Discussion on the best recent performances at The Tour on the Alpe d'Huez

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Galic Ho said:
I agree. Lance looked mortal in 2010. I have a feeling the BioPassport allowances were reined in a little between 2009 and 2010. Explains a lot of people's performances dropping. Do that and people cannot use as much product as the previously did. Lance looked mortal last year, which is why I believe he retired again. He won a single race in his comeback, where Levi paced him the entire way against amateurs. Add in Floyd at the ToC and Lance's whole facade was crumbling in. The Shack could not afford a stuff up. Pellizotti and others had been suspended because of their passports (no shock from me, it was kind of obvious). They were pushing the boundaries too far and their improvements showed it.

Floyd I believe did the same. He blew up on stage 16 and then went overboard to try and get it all back the next day. Funny thing is, Carlos Sastre and Perreiro were the only ones who tried and succeeded in stemming some of the lost time. Evans, Menchov, Kloden and Leipheimer were punished savagely. The entire T-Mobile team could not stop the man. The heat had some part in Floyd's success as well. Does anyone know what happened to Floyd on stage 16? It was a hunger bonk right?
What are your opinions about Kloden and his doping strategies? When he seemed to come out of nowhere to place 2nd in the Tour in '04 (though I know that he had previously had some injuries), do you believe that this had a lot to do with the rest of the riders doping less because of the EPO test, but if so, then how was Andreas protected? Also, do you think that he was on a heavy program in '09, but then got off that to avoid detection last year?

I always thought it was interesting too that Kloden did not test positive following his 3rd place in the '07 TT, but Vino did (and Kaschekin did later). Does anyone think that they were on different programs, or that Kloden just got lucky?

I think that Lance had to retire again anyway. There is that thing called age you know!

Floyd said that he had a hunger bonk I believe on stage 16. To have a bad day then wasn't that out of the blue perhaps, considering that stage 15 was tough and there were many climbs before the final cat 1 on stage 16. It was more that he was losing a minute per km that was surprising (the amount that he cracked was huge) and maybe a little abnormal.

Maybe the stage 17 result wasn't that out of the blue. I mean, there were a lot of interesting combination of factors, regardless of the doping. There was a very tired peleton from 2 very hard days of mountain racing, and how often are there 3 consecutive VERY hard days in the mountains? Add to that the heat. Add to that the fact that some of the top teams didn't have a full squad, therefore less fire power to combat the strong Landis. Add to that, that there seemed to be very little flat stretches on stage 17, where normally the big group will gobble up the breakway. Most mountain stages tend to have a long stretch of flat road; for example the lead into the Alp du'ez always seems to have at least 20 kms of flat road, but stage 17 in '06 just seemed to be ascending and descending.
 
Galic Ho said:
Floyd I believe did the same. He blew up on stage 16 and then went overboard to try and get it all back the next day. Funny thing is, Carlos Sastre and Perreiro were the only ones who tried and succeeded in stemming some of the lost time. Evans, Menchov, Kloden and Leipheimer were punished savagely. The entire T-Mobile team could not stop the man. The heat had some part in Floyd's success as well. Does anyone know what happened to Floyd on stage 16? It was a hunger bonk right?
I think it was dehydration. It was super hot that week. I think it is also the reason why during stage 17 he drank so much. He was determined to not let it happen again.
 
Granville57 said:
Thanks for these links. I am/will slowly get through them.

At this time of me developing a greater awareness of the LA advantages, there seem to be 3 things that people have pointed out (somewhere or other):

1. Exclusive access to some kind of wonderdrug (HemAssist) that was not as positive to performances as EPO, but was undetectable.
2. Protection from cycling authorities that was not given to other riders.
3. Lance was given allowances to manage his own testosterone levels as a result of losing a testicle during his cancer/treatment.

I would like to hear some general comments about these 3 points. And if Lance was given protection then why even need HemAssist (if he could use EPO while others could not)?
 
gregrowlerson said:
Thanks for these links. I am/will slowly get through them.

At this time of me developing a greater awareness of the LA advantages, there seem to be 3 things that people have pointed out (somewhere or other):

1. Exclusive access to some kind of wonderdrug (HemAssist) that was not as positive to performances as EPO, but was undetectable.
2. Protection from cycling authorities that was not given to other riders.
3. Lance was given allowances to manage his own testosterone levels as a result of losing a testicle during his cancer/treatment.

