Do you wear a helmet?

[Hmmmmm]

I used to live in the mid atlantic region of the east coast in the U.S. and everyone wore a helmet. If you did not usually someone would say something. Comments were usually constructive and just questioning.

Now I live in the tornado alley region and I see many more people not wearing helmets. Though many people ride on the roads, there is a good network of cycling friendly and dedicated cycling paths here, even used by roadies, and I'm wondering if the paths cause people to culture a safer mentality when it comes to helmet use?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I used to live in the mid atlantic region of the east coast in the U.S. and everyone wore a helmet. If you did not usually someone would say something. Comments were usually constructive and just questioning.

This is what I have the biggest problem with, total strangers sticking their nose in my business. Why do they feel the need to approach me if I'm not helmeted, which I usually am by the way? More than on one occasion too, last year was the worst. I was out for a helmetless spin around the lake on a path for my ususal day after race recovery ride, early in the morning too, the trail was sparse to say the least, and this guy whom I didn't know at all started criticizing me how I'm setting a bad example. I literally threatened this asswipe with physical violence if he didn't go away. Pffft, some nerve. I don't get it, I really don't.

 

[Hmmmmm]

This is what I have the biggest problem with, total strangers sticking their nose in my business. Why do they feel the need to approach me if I'm not helmeted, which I usually am by the way? More than on one occasion too, last year was the worst. I was out for a helmetless spin around the lake on a path for my ususal day after race recovery ride, early in the morning too, the trail was sparse to say the least, and this guy whom I didn't know at all started criticizing me how I'm setting a bad example. I literally threatened this asswipe with physical violence if he didn't go away. Pffft, some nerve. I don't get it, I really don't.

I feel you. I always (usually ) wear a helmet, BUT, I always mind my own business. Was not trying to spark controversy and I must admit that I have ridden in the past without one and received a lot of comments and grief from those I rode with. My girlfriend always gives me grief if I don't wear one when I stroll around on my mountain bike, or even just take my road bike for a spin around the community after maintenance or repairs. I have had a couple of serious crashes on my road bike so I always suit up with it on. Must admit also that I make my kids wear helmets, and they put it on without questioning it now, but I have gone helmetless when riding with them, though that was when they were younger.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

This is what I have the biggest problem with, total strangers sticking their nose in my business. Why do they feel the need to approach me if I'm not helmeted, which I usually am by the way? More than on one occasion too, last year was the worst. I was out for a helmetless spin around the lake on a path for my ususal day after race recovery ride, early in the morning too, the trail was sparse to say the least, and this guy whom I didn't know at all started criticizing me how I'm setting a bad example. I literally threatened this asswipe with physical violence if he didn't go away. Pffft, some nerve. I don't get it, I really don't.

If I see someone on a bike path sans helmet, I won't think twice about it. So whoever this was that criticized you should probably take it easy in that respect. Although I think your reaction is a little over the top as well. I'm curious to know what this person said to warrant the threat of physical violence. You are correct that it isn't this person's business to tell you to wear a helmet. But it's not like this person was telling you to do anything to harm yourself, they were trying to help however unwanted that help may have been.

Personally, I always wear my helmet. It's not the law, and sure even the nicest ones look goofy, but I'd rather look stupid than take a ride without it.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Although I think your reaction is a little over the top as well. I'm curious to know what this person said to warrant the threat of physical violence. You are correct that it isn't this person's business to tell you to wear a helmet. But it's not like this person was telling you to do anything to harm yourself, they were trying to help however unwanted that help may have been.

Well, seeing that he was a total stranger and started laying into me right off the bat, I actually stuck my hand out and my first words were "Hi, my name is RDV, what's yours?", he totally ignored the gesture and just began rambling, I didn't take kindly to it and asked him what business is it of his to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do on the bike, eventually told him to go fly a kite, then he started screaming at me about his ideals about how cyclists should behave. That's when I told him I was going to send him to the hospital if he didn't ride away. I usually have a very long fuse, but this guy was insane, scary actually. I've had very cordial debates about this with others while riding, this on the other hand was crazy.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Well, seeing that he was a total stranger and started laying into me right off the bat, I actually stuck my hand out and my first words were "Hi, my name is RDV, what's yours?", he totally ignored the gesture and just began rambling, I didn't take kindly to it and asked him what business is it of his to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do on the bike, eventually told him to go fly a kite, then he started screaming at me about his ideals about how cyclists should behave. That's when I told him I was going to send him to the hospital if he didn't ride away. I usually have a very long fuse, but this guy was insane, scary actually. I've had very cordial debates about this with others while riding, this on the other hand was crazy.

