Disturbing Horner interview

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Mr. O'Clock

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Jun 19, 2011
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I put my faith in the TdF doctors, Bruyneel and Horner. We are talking Tour here. remember Eddy, Bernard Hinault, Maertens. all fine while participating with injuries. Most likely if there is serious injury with Chris, his girlfriend, DS Johann, and the team doctor will make the correct decision for Chris' injury.
I worry more about the individuals in the forum that feel it is funny when a Radioshack rider is hurt. sometimes individuals here kind of scare us when they think injured riders are hurt especially Radioshack riders, Cav etc.
 
May 27, 2011
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thehog said:
Thanks Aussie Gold.

Once you've lived in Europe you may begin to understand.

An Australian lecturing me on speaking more than one language. Come on, please. Give it a rest. From the one nation which speaks nothing but English.
Australia is a multicultural country, not all of us speak only English (I also speak French and Italian).
 
May 23, 2011
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Mr. O'Clock said:
I put my faith in the TdF doctors, Bruyneel and Horner. We are talking Tour here. remember Eddy, Bernard Hinault, Maertens. all fine while participating with injuries. Most likely if there is serious injury with Chris, his girlfriend, DS Johann, and the team doctor will make the correct decision for Chris' injury.
I worry more about the individuals in the forum that feel it is funny when a Radioshack rider is hurt. sometimes individuals here kind of scare us when they think injured riders are hurt especially Radioshack riders, Cav etc.
I nominate this as dumbest post of the week.
 
Oct 28, 2010
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I don't buy the language barrier reasoning either. There is simply no way that at a race of this magnitude, the race doctor does not speak English. If he doesn't, then a large portion of the peloton can be treated but not effectively. I can't imagine Le Tour taking such risks.

I also don't buy the the "I can continue because I'm a man" theory (that's not a direct quote, by the way). Sometimes riders do push through because they don't want to quit, but head injuries are different. You simply can't put on a convincing enough facade here to fool the team or doctor. Which means...

... I'm even more confused than I was to begin with. Bruyneel admits in the video that Horner was lying in a ditch shaking after the crash, AND that he didn't know where he was or what happened at the crash site or during his ride to the finish. Surely at some point, team management realised there was a serious problem? They must have known Horner was not in a fit state to ride, yet let him continue. How?

As for the race doctor, there must be an unenviable amount of pressure on him to let a rider continue. The rider wants to (even when he's spaced out) and the team certainly wants him to. But at some point surely you have to make a medical decision? One would hope the doc asked Horner the right questions to ascertain his true mental state. While that may not have been immediately apparent, if Horner spent a long time with him (as is alleged), then surely the doc must have realised something wasn't right? Yet he let Horner continue.

Assuming the doc saw Horner and thought he was fit to continue, it obviously became apparent on the ride to the finish that this dude was out of it. Why didn't the team communicate this to the doc? Surely the team has a duty of care to protect their employees?

I simply don't know how this happened, or for that matter how Boonen was allowed to continue. Is it simply that the race doctors and teams aren't used to dealing with such injuries? I don't recall a season where there has been such a large number of serious head injuries in major races as this one. Do they simply not know the symptoms? Having a rider seriously injured or die is not good for anyone. It's not good for the rider (obviously), it's not good for the team, it's not good for the sponsor, and it's not good for the race.

But this is just my opinion, made up in my room. I wish it was from my mother's basement, though. That would be a beautiful cliche!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mr. O'Clock said:
I put my faith in the TdF doctors, Bruyneel and Horner. We are talking Tour here. remember Eddy, Bernard Hinault, Maertens. all fine while participating with injuries. Most likely if there is serious injury with Chris, his girlfriend, DS Johann, and the team doctor will make the correct decision for Chris' injury.
I worry more about the individuals in the forum that feel it is funny when a Radioshack rider is hurt. sometimes individuals here kind of scare us when they think injured riders are hurt especially Radioshack riders, Cav etc.
-sniff-sniff-...you smell that? DO YOU SMELL THAT? BPC! Nothing else in the world smells like that...I love the smell of BPC in the morning.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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thehog said:
janibrajkovic Where is the hero, who is gonna neutralize the race, now? Hypocrates
about 11 hours ago


- Go Jani - Go tell LeOpard.
I did not quote your post where you said Lance would only have Kloden to hook up with when he arrived. It was very nice for you to take fun in the fact that these guys went down. I am so happy you are happy at their demise. What an actual class act you have become Boss Hogz. Take time and clear your bucket before you come up with some more great predictions. :eek:
 

Mr. O'Clock

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Jun 19, 2011
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Thoughtforfood said:
-sniff-sniff-...you smell that? DO YOU SMELL THAT? BPC! Nothing else in the world smells like that...I love the smell of BPC in the morning.
all I am saying is it is not funny when someone gets hurt. people here post pictures of hurt sportsmen. please, tell me, explain the humor?
 