I would like to hear some general comments about these 3 points. And if Lance was given protection then why even need HemAssist (if he could use EPO while others could not)?
Number 3 is bogus. Some have alleged that Armstrong had TUEs resulting from his cancer treatment, but it is not true. He would not need a TUE for testosterone since one testicle provides enough.
 
Personally I don't care about Armstrong just doping (regarding reports in the SI article that he doped before cancer such as the 9 to 1 testosterone level), but that/if he had unfair advantages over his rivals. Interesting to read the questioning of whether HemAssist would/does really assist or not too.
 
BroDeal said:
Number 3 is bogus. Some have alleged that Armstrong had TUEs resulting from his cancer treatment, but it is not true. He would not need a TUE for testosterone since one testicle provides enough.
Thanks for pointing that out.

The Poppovich, Ferrari, customs, HemAssist stuff is all very interesting.

My main interest is in trying to work out how LA defeated JU at the TDF (if he didn't have as much natural ability)?

I think that the HemAssist thing would make for a great movie! Sports star stumbles across banned drug that can work wonders for him that nobody else knows about........

Someone could win an Oscar out of this mess.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I think it was dehydration. It was super hot that week. I think it is also the reason why during stage 17 he drank so much. He was determined to not let it happen again.
Cheers. I was hoping one day to hear some of Floyds discussions with the USADA in detail. Like what he used on the night of stage 16 after his flop. The major specifics of blood doping (all the ins and outs, the nitty gritty details). But that can wait, it will come out one day. I had heard Floyd knew the heat the next day would favour him. You are right, that week was exceedingly hot.

@Greg. Regarding Kloden I think Alpe in 06 reveals a lot. He always liked someone else being leader. In 04 it was two Germans against the Kazakh. Jan and Andreas chased Vino down on one stage. Idiocy. If he has someone next to him, he does well, that is the short version of it. When he doesn't, there is something mentally missing. Lance has it (had it), Jan had it and so does AC. Jan helped AC in the 08 Giro if I remember accurately. The guy has peaks and troughs. Some times he is very strong, others he just helps whoever is boss.

The Freiburg details regarding T-Mobile in 06 are old news but interesting. Apparently the team members not sanctioned (at least 3 or 4) all went across the border the day before the Tour to get a top up of blood...or so the rumours go. Kloden was amongst them. Guy was a child prodigy, like Jan. They were kids when the East German doping machine was winding down. After affects of the system were still in place. Fairly natural to assume he was overseen from an early stage by people well versed with the benefits of that system in pro sport. That machine/system is partly why Germany hates doping. IMO, T-Mobile were on something really special. Jan had the added pressure of being leader. Kessler for one was an amazing domestique. He was incredible to watch that year. I cannot help but think 06 ended up the way it did because Floyd and Perreiro wanted victory more than Andreas. Floyd, for obvious reasons and Oscar wanted it for Valverde and Spain. Andreas till a day before the TOur knew he was not numero uno. The plan was Jan and Jan looked really good. I also cannot help but wonder how good Valverde would have been had he not fallen cheaply and broken his collarbone. After all, he's now serving a ban for his blood taken from around that period by Fuentes. Good times...I might actually go back and watch that Alpe stage from 06 and then 08...see if I can spot something new!
 
Something a little different now...

As we seem to think that the 2008 Tour was a little less doped, then I would like to explore the other major MTF from that Tour, the finish at Hautacam. Does anyone know the times that the GC guys climbed for it that year, and also in 2000 when LA decimated the field? It would be interesting to know what these were.

Below are the results of that stage 10 in '08 (I included the top 30 so that some could enjoy remembering a tough day in the saddle for Baby Schelck!):

1 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saunier Duval - Scott 4.19.27 (36.08 km/h)
2 Juan Jose Cobo Acebo (Spa) Saunier Duval - Scott
3 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 0.28
4 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.06
5 Vladimir Efimkin (Rus) AG2R La Mondiale 2.05
6 Riccardo Riccò (Ita) Saunier Duval - Scott 2.17
7 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
8 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank
10 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30
11 Moises Dueñas Nevado (Spa) Barloworld 2.27
12 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 2.49
13 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 3.40
14 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 3.58
15 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia 4.19
16 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 5.22
17 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) AG2R La Mondiale 5.27
18 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre 5.51
19 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 5.52
20 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank 5.54
21 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 6.41
22 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 7.03
23 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone
24 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas
25 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Columbia 7.34
26 Stefan Schumacher (Ger) Gerolsteiner 7.38
27 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 8.13
28 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 8.59
29 Rémy Di Grégorio (Fra) Française des Jeux 9.09
30 Jérémy Roy (Fra) Française des Jeux

