6th place result.

Unless his season takes a big turn around, he's looking at having made a huge mistake. He's doing worse in the little races he used to dominate, and he's doing worse in big races too... even though he has more chances now.

 

[Yeahright]

Greipel has been much more than a sprinter this year. He's been more than willing to sacrifice himself to work for Gilbert, sitting on the front and dragging back attacks in San Remo, and doing a pretty reasonable job in the cobbled Classics.

Has he won so much this year? No. But then his palmarès hasn't been padded out by barrelled fish-shooting like Turkey and Austria this year, and he's had to compete against the likes of Cavendish, Farrar and Petacchi rather than Brown, Fischer and Henderson.

Hey lay off Henderson, at least he has won sprint stages at GT's and bloody well should be at the Tour instead of Ben Swift who will be conspicuous by his invisibility at the business end of the race.

 

[Tuarts]

Knives are out

http://dlvr.it/ZC8Fh

 

[Jamsque]

I hope he actually gets a chance to sprint against the big boys at some point. He gets no lead-out help at all so whenever he's been involved in a mass sprint he's had to start from way behind everyone else. I think Lotto was the wrong team for him, and it will only get worse if they merge with Quick-Step.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I've never really cared for Greipel. I've always felt he was an overrated sprinter and kind of a wimp, constantly complaining about his place on a team with an obviously faster and more talented sprinter. However, he has impressed me this year. He's emerged as a decent classics rider more than a pure sprinter, and he has shown willingness to do the work when he won't be sprinting. Lotto just isn't the right fit for him. I thought that was the case when he signed: I knew he wouldn't get the lead-out he has always benefited from, but I didn't expect any animosity with other members of the team.

Not really sure how it was supposed to play out for Greipel today, but if Gilbert took what was supposed to be his shot at a stage win, Greipel has a reason to be upset. He has done his part in helping Gilbert wear yellow for a day.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think Greipel deserved some more chances than he got at HTC, but it was not so much that Cav was the undisputed top dog but that Cav and Greipel didn't get on and so Cav wouldn't have Greipel on the team that was the sticking block. After all, Greipel felt he deserved a shot at Milan-San Remo in 2010. He probably did, but Cavendish was the defending champion, so no Greipel. With Goss, they can easily coexist, but with Greipel and Cav that was not a possibility. So because Cav was the better sprinter, he got to do the races he wanted, which left Greipel floundering with smaller races and getting thrown a bone with the Vuelta (or the Giro in 2010 solely because the sponsors demanded Cav in California, which Mark wasn't too happy about).

Greipel is also a rider that needs a leadout. We often talk about the way Cavendish benefits from his leadout, but he has shown himself to be capable of positioning himself well enough on his own, or at least decently enough that his brutal acceleration can cover for. Greipel has sometimes struggled to position himself and lost the wheel of his train so it's only natural that he would struggle more when having no support.

I don't really understand what Lotto's function at this Tour is. Yet again they seem to be going for everything at once; a GC man, jersey/stagehunting and sprints. It's no surprise their GC men will be outshone by dedicated GC teams and their sprinters will be outshone by dedicated sprinting teams (see also: Sky). Greipel obviously kept his end of the bargain up by working for Gilbert (as he has done on a few other occasions this season), so he feels like, when it's his turn, Gilbert should throw him a bone once in a while too. Not hard to feel like he has a point.

 

[Altitude]

isn't karma a bad girl?

he leaved htc because he was p+issed. why was he p+ssed?
-always (almost) excluded from the best races,
-not the main sprinter,
-cav.

still he won lot's of races. his train was the main reason for his wins, unlike cav's wins.

Yeah, because Cavendish fights for wheels all on his own.

 

[Parrulo]

i honestly never rated greipel but this year he has grown on me. the guy killed himself for gilbert in M-SR rode some good cobbled classics and he even worked for gilbert on this year's tour. the guy prolly isn't as fast as people thought he was and has a hard time getting a good position on his own but he is a very good rider imo. his win on the 3 days the panne was pretty damn cool. i think lotto should get some1 like hondo a guy that can on his own put his sprinter in a good position and launch him but guys like hondo are expensive and there aren't many

 

[c&cfan]

Yeah, because Cavendish fights for wheels all on his own.

do you have any problem with your eyes? how were cav's last 2 wins in the tour?

cav's train makes it easy for him but it isn't fundamental. he showed that already not one 2 or 3 times...

greipel needs is lead out, he has power but nothing else. there's a reason for guys like him boonen and even hushovd to just win a few sprints per season.

cav isn't as powerful but he is a sprint master.

if he is at the front and if he has the same luck as his contenders, we know who wins.

 

[c&cfan]

i honestly never rated greipel but this year he has grown on me. the guy killed himself for gilbert in M-SR rode some good cobbled classics and he even worked for gilbert on this year's tour. the guy prolly isn't as fast as people thought he was and has a hard time getting a good position on his own but he is a very good rider imo. his win on the 3 days the panne was pretty damn cool. i think lotto should get some1 like hondo a guy that can on his own put his sprinter in a good position and launch him but guys like hondo are expensive and there aren't many

he is more complete (maybe more endurance, better at flattish roads hills etc) and he is showing some heart but he is worse as a sprinter.

right now he is an average rider. last year he was viewed by many as a top dog. he had more than 20wins... now what does he have?nothing!

