Disturbing Horner interview

[mulletCobra]

Troy Aikman'd

Even though this isn't a laughing matter, I lol'd at this comment.

He was completely out of it. Can't believe he was allowed to continue riding..

 

[mewmewmew13]

Apologies if this is on an earlier page but in case there is any doubt as to Bruyneel seeing what shape Chris was in....
...in JB's own words...
"We had a few guys right there: Levi, Haimar, Markel and of course Chris. He was the worst. When I got there, he was lying in a ditch and was very shaken. It was obvious he'd hit very hard. He finished the stage and I think basically he's OK physically ... But we're taking him to the hospital to have a scan. He doesn't really know where he is right now or what happened. We'll see what the results are but I fear the worst."

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm one of the people on here who actually like Chris, so this was tough to watch. I can't imagine him being able to continue and I hope he's okay. Scary indeed.

 

[ggusta]

There are some serious criminal negligence and duty of care issues brought up by this incident. There is no way that Horner should have been allowed back on his bike, neither by the race doctors nor by his team. Sending him off to race that last 25km could easily have been sending him off to his death, I am astounded that he made it to the finish line.

I can more or less 'get' the doctors, even though that is sort of backwards under the pace of events. The team ought to be ashamed. They bear a greater duty. their rider is like family. The Dr.'s are less than fluent in American-English and as a marshall at a race, the first thing any racer says when they crash, "I'm fine." I was ready to smack a fellow marshall who thought that was satisfactory to let a crashed racer to get up and just ride away. The race was over (last lap of course when things are wild), the bike was pretty much toast but rideable, the guys kit was shredded. Just stop for a second and let us give you the once over. Nope, the other marshall just gave him the green light and away he went. We (males) are conditioned to get up and say we're fine. This was not the time for that.

 

[VeloGirl]

The race doctor, the team doctor, Bruyneel and RadioShack should be counting their lucky stars Horner didn't fall off his bike and die - and that's no joke. His concussion was serious. It's a bruised brain.
Keeping him in the hospital over night to make sure the brain isn't swelling is the only common sense thing that has happened since he crashed.

And let's not forget Boonen. His concussion may not have been that obvious during the stage - fine, but at the hotel....he was throwing up, had sensitivity to light and sound and had a bad headache. He should have been at the hospital as well.

 

[BillytheKid]

Apologies if this is on an earlier page but in case there is any doubt as to Bruyneel seeing what shape Chris was in....
...in JB's own words...
"We had a few guys right there: Levi, Haimar, Markel and of course Chris. He was the worst. When I got there, he was lying in a ditch and was very shaken. It was obvious he'd hit very hard. He finished the stage and I think basically he's OK physically ... But we're taking him to the hospital to have a scan. He doesn't really know where he is right now or what happened. We'll see what the results are but I fear the worst."

For sure. Even if Horner was insisting on it. No excuses for JB.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The race doctor, the team doctor, Bruyneel and RadioShack should be counting their lucky stars Horner didn't fall off his bike and die - and that's no joke. .

That's a good point, brought up by others as well. At the end of the day it's a bike race he wasn't going to win at that point. So if he was in that bad of shape, why allow him to keep riding at all? I shudder to think what would have happened if he had gone down again.

 

[BYOP88]

Tough break for the old man, I highly doubt he was going to win it but I think he could've improved on last years showing. I don't think he should start/be allowed to start tomorrow(tough break in what probably could be his last TdF), it seemed like he'd just done 10 rounds with Ali swiftly followed with another 10 against Tyson.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Apologies if this is on an earlier page but in case there is any doubt as to Bruyneel seeing what shape Chris was in....
...in JB's own words...
"We had a few guys right there: Levi, Haimar, Markel and of course Chris. He was the worst. When I got there, he was lying in a ditch and was very shaken. It was obvious he'd hit very hard. He finished the stage and I think basically he's OK physically ... But we're taking him to the hospital to have a scan. He doesn't really know where he is right now or what happened. We'll see what the results are but I fear the worst."

He may have been trying to differentiate between apparent physical injuries like bruising or broken bones, from 'mental' injuries like a concussion?



For me, this episode is disturbing on a few levels. As a fan of the sport, I hate to see the riders I admire either mismanaged, misdiagnosed, and everywhere in between, but at the same time respect every parties desire to let the riders ride without interference.

As an athlete, I have, and I'm sure many here have, misunderstood or lied about our own ailments to get back out there. I've never had an injury this severe, but I'm always afraid for my own ability to "draw the line" when assessing my own health. Horner is just an extreme example.

Finally, as a teammate, I do look down on those who can't seem to "suck it up". I'm afraid that I would be the guy urging a teammate that I am counting on to get back in the race before a true assessment of their well being.

Again, Horner is an extreme example, one that I've been lucky not be anywhere near. But, as this year has shown, it only takes one day to drastically change a life.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He may have been trying to differentiate between apparent physical injuries like bruising or broken bones, from 'mental' injuries like a concussion?

Chris apparently suffered a broke nose as well. Makes me wonder how well they examined him before letting him ride again? Or whether (hopefully) JB wasn't making any decisions and it was the doctors, who failed to fully inform him. Who knows.

 

[craig1985]

This is absolutely appalling. Looking at the video I think it's pretty clear that he is in post-traumatic amnesia, which is indicative of a brain injury of some sort. He should have gone straight to hospital **immediately** without passing go or collecting £200. There might well have been something bleeding away in there that would require immediate surgery. I have, unfortunately, personal experience of this and I know what I'm talking about here. If he's still in PTA more than half an hour after the accident then that's potentially suggesting a quite serious head injury.