And stage 10 in 2000 (with the GREAT man lol):

1 Javier Otxoa (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 6.09.32 (33.29 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 0.42
3 José Maria Jimenez (Spa) Banesto 1.13
4 Richard Virenque (Fra) Team Polti 1.57
5 Manuel Beltran (Spa) Mapei-Quick Step
6 Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 2.02
7 Roberto Heras (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca
8 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Festina 3.05
9 Joseba Beloki (Spa) Festina 3.35
10 Alex Zulle (Swi) Banesto 3.47
11 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Banesto
12 Kurt Van De Wouwer (Bel) Lotto-Adecco 3.55
13 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Deutsche Telekom 4.01
14 Michele Bartoli (Ita) Mapei-Quick Step 4.18
15 Geert Verheyen (Bel) Lotto-Adecco 4.52
16 Dariusz Baranowski (Pol) Banesto
17 Angel Casero (Spa) Festina
18 Michaël Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 5.14
19 Peter Luttenberger (Aut) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank
20 Daniele Nardello (Ita) Mapei-Quick Step 5.44
21 Marco Pantani (Ita) Mercatone Uno-Albacom 5.52
22 Nico Mattan (Bel) Cofidis 7.09
23 Abraham Olano (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 7.26
24 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Saeco-Valli & Valli
25 Mario Aerts (Bel) Lotto-Adecco
26 Félix Garcia Casas (Spa) Festina 8.17
27 Pascal Herve (Fra) Team Polti 8.40
28 Laurent Jalabert (Fra) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 8.45
29 Guido Trentin (Ita) Vini Caldirola-Sidermec
30 Rik Verbrugghe (Bel) Lotto-Adecco
31 David Etxebarria (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 9.16
32 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Team Deutsche Telekom 10.00
33 Bo Hamburger (Den) Memorycard-Jack & Jones 10.27
34 Marc Wauters (Bel) Rabobank
35 Roland Meier (Swi) Cofidis 10.38
36 David Millar (GBr) Cofidis 10.51
37 Javier Pascual Llorente (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 11.06
38 Marcos Serrano (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 11.24
39 Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal Service 12.02
40 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Banesto 12.26

Take note of the 40th placed rider in 2000 :)
 
Galic Ho said:
Cheers. I was hoping one day to hear some of Floyds discussions with the USADA in detail. Like what he used on the night of stage 16 after his flop. The major specifics of blood doping (all the ins and outs, the nitty gritty details). But that can wait, it will come out one day. I had heard Floyd knew the heat the next day would favour him. You are right, that week was exceedingly hot.

@Greg. Regarding Kloden I think Alpe in 06 reveals a lot. He always liked someone else being leader. In 04 it was two Germans against the Kazakh. Jan and Andreas chased Vino down on one stage. Idiocy. If he has someone next to him, he does well, that is the short version of it. When he doesn't, there is something mentally missing. Lance has it (had it), Jan had it and so does AC. Jan helped AC in the 08 Giro if I remember accurately. The guy has peaks and troughs. Some times he is very strong, others he just helps whoever is boss.

The Freiburg details regarding T-Mobile in 06 are old news but interesting. Apparently the team members not sanctioned (at least 3 or 4) all went across the border the day before the Tour to get a top up of blood...or so the rumours go. Kloden was amongst them. Guy was a child prodigy, like Jan. They were kids when the East German doping machine was winding down. After affects of the system were still in place. Fairly natural to assume he was overseen from an early stage by people well versed with the benefits of that system in pro sport. That machine/system is partly why Germany hates doping. IMO, T-Mobile were on something really special. Jan had the added pressure of being leader. Kessler for one was an amazing domestique. He was incredible to watch that year. I cannot help but think 06 ended up the way it did because Floyd and Perreiro wanted victory more than Andreas. Floyd, for obvious reasons and Oscar wanted it for Valverde and Spain. Andreas till a day before the TOur knew he was not numero uno. The plan was Jan and Jan looked really good. I also cannot help but wonder how good Valverde would have been had he not fallen cheaply and broken his collarbone. After all, he's now serving a ban for his blood taken from around that period by Fuentes. Good times...I might actually go back and watch that Alpe stage from 06 and then 08...see if I can spot something new!
But Kloden on the Alp du'ez was very strong in '06 - looking like a TRUE team leader! And the chasing down of Vino was '05, but I know what you are referring to there (and Vino would have forgiven him after '07 :D). I don't think that Andreas has mentally cracked as a leader, but I would say that he is not on quite the same level of rider as Ullrich, Armstrong, AC. He is on the level of Evans. Actually I've always thought that he and Evans were similar riders too. Good in the TT's, and strong in the mountains, but without usually having the acceleration to match the top few in the GC. Both pretty good at limiting their losses once they have been dropped.