This bothers me too, and probably would have set me off a bit.

Doesn't this guy know that we are all "snowflakes"?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

This bothers me too, and probably would have set me off a bit.

Doesn't this guy know that we are all "snowflakes"?

Right! The thing that struck me funny was that it's not as if guy was a veteran of cycling either, you could tell he was a total newb, with some kind of crazy notion that he had to police everybody that wasn't like him, or what he recently read about how to ride your bike in some publication. Really weird experience, probably the craziest encounter since I stopped bike messengering over a decade ago. I've got even more outrageous stories about those days, but I want to keep this thread on topic.

 

[Hmmmmm]

Well, seeing that he was a total stranger and started laying into me right off the bat, I actually stuck my hand out and my first words were "Hi, my name is RDV, what's yours?", he totally ignored the gesture and just began rambling, I didn't take kindly to it and asked him what business is it of his to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do on the bike, eventually told him to go fly a kite, then he started screaming at me about his ideals about how cyclists should behave. That's when I told him I was going to send him to the hospital if he didn't ride away. I usually have a very long fuse, but this guy was insane, scary actually. I've had very cordial debates about this with others while riding, this on the other hand was crazy.

Man, if I had the chance to shake RDV's hand, I would have been honored

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Man, if I had the chance to shake RDV's hand, I would have been honored

Funny! So, would I. If you ever see him though you've got to basically stand in line 20-30 deep of autograph chasers. I'm a big fan, as you can see, but not that desperate. Some day, maybe during non-Classics time you can catch him when he's not so busy.

So I'm back from tooling around today, and I can safely say that because of this thread I'm actually pulling the helmet on more.

 

[Green Tea]

Never ridden with a helmet (10 years, no crashes), just a bandana (Axl Rose-esque) believe it or not, as I sport my United States postal service Stars & stripes National jersey & insanity to other road users.

Its the rebel in me, It can't get out.

Wooly hat in the winter mind.

 

[Black Dog]

Never ridden with a helmet (10 years, no crashes), just a bandana (Axl Rose-esque) believe it or not, as I sport my United States postal service Stars & stripes National jersey & insanity to other road users.

Its the rebel in me, It can't get out.

Wooly hat in the winter mind.

It is funny how we perceive risk, we think that because a long period has passed without incident it shows that we are at a lower risk when, in fact, the longer you go without an accident the greater the statistical odds of having one are. The odds per ride are really low but if you do enough rides you will hit the jack pot. Write your details on the bandana, the first responders will appreciate the gesture.

 

[Green Tea]

It is funny how we perceive risk, we think that because a long period has passed without incident it shows that we are at a lower risk when, in fact, the longer you go without an accident the greater the statistical odds of having one are. The odds per ride are really low but if you do enough rides you will hit the jack pot. Write your details on the bandana, the first responders will appreciate the gesture.

Its just my personal preference. My head keeps much nicer & cooler without an helmet, especially in the warmer climates. Don't wear sunglasses neither. The tan/burn lines isn't a very good look IMO.

 

[Black Dog]

NO worries, just busting your chops a bit. It is your life to live and I respect that. I really do. My only question to you would be who would be affected if you did split your mellon in a crash? Kids, wife etc...?

 

[Fred Thistle]

I came off at 78km/h and bashed my head when I was 18... no helmet.
NOT WEARING A HELMET SAVED MY LIFE

I came off at 25km/h and bashed my helmet when I was 24... (car involvement) the helmet saved me a serious head injury

In the course of 30 years cycling MTBing, Cyclocross, cycle touring in 20 countries, commuting and Couriering (City Messengering for USA'ers) and road racing I have come off countless times- You almost never hit your head.