May 6, 2009
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thehog said:
Thanks Aussie Gold.

Once you've lived in Europe you may begin to understand.

An Australian lecturing me on speaking more than one language. Come on, please. Give it a rest. From the one nation which speaks nothing but English.
Don't you dare patronize me, I'm not an Australian citizen either, ****, and BTW, I've traveled heaps, to countries (up to 20 so far) where I'm lucky to find a person who can speak a word of English. I should know, I spent 36 ****ing hours on a train in China in April, and not one person could speak English, not even the employees on the train, but I was still able to find out what time my train arrived at my destination.

FYI I was asking a genuine question as to how fluent they are, you can speak a language but may not be totally fluent, you can go into the cafe and look up all my contributions in the language thread, judging by how much I ask Libertine about various languages. I know a girl in China and she can speak English to a very good level, but she isn't fluent.

Stop talking yourself up and acting like an insider (September 5 anybody?), I bet when I'm fully fit I could drop you like a sack of potatoes on any decent hill.

But hey, whatever.
 
orbis_25 said:
I don't buy the language barrier reasoning either. There is simply no way that at a race of this magnitude, the race doctor does not speak English. If he doesn't, then a large portion of the peloton can be treated but not effectively. I can't imagine Le Tour taking such risks.

I also don't buy the the "I can continue because I'm a man" theory (that's not a direct quote, by the way). Sometimes riders do push through because they don't want to quit, but head injuries are different. You simply can't put on a convincing enough facade here to fool the team or doctor. Which means...

... I'm even more confused than I was to begin with. Bruyneel admits in the video that Horner was lying in a ditch shaking after the crash, AND that he didn't know where he was or what happened at the crash site or during his ride to the finish. Surely at some point, team management realised there was a serious problem? They must have known Horner was not in a fit state to ride, yet let him continue. How?

As for the race doctor, there must be an unenviable amount of pressure on him to let a rider continue. The rider wants to (even when he's spaced out) and the team certainly wants him to. But at some point surely you have to make a medical decision? One would hope the doc asked Horner the right questions to ascertain his true mental state. While that may not have been immediately apparent, if Horner spent a long time with him (as is alleged), then surely the doc must have realised something wasn't right? Yet he let Horner continue.

Assuming the doc saw Horner and thought he was fit to continue, it obviously became apparent on the ride to the finish that this dude was out of it. Why didn't the team communicate this to the doc? Surely the team has a duty of care to protect their employees?

I simply don't know how this happened, or for that matter how Boonen was allowed to continue. Is it simply that the race doctors and teams aren't used to dealing with such injuries? I don't recall a season where there has been such a large number of serious head injuries in major races as this one. Do they simply not know the symptoms? Having a rider seriously injured or die is not good for anyone. It's not good for the rider (obviously), it's not good for the team, it's not good for the sponsor, and it's not good for the race.

But this is just my opinion, made up in my room. I wish it was from my mother's basement, though. That would be a beautiful cliche!
I really think (and hope) that there are some urgent meetings going on right now with and among race officials and medical people after this to start to err on the side of caution before there is an even more unspeakable tragedy.

As for the team, ugh, it would be so easy to pile on the Shack because so many of us despise them. But it's just not a good time for that. Even CONSIDERING allowing him to get back on the bike is just a sin. They have to be tearing themselves up over the error. What's the point of rubbing salt in right now?
 
May 23, 2011
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Mr. O'Clock said:
all I am saying is it is not funny when someone gets hurt. people here post pictures of hurt sportsmen. please, tell me, explain the humor?
And here I thought you were using a thread about concern for Horner's condition to vent a strange and unhealthy Radio Shack persecution complex along with a stupid comparison between Horner riding with a potential brain injury and Merckx or Hinault riding with non-life threatening injuries.
 
Jul 2, 2011
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Disturbing and difficult to watch. He's always in such high spirits.

My buddy crashed and had the same thing happen to his short term memory. When I went to help him he asked what happened. I told him his front wheel slid along a crack in the road and he went down. He said "we were riding bikes?". At that point I knew it was time to call for professional help.

The weird thing was he could function...dial numbers on his cell phone, take shoes off, etc...but he couldn't remember anything I told him for the 20 minutes it took to get him into the CT scanner.

Then after about an hour he was back to normal. Hopefully Chris has a simillarly speedy recovery. Having once had a concussion myself I can't help but think a brief rest from racing my be the safest course of action.
 