In '08 Kloden had some bad luck, but still rode well as a domestique. After getting sick and cracking on stages 14 and 15 in the Giro (prior to that he was looking at a potential podium finish), he rode for some more stages to support AC. And later in the Vuelta he may have been able to finish top 5, but in an early stage he was involved in a crash and lost 4 minutes, ending his chances. From then on he did some good work on the front for AC and Levi who finished 1-2. I have read that Klodi did a lot of work on the road to Angliru for example (where he eventually lost 10 more minutes). His 2 ITT's were both solid - about 10th place finishers. He finished 20th overall because of the crash and then the support riding that he did. So his 2008 results are very misleading as to the quality of much of his riding.

So like Cadel he also has some bad luck. :D

I read a bit about the Frieburg stuff. It's quite fortunate (or unfortunate if you don't like the guy) that he got off, especially as most cyclists have been punished a lot for questionable actions ever since LA retired in '05.

I remember Kessler's gut busting efforts well from that '06 tour. I think that all 7 T-Mobile riders were probably in the top 20 strongest of that race - all seemed to have a really strong effort at one time or another. Kloden and Rogers in the top 10 overall, Ghonchar winning the TT's, Mazzolini riding well on the Alp du'ez, Sinkewitz hanging with Landis for a while on stage 17 and Kessler with his relentless agression at the front of the peleton in the mountains. I am forgetting their 7th rider?

It is easy to forget about Valverdje in '06, and yes he did have a chance to do well. Personally I do not think that he would have won, but he would have been another rider throwing his hat into the ring for a possible top 5 finish.

Still hard to believe that they let Oscar have half an hour. Should NEVER have happened. Why not just ride hard for the last 50 kms of the stage and only give him 20 minutes, making sure that he cannot be a factor? I know that his form in the Pyrenees was attrocious (so actually, what sauce did he get on in the Alps?!), but the guy was a previous top 10 GC rider.

I might watch that '06 Alp du'ez stage again too - only then I'd have to also watch stages 16 and 17 of course. :D

What a Tour that was!

As for '08; I don't even have that in my DVD collection. I recall it as being a little dull. Hautacam wasn't all that interesting and du'ez was nice to see Sastre ride so well, but most of the other guys didn't really ride it properly.
 
Oct 1, 2010
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webvan said:
Yes, what a climb that was, epic and endless and everyone was spent, Evans, Cunego, Moreau, Kloden, dragging along, except for Landis and Perreiro actually!
And Sastre - from memory he got away from the rest and finished 2nd behind Landis.
 
True, but barely and he also looked like he was about to die on the way up and he lost a minute on the way down to Morzine. In 1997 the climb didn't look that hard, in 2000 it was the scene of the only documented "got dropped" uniballer v1.0 in the TDF.
 
Not sure where my posts from last night disappeared to. Anyway, I thought it relevant to bring up the times on Hautacam as part of this discussion, especially as they went there in '08 and I would like to annalyse more the potentially lower standards of THAT tour. Does anyone know the times on the climb of Hautacam from the GC guys in '08, '00, '96 and '94? Below are the top 40 on the stage 10 of '08 (included 30 to give some fans joy at reliving a rare AS tough day in the saddle at the TDF!):

1 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saunier Duval - Scott 4.19.27 (36.08 km/h)
2 Juan Jose Cobo Acebo (Spa) Saunier Duval - Scott
3 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 0.28
4 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.06
5 Vladimir Efimkin (Rus) AG2R La Mondiale 2.05
6 Riccardo Riccò (Ita) Saunier Duval - Scott 2.17
7 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
8 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank
10 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30
11 Moises Dueñas Nevado (Spa) Barloworld 2.27
12 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 2.49
13 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 3.40
14 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 3.58
15 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia 4.19
16 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 5.22
17 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) AG2R La Mondiale 5.27
18 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre 5.51
19 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 5.52
20 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank 5.54
21 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 6.41
22 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 7.03
23 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone
24 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas
25 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Columbia 7.34
26 Stefan Schumacher (Ger) Gerolsteiner 7.38
27 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 8.13
28 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 8.59
29 Rémy Di Grégorio (Fra) Française des Jeux 9.09
30 Jérémy Roy (Fra) Française des Jeux