On the other side, I also unfortunately have experience of French doctors' English abilities. My wife was in the neurosurgery unit of the main hospital in Grenoble, which takes all the head injuries from the French Alps (all the skiers and climbers). Only one of the doctors on the unit spoke any language apart from French: the rest, despite the location of the hospital, didn't even speak German or Italian, let alone English. How they stay up to date with research I do not know. Mind-boggling.

Yeah but if you have a serious crash/accident in the UK, America, Australia, or New Zealand, and you don't speak English, or at least your fluency isn't that great, how many doctors are you going to find that speak another language? At least in the States if you speak Spanish as your mother tongue, at least in some states you will be fine, and in Quebec if you speak French, again not a problem, but you would be up the creek without a paddle in Australia if don't speak English.

Anyway I'm rambling, I recently read about Emilio Ravasio who crashed and died from a brain injury, it happened in Sicily and they had to drive a few hundred km to find a hospital (in Palermo) that had the right equipment to deal with his head injury. His brother was of the opinion that if the accident happened in Northern Italy Emilio would have survived. When I heard about Horner's crash (I didn't watch the stage last night), this immediately sprung to mind.

 

[VeloGirl]

To all those who are saying it could have been a language barrier - I don't buy it.
Even if all you speak is French, as a doctor - you should be able to tell that a man lying unconscious in a ditch should not get back on a bike. You don't need language to check someone's pupils for dilation. You don't need language to have the rider look to the right and then to the left and check to see if his eyes are following your pen - or whatever you're using.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Else, how would doctors examine unconscious people?

 

[oncehadhair]

The criticisms of the people responsible for putting him back on his bike may be justified.

But noone posting here was there and saw horner immediately after he fell. Adrenalin can mask both mental and physical injuries and, as mentioned earlier, there is pressure on all decision makers to allow the riders to continue.

Its easy to be critical in hindsight. And its pointless worrying about what might have happened, better to deal in reality.

 

[Race Radio]

It appeared that Chris was at the head doctors car for a long time. Gerard Porte was let go just prior to the Tour this year so who knows what the experience of the new guy was.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

To all those who are saying it could have been a language barrier - I don't buy it.
Even if all you speak is French, as a doctor - you should be able to tell that a man lying unconscious in a ditch should not get back on a bike. You don't need language to check someone's pupils for dilation. You don't need language to have the rider look to the right and then to the left and check to see if his eyes are following your pen - or whatever you're using.

It would also just be safe business to hire some semi-multilingual doctor or medical team for an international event. But I have no idea on the reality of the arrangement of the tour.

 

[thehog]

It would also just be safe business to hire some semi-multilingual doctor or medical team for an international event. But I have no idea on the reality of the arrangement of the tour.

When all else fails blame the French?

Give me a break. The Doctor and medical team speak French, Italian, Spanish and English.

Horner speaks Spanish also. Wiggins speaks French.

What are you guys on?

 

[ggusta]

When all else fails blame the French?

Give me a break. The Doctor and medical team speak French, Italian, Spanish and English.

Horner speaks Spanish also. Wiggins speaks French.

What are you guys on?

as was said, it's all so easy in hindsight. we all know how to race, winning a gt is apparently child's play for many of us, we know how to be a DS, how to clean up the sport, how to save lives, how to do everything, it's a wonder we are just on a message board.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

When all else fails blame the French?

Give me a break. The Doctor and medical team speak French, Italian, Spanish and English.

Horner speaks Spanish also. Wiggins speaks French.

What are you guys on?

Relax, I was trying to make the point that the Tour inevitably has a very competent medical team in terms of different languages, and why blaming a language barrier between doctors and riders for Horner's situation is stupid.

I only said I don't know the facts because I do indeed not know the facts, a sometimes neglected tag on this board.

 

[craig1985]

When all else fails blame the French?

Give me a break. The Doctor and medical team speak French, Italian, Spanish and English.

Horner speaks Spanish also. Wiggins speaks French.

What are you guys on?

How fluent are they?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

How fluent are they?

Not fluent enough to ask him a few questions to assess his mental state.

 

[the delgados]

as was said, it's all so easy in hindsight. we all know how to race, winning a gt is apparently child's play for many of us, we know how to be a DS, how to clean up the sport, how to save lives, how to do everything, it's a wonder we are just on a message board.

Sigh. You forgot to add, "In you're mother's basement." You're supposed to say you're a nobody posting from your mom's basement!

I don't know--speaking as one of those nobody's you must admit that JB looked a little sheepish when a reporter asked him to repeat the gibberish he said he heard coming from Horner after the crash. He actually looked away, as if to say, "Yeah, I was the dumbass who let him ride.

 

[thehog]

How fluent are they?

Thanks Aussie Gold.

Once you've lived in Europe you may begin to understand.

An Australian lecturing me on speaking more than one language. Come on, please. Give it a rest. From the one nation which speaks nothing but English.

 

[ggusta]

Sigh. You forgot to add, "In you're mother's basement." You're supposed to say you're a nobody posting from your mom's basement!

I don't know--speaking as one of those nobody's you must admit that JB looked a little sheepish when a reporter asked him to repeat the gibberish he said he heard coming from Horner after the crash. He actually looked away, as if to say, "Yeah, I was the dumbass who let him ride.

I almost feel sorry for JB for how crappy he must feel right now. Almost.

PS: I am in a very nicely appointed loft that was paid for with my and my wife's money and no one else's, but yes, the point is well made.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

An Australian lecturing me on speaking more than one language. Come on, please. Give it a rest. From the one nation which speaks nothing but English.

They speak two languages, English and Strine.