Bike helmets really make car drivers feel better about running you down!

I hate wearing it...I will when I deem the risk necessary
We all die eventually

 

[Fred Thistle]

Its just my personal preference. My head keeps much nicer & cooler without an helmet, especially in the warmer climates. Don't wear sunglasses neither. The tan/burn lines isn't a very good look IMO.

me too- i don't mind the tan lines so much as love the way it feels- so nice!

 

[The Mayor of BBQ]

I will wear one while MTBing
but never ever on the road

 

[Michielveedeebee]

helmets have saved me more than once. they are optional in california, but not
for me. better safe, than sorry.

so true, optional in Belgium too yet I always wear one.

 

[dsut4392]

It is funny how we perceive risk, we think that because a long period has passed without incident it shows that we are at a lower risk when, in fact, the longer you go without an accident the greater the statistical odds of having one are. The odds per ride are really low but if you do enough rides you will hit the jack pot. Write your details on the bandana, the first responders will appreciate the gesture.

Somebody needs a stats refresher...A probability of .001 doesn't mean if the event hasn't happened in 999 attempts it's certain to happen on the 1000th attempt. Each time you flip a coin, the odds stay the same regardless of how many times you flip it. Flip heads once, 10 times or 10000 times in a row, flipping heads on the next throw still has a probability of 0.5.

Of course, you might argue that complacency increases your risk of an accident, but this is due to human psychology and modification of behaviour and has nothing to do with inherent risk.

 

[Archibald]

Well, seeing that he was a total stranger and started laying into me right off the bat, I actually stuck my hand out and my first words were "Hi, my name is RDV, what's yours?", he totally ignored the gesture and just began rambling, I didn't take kindly to it and asked him what business is it of his to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do on the bike, eventually told him to go fly a kite, then he started screaming at me about his ideals about how cyclists should behave. That's when I told him I was going to send him to the hospital if he didn't ride away. I usually have a very long fuse, but this guy was insane, scary actually. I've had very cordial debates about this with others while riding, this on the other hand was crazy.

amazing how many fu<kwits there are out there who do this.
I watched some berk in a merc nearly wipe out a rider while making a turn - turning left he cut the corner as he overtook the rider also turning left (london streets). He then starts screaming at the rider that if he keeps riding like that he'll die - over and over again. It didn't matter how much either of us tried to point out the foolishness of the driver he just kept on screaming that if this guy continued to ride that way he'll die... pure madness...

it's morons like him that have me always puting the brain-bucket on - I always count for one more ibecile than I'd expect out there...

 

[Black Dog]

Somebody needs a stats refresher...A probability of .001 doesn't mean if the event hasn't happened in 999 attempts it's certain to happen on the 1000th attempt. Each time you flip a coin, the odds stay the same regardless of how many times you flip it. Flip heads once, 10 times or 10000 times in a row, flipping heads on the next throw still has a probability of 0.5.

Yes, I know very well that the probability for each event does not change, also, I know that each event is fully independent and there is no "memory" of past events. However, flipping a coin 1000 times does not make certain that you will get that 1 in 1000 event but it does become more probable that the 1 in 1000 event will occur at least once if you flip several thousand times, again, not a certainty.

Event memory is the fallacy that people who play slot machines have...they think that they are building luck and that the machine is due if they play it long enough without winning, and they wear diapers (nappies) so that they don't have to leave and let the next person will benefit from their work.

What I was trying to say is that the odds of crashing do not change, like you said very well, but the risk perception changes. Further, the more times you ride the more attempts at winning the jackpot you are making, even though the odds on each attempt are unchanged. It is true that for a .001 chance that 10000 attempts should produce roughly 10 wins. The more attempts that are made the closer to the win to lose ratio you get, even though there is a smaller and smaller chance that you will never get a win.

Sorry for the long response, you were correct to point out the missing information from my post.

 

[dsut4392]

Yes, I know very well that the probability for each event does not change, also, I know that each event is fully independent and there is no "memory" of past events.

OK so far...