 

[ScottyMuser]

the problem with greipel at HTC is the majority of his wins were at smaller events, against less opposition. Lets take his GTs:
He has won 2 Girostages, and 4 Vuelta:
He won 1 Giro stage in last years edition AFTER Farrar, Pettacchi and a couple of the other sprinters had pulled out - before, out of 2 sprints against farrar and patacchi he hadnt even managed 1 podium! Hardly the best thing to boast about, managing 1 win against a field that didn't have any of the best 3 sprinters in, even if it was the giro. His other Giro stage was in 2008, again without Farrar/Pet in the race,and this time it was one gifted to him by Cav to say thanks (this was back when they at last kind of got along) - and Cav finished 2nd in the sprint. So Giro? Hardly anything to crow about, when considering the curcumstances.
And he has 4 Vuelta stages too:all 4 came in 2009, where again, there was no Cav and Farra, and for 2 of them, no Farrar (or again, the other sprinters who pulled out). So again, yes, there were 2 results, but not against any of the other top sprinter, and even then, he lost 2 times against a non-top field (including one where he was outsprinteed by Anthony Roux and William Bonnet!). The other 2 were won against a Cav and Petacchi-less field, but Farrar ws there (despite having already done the other 2 GTs and using it as warmup which is why he pulled out halfway through) - and although he did win 2 of the stages, he also lost 4 sprints (3 of which weren't even won by farrar, he was not at his top of his form!).

So in conclusion,he is a rider who has managed to win 6 GT stages, of which 4 were against a sub-par field (for GT sprints), and the 2 that he did win were up against only Farrar (not at full form), where he also lost 4 sprints to the likes of Bennatti, Henderson, Sabbatini and Bozic - hardly the palmares of someone who could call themselves onwe of the best 3 sprinters in the world. The rest of his results have largely been in thhe likes of the tour of Turkey. and TDU. To think that he would therefore materialise as the biggest threat to Cav's dominance in sprints, especially considering he *does* rely on a train as much as Cav, and is on a team with at least 2 other goals, is frankly ridicuous

The 1 thing he has learnt this year, and has shown him in a more positive light, is his willingness to work for others during stages - probably because lotto realise he is not one of the top sprinters, so are trying to adjust his expectations and his role as a result

 

[Libertine Seguros]

To be fair, Anthony Roux didn't outsprint him, Roux was in the break that day and held on by a front wheel against the sprinters. One of the most exciting flat stage finishes in years.

 

[hrotha]

Greipel has shown he can be a monster domestique (he gave glimpses of that last year, working for Martin at ENECO), but the problem is that's not what Lotto signed him for. They signed him because they needed victories, as their only winning rider was Gilbert. In that regard, Greipel is not delivering.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Greipel will be back. Lotto haven't really supported him at all in the sprints.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Gilbert has been a d!ck to his team.

 

[**Uru**]

I enjoyed watching stage 5 of the tour today where Cav beat Fast Phil to the line. Where was Griepel?

 

[laziali]

Cav and Greipel are the two biggest tools in the peleton.

OPs comments are spot on.

Nothing else to be said.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

This season has shown two things about Greipel.

1) He's a more complete rider than most people expected. He can get into a break, work hard, and win. He is willing and able to do big pulls for team mates.

2) In his role as a sprinter, he is more reliant on good support and a lead out than many of the other big names. I suspect that this is more due to a lack of positioning sense than simply a lack of top end speed, although the latter may be a factor too.

He's on a team which does not suit his goals at all. Their order of priorities goes (1) Gilbert, (2) Gilbert again, (3) VDB2, (4) Greipel. Unless a sprinter has Robbie McEwen's ability to ninja his way onto someone else's train, that's a very difficult position for a sprinter to be in. Particularly a sprinter who is used to being on the end of the best train in the business. Add to that, that most top sprinters are not expected to work on non-sprint days while Greipel is.

If Gilbert was supposed to be helping Greipel yesterday, it's pretty poor form not to do it when Greipel has pretty visibly been working when Gilbert is the leader. Particularly when your remember Gilbert's rather, lets just say unusual, move to close the gap on VDB2 a stage earlier. People here have been speculating about Hushovd supposedly having issues with Garmin, but the fact is he's been a much more disciplined team mate than Gilbert.

It strikes me as a poor decision on the part of any rider to get a reputation for screwing people over, whether that's your team mates or companions in breaks. As against that, if you are talented enough and important enough to the team, you can to some extent get away with it. There's obviously a lot of politics in a cycling team. Gilbert probably feels that he should be the sole focus of the team, and his results certainly provide him with a lot of back up for that argument. But I think we can take it for granted that Greipel didn't sign with OPL on the basis that he was going to be a domestique and unsupported lone ranger sprinter.

 

[SiAp1984]

I don't really know why so many people strongly dislike Greipel. He is a friendly and modest guy, even when he talks about Cav.

Of course, he has not lived up to the expectations this year, including his own I guess. But I guess this is because of two reasons: 1. He still has to find his rhythm with his new team, 2. He rides the Tour for the first time. This is an important factor, because this race is harder and more nervous than any other GT. In terms of power, he could smoke Cav in a sprint finish. But he still needs to be delivered just to the line by a team, because he - like Cav until just now, I guess - is not able to get to the front all by himself. I was really surprised by Cav yesterday. That is a new feat of him. Greipel came in 6th. He was boxed in in the last few meters, so he couldn't react.

I am sure: We will see stronger stages by Greipel on this Tour or next year. On a good day, I guess he is not only one of the fastet men in the field but the fastest.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

I don't really know why so many people strongly dislike Greipel. He is a friendly and modest guy, even when he talks about Cav.

Greipel is an a$$hole, visible for everybody at least since his attitude towards Sinkewitz during 2009s Sachsen-Tour.

 

[Swabian Lass]

In terms of power, he could smoke Cav in a sprint finish.

Hmmm. Not convinced. And I'm no great Cav fan. On a purely personal basis I much prefer Greipel, but assuming they got to the finish together and they were both on form I think that Cav would beat him. It would be interesting to see though.

Sadly, I don't think that we're going to see it in this Tour.