And the top 40 finishers on stage 10 of 2000 (with the Great man decimating the field!) was:

1 Javier Otxoa (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 6.09.32 (33.29 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 0.42
3 José Maria Jimenez (Spa) Banesto 1.13
4 Richard Virenque (Fra) Team Polti 1.57
5 Manuel Beltran (Spa) Mapei-Quick Step
6 Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 2.02
7 Roberto Heras (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca
8 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Festina 3.05
9 Joseba Beloki (Spa) Festina 3.35
10 Alex Zulle (Swi) Banesto 3.47
11 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Banesto
12 Kurt Van De Wouwer (Bel) Lotto-Adecco 3.55
13 Jan Ullrich (Ger) Team Deutsche Telekom 4.01
14 Michele Bartoli (Ita) Mapei-Quick Step 4.18
15 Geert Verheyen (Bel) Lotto-Adecco 4.52
16 Dariusz Baranowski (Pol) Banesto
17 Angel Casero (Spa) Festina
18 Michaël Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 5.14
19 Peter Luttenberger (Aut) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank
20 Daniele Nardello (Ita) Mapei-Quick Step 5.44
21 Marco Pantani (Ita) Mercatone Uno-Albacom 5.52
22 Nico Mattan (Bel) Cofidis 7.09
23 Abraham Olano (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 7.26
24 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Saeco-Valli & Valli
25 Mario Aerts (Bel) Lotto-Adecco
26 Félix Garcia Casas (Spa) Festina 8.17
27 Pascal Herve (Fra) Team Polti 8.40
28 Laurent Jalabert (Fra) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 8.45
29 Guido Trentin (Ita) Vini Caldirola-Sidermec
30 Rik Verbrugghe (Bel) Lotto-Adecco
31 David Etxebarria (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 9.16
32 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Team Deutsche Telekom 10.00
33 Bo Hamburger (Den) Memorycard-Jack & Jones 10.27
34 Marc Wauters (Bel) Rabobank
35 Roland Meier (Swi) Cofidis 10.38
36 David Millar (GBr) Cofidis 10.51
37 Javier Pascual Llorente (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 11.06
38 Marcos Serrano (Spa) O.N.C.E.-Deutsche Bank 11.24
39 Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal Service 12.02
40 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Banesto 12.26

Check out the 40th placed rider.
 
Googling 'cyclismag' and the name of the climb often gives some results. Cyclismag is in French but its mostly the names and numbers you are trying to take

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=4348

I think its the second set of times for Hautacam that are comparable to previous years, ie timed from the same point. Piepoli and Cobo's 37.30 compares to Riis' 34.35 in 1996 and Leblanc's 35.22 in 1994. Both of those previous occasions saw the Hautacam be the only climb in the stage whereas 2008 saw a tough ascent of the Tourmalet first. The article then says that a better comparison might be with 2000 when the stage went over the Marie-Blanque and Aubisque before Armstrong turned up a 36.25.

The group of main favourites in 2008 (Evans, Sastre) did 39.47. You have to be a bit careful when going further down as CSC had engineered a split and so Cunego, Valverde were already a couple of minutes behind at the bottom of the climb.
 
Frosty said:
Googling 'cyclismag' and the name of the climb often gives some results. Cyclismag is in French but its mostly the names and numbers you are trying to take

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=4348

I think its the second set of times for Hautacam that are comparable to previous years, ie timed from the same point. Piepoli and Cobo's 37.30 compares to Riis' 34.35 in 1996 and Leblanc's 35.22 in 1994. Both of those previous occasions saw the Hautacam be the only climb in the stage whereas 2008 saw a tough ascent of the Tourmalet first. The article then says that a better comparison might be with 2000 when the stage went over the Marie-Blanque and Aubisque before Armstrong turned up a 36.25.

The group of main favourites in 2008 (Evans, Sastre) did 39.47. You have to be a bit careful when going further down as CSC had engineered a split and so Cunego, Valverde were already a couple of minutes behind at the bottom of the climb.
Thanks for posting these times.

I am surprised that LA was only 1:05 faster than the '08 leaders (although more than 3 minutes on the GC guys). Shows how out of form Ullrich was in 2000 - and that he struggled in the rain of course. The '94 and '96 times are not surprising, especially given that it was the only climb of the day.
 

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