Jul 3, 2010
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i have to agree with so many other posters: there is no way in the world he should have been allowed to continue today. on versus, they said the race doc said he wanted to continue and sent an ambulance to ride along with him. but if his brain were swelling, which the confusion was a sign of, he would have needed to be in a hospital immediately. he could have died right there on the course.

i feel like that doctor should be fired. i'm also at a loss at how johan and the rest of the shack could have let him continue (and i am not a hater but a fan of rs). this seems like incredible irresponsibility all around, and we're just lucky that horner did not die today because he wasn't taken immediately to a hospital.

it's a heartbreaking video to watch. hopefully he has a speedy recovery. so sad to see his hopes for the tour dashed, but thankful that he made it through the day alive, which was no small feat given the lack of appropriate medical care he received.
 
May 14, 2010
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To me it's just really inexplicable that he was allowed to continue riding. I don't understand it.

Why was the doctor fired right before the race, anybody know? And why isn't this one being fired?

The doctor should have total independence and complete impunity from any sort of sanction if he decides to stop a rider or send one to hospital. That's the only way the doctor's role can be an effective one, imo.
 
Sep 19, 2009
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Originally Posted by Thoughtforfood
-sniff-sniff-...you smell that? DO YOU SMELL THAT? BPC! Nothing else in the world smells like that...I love the smell of BPC in the morning.
Mr. O'Clock said:
all I am saying is it is not funny when someone gets hurt. people here post pictures of hurt sportsmen. please, tell me, explain the humor?
You'll notice this is not a denial
 
Nov 2, 2009
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thehog said:
Thanks Aussie Gold.

Once you've lived in Europe you may begin to understand.

An Australian lecturing me on speaking more than one language. Come on, please. Give it a rest. From the one nation which speaks nothing but English.
That great big fat chip about Australia you have on your shoulder is extremely tiresome. Isn't it time to let it go?
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Updated

9:25 PM here. NBC/Versus late report that Horner came up to race doctor's car and said he could not remember what happened, asked if he could continue, they evaluated him allowed him to continue, BUT ASSIGNED AN AMBULANCE W/ A SUGEON TO FOLLOW HIM and small group of riders who where accompanying him including former teammates Gert Steegmans and Andrey Zeits.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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Absolutely criminal that the race "doctor" allowed him to continue.
THe doctor has a license to treat and serve patients above all other concerns.
If a team director makes a mistake, it is not with the same body of training and experience.

Absolutely disgusting that Cancellara had to go to Q.S. car to warn them that Boonen needed to get out of the race. Becasue of head injury.

Who knows? Maybe all the crashes are caused/worsened by the effects of slowed relflexes and ppor concentration of the prior head injuries in this and other races.

The race doctor should be thrown out of the race. And sued.
THe riders union should have their own car and race medics unassociated with the race. THe "race" is trying to put a good face on the many ill conceived and poor decisions about the course, the narrow roads and the sprint bonuses going down 15 places that the rides are blaming for the chaos.

Also, no long TTT or ITT to separate the GC riders, so every day the sprinters are trying to win the stage, the green jersey guys are trying to squeeze in top 1, the GC guys are trying to squeeze in, and the roads are too narrow for two euro cars to pass going opposite directions.

I am sure the riders and teams sign reams of paper to not hold the race resposnible fo rinjuries but this is too much.
Imagine being CHris Horner's family watching this on TV?!?!?!

Oh yeah, sue the hell out of Versus US TV coverage too. SHAME on them!!!
 
BillytheKid said:
9:25 PM here. NBC/Versus late report that Horner came up to race doctor's car and said he could not remember what happened, asked if he could continue, they evaluated him allowed him to continue, BUT ASSIGNED AN AMBULANCE W/ A SUGEON TO FOLLOW HIM and small group of riders who where accompanying him including former teammates Gert Steegmans and Andrey Zeits.
same time zone just caught part of Chris alongside the car also. I was thinking how easy it would have been for him to fall knowing how confused and out of it he was...

I'm hoping we may hear some more on this tomorrow. If not, and something this serious becomes a background or non-issue, then the system has its priorities askew and the riders need more protection for their well-being.
 
therhodeo said:
I can't imagine getting my heart rate super high with a broken nose. That throbbing feeling is bad enough when you're calm.
Hinault went up Luz Ardidens with a broken nose , fought to save his yellow jersey while ahead Lemond was having his temper tantrum , not wanting to wait and help his team leader and john Tesh who knew nothing about cycling and team obligation was jerking our boy into a frenzy .. Ask Hinault he will tell you about riding with a broken nose..
 

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