However, flipping a coin 1000 times does not make certain that you will get that 1 in 1000 event but it does become more probable that the 1 in 1000 event will occur at least once if you flip several thousand times, again, not a certainty.

..but there you go again "it does become more probable"...the probability does not change, it is fixed at the outset. You would be correct to say that you are more likely to get a 1/1000 event to occur in 2000 attempts than in 1000 attempts, but it does not become more probable in the second lot of 1000 attempts.

What I was trying to say is that the odds of crashing do not change, like you said very well, but the risk perception changes. Further, the more times you ride the more attempts at winning the jackpot you are making, even though the odds on each attempt are unchanged. It is true that for a .001 chance that 10000 attempts should produce roughly 10 wins.

Yep, OK so far...

The more attempts that are made the closer to the win to lose ratio you get, even though there is a smaller and smaller chance that you will never get a win.

Bzzzt, the chance of getting a win still stays the same. The really dumb thing about slot machines (and gambling in general) is that the win:loss ratio is always skewed towards the "loss" side. So even if you 'guarantee' your win by playing an infinite number of times, you still LOSE.

Random probabilities are a tricky thing for us humans to understand, likely because true randomness is such an uncommon thing in human experience. Most things in life can be influenced by skill, experience and diligence, so true radomness goes against the grain.

Getting back to the crashing scenario, I think the vast majority of crashes have nothing to do with random probability (bad luck) but are due to inattention or lack of skill (riding to the conditions/to your level of ability).

Do I wear a helmet? Yes, every ride, for the whole ride - I very occasionally take it off to ride up hills in extreme heat, under controlled conditions (off open roads, riding slowly). I'm mostly a cautious rider, and have a couple of decades experience commuting in nasty traffic without injury, but that's not to say I haven't crashed/been crashed into. But when not commuting, whether on my roadie or MTB I like to have fun, occasionally push the speed envelope, and both experience and common sense tell me that if there's unexpected sand in the next hairpin and I hit it at 50km/h, there is a not insignificant probability of crashing.

I know a couple of people with head injuries from climbing falls that would have ben avoided by helmets; one died, the other survived but with major deficits - can't work, walks with a stick, speech difficulties. I also know a cyclist who had a serious brain injury despite wearing a helmet - she spent weeks in ICU, years later has impulsivity, concentration and sleeping problems and headaches, but is otherwise _very_ high functioning; chances are she would be dead had she been helmetless.

 

[Black Dog]

OK so far...

..but there you go again "it does become more probable"...the probability does not change, it is fixed at the outset. You would be correct to say that you are more likely to get a 1/1000 event to occur in 2000 attempts than in 1000 attempts, but it does not become more probable in the second lot of 1000 attempts.

For your first point that is exactly what I was trying to say. I seem to having issues with being articulate today. I know, I know that the event probability does not change, it is the likely hood of hitting the 1/1000 the more attempts you make that increases.

Bzzzt, the chance of getting a win still stays the same. The really dumb thing about slot machines (and gambling in general) is that the win:loss ratio is always skewed towards the "loss" side. So even if you 'guarantee' your win by playing an infinite number of times, you still LOSE.

Again I agree, the event odds stay the same but as you increase the number of attempts the likely hood of not 'winning' does get smaller as you approach infinity. The win to lose ration will ultimately be realized but large deviations from the ratio become less likely as the number of events gets larger.

 

[RedheadDane]

It's optional, but I still wear it
Well... I'd rather look stupid for a while because I'm wearing my helmet than end up being stupid because I didn't...

 

[elapid]

I'd rather look stupid for a while because I'm wearing my helmet than end up being stupid because I didn't...

Great quote. Love it.

 

[Hmmmmm]

I participate in a local Wednesday night ride that has multiple options in terms of mileage. This week, we took a road where I hit 48 mph on a particular hill - the wind was wreaking havoc and at the time I was glad I had my helmet on. I love the speed but at one point the wind hit me in a way that I thought for a brief second "oh man, if I f***in go down now......sh*t!" But, that was only a brief thought and then it was back to just blasting down the hill and enjoying the thrill.