Does Andy Schleck lack the mental ability to ever win the TDF?

[Damiano Machiavelli]

+1 to this comment on Andy's current form; he looked very liquid and easy whenever he punched it, and nobody else in the lead group looked nearly as comfortable. Please also remember that the LT mountain guys did their reconnaissance on the Alps stages, not the Pyrenees-- I truly believe that's where they will give their all.

If he was in good form then he could have launched an attack that lasted for more than ten seconds. He could have ridden at a level that would make him suffer as much as the others and gained time. Instead he ended the stage with a whopping two seconds that was gained from a surge before the line.

 

[Bennyl]

I don't know what it is, but Andy is highly annoying. Always looking around gesturing to his brother - is he trying to psych Alberto and the others out or what? I'm confused. Is it that he has to check in with Frank every 60 seconds as to how they're both feeling before their next 50 metre attack?

..."I'll attack now, if I haven't made any impression after 50 metres then I'll continue following wheels" ....

Frank mentioned that only him, Andy and Ivan attacked. if they call those 5 second accelarations attacks then they are kidding themselves. The only time I saw any pain on the riders faces was when Ivan attacked, Cadel bridged the gap and then attacked himself. If they were strong they could've bridged to Cadel and then put some real hurt on the group but no - they pulled him back and sat on his wheel. ok.

Maybe they think that them ordering Stuie & Fabian to increase the pace early is meant to soften the favourites so they can ride off into the sunset on a half hearted attack totaling 15 seconds of concerted effort.

Anyway, I didn't mind Andy when he was younger. Now, unless he can actually show some guts and take the race by the scruff of the neck and put in a meaningful attack to set himself apart, he should shut up. Don't do nothing and talk and complain. If you're waiting for a later stage, then shut your mouth and then attack on that stage and you will look like a real winner.

 

[indurain666]

He need to forget about making podium, go for yellow or nothing. Someone has to tell him that it won't get easier than this year for him to win this race.

It will also help if he could shut his pie hole once and for all (like Evans finally did) His fans most be getting quite annoyed of hearing excuse after excuse for everything (i.e., the wind, the hill, other racers, I did 600 W to try to drop Gilbert)

 

[Publicus]

Can I interject here? You are all crazy. Andy looked in absolute top form on this stage. I believe him when he said it just wasn't steep or hard enough to put any kind of wound into Evans, Contador, Basso, or Voeckler. When he came across that line at the top, he looked like he could've ridden another 20k up that grade (with ease). Everyone else in GC looked like they had been through the ringer. Andy simply couldn't drop anybody because they are all top class and the climb wasn't steep enough. Just you wait until the end of this week. He will win this tour... by minutes.

Call me crazy, but there is this saying take time on your rivals when you can. If he was so strong and fresh, why not simply ride away from the group? Are you suggesting that he's saving it for the final stages to build the drama? Out of benevolence? There is something wrong when you finish a MTF and look fresh/like you could race another 20KM--that says you didn't do enough to win.

And as for Andy's self-serving comments about the lack of steepness or hardness:

Plateau de Beille 15.8KM (7.9%)
Luz Ardinen 14.7KM (6.9%)
Col du Galibier 8.52KM (6.9%)
Alpe d'Huez 13.1KM (8.1%)

So he says the longest and second steepest MTF (which it says here is the hardest MTF) wasn't steep or hard enough. So I guess he has his excuse for all of the remaining MTFs already baked in. Perhaps he should have ridden the Giro--though I'm sure he would have explained to us that the reason he wasn't dominating was that the climbs were too steep and too hard.

Andy has a boatload of talent, but there is definitely something missing from his arsenal. And Frank's post-race comments suggest that he is unable to act on his own. The best thing he could do is lose this race and have to learn how to win a stage race--which he's never actually done as a pro.

 

[danjo007]

andy's problem lies with his biggest asset - his brother!
he relies too heavily on him.

 

[auscyclefan94]

And as for Andy's self-serving comments about the lack of steepness or hardness:

Plateau de Beille 15.8KM (7.9%)
Luz Ardinen 14.7KM (6.9%)
Col du Galibier 8.52KM (6.9%)
Alpe d'Huez 13.1KM (8.1%)

.

Just thought I would pick up on the grades and lengths of the climbs

Luz Ardiden 13.3km @7.4%
Plateau de beille 15.8km @7.9%
Col du Galibier (Briancon) 23km @5.1%
Alpe D'Huez 13.8km @7.9%

Didn't mean to be picky but just though that needed to be cleared up

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Col du Galibier is long, but not really hard/steep.
But the stage collectively is very tough.
It gets harder at the end tho, and I expect the last 6 or 7km to be where some riders crack.

Alpe D'Huez will be difficult for the diesels. The schlecks should do well here.

Difficult to say what affect the 3rd week will have on the GC men.

Colle Pra Martino could be interesting also..

 

[jobiwan]

I'm trying not to get my hopes too high, after being devastated today in the World Cup, but I really do think Andy can do it.

The Galibier stage is really tough, and the Schlecks have some real good experience on the Alpe. Looking forward to this week.

 

[BYOP88]

I'm trying not to get my hopes too high, after being devastated today in the World Cup, but I really do think Andy can do it.

The Galibier stage is really tough, and the Schlecks have some real good experience on the Alpe . Looking forward to this week.

What, letting Sastre ride off into the distance and pretending to be cool with it.

 

[jobiwan]

What, letting Sastre ride off into the distance and pretending to be cool with it.

Well , I was trying to hearken back to Frank's '06 ride, but yeah, that works too!

At least they can use '08 as "How NOT to win the Tour de France"

 

[Publicus]

Just thought I would pick up on the grades and lengths of the climbs

Luz Ardiden 13.3km @7.4%
Plateau de beille 15.8km @7.9%
Col du Galibier (Briancon) 23km @5.1%
Alpe D'Huez 13.8km @7.9%

Didn't mean to be picky but just though that needed to be cleared up

Pulled it from climbmybike.com since they had all of the climbs listed, so it's no sweat off my nose.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

I find it so rich that armchair pro cyclists here can race the TdF better than someone who has ridden something like 6 grand tours and is in contention for the podium of this years TdF!! How is it that you guys know better than Andy, how Andy should ride his bike??

 

[the asian]

I did say pre-TDF that AS is NOT in the class as AC. He reminds me of Ullrich, all skill and no discipline or mental toughness. He reminds me also of Agassi before he met (and was ready to listen) a coach that drilled discipline and mental toughness into him. Agassi was flicking the ball on the court and doing fun tricks but not winning majors.

major champions have not so much high skills as mental toughness and discipline. They can gfigure their way out of tough situations. jordan, Woods, Agassi, Armstrong (and I am no LA fan), AC, Federer etc. With current attitude, AS may win one accidental championship like ullrich or none at all.

AC has a tough situation now, Giro, crashes, etc, but he can figure a way out. AS? He still can't figure out a way to win. And with no practice during the season on how to win, it's tough.

Agree with you. Andy might win one, lbut will never dominate cycling. He is in the category of sportsman who have all the skill and talent, but not the winning attitude. He is in the same bracket as Lebron James. Lot of talk but no deeds.

 

[Big Doopie]

Difficult to say what affect the 3rd week will have on the GC men.
[/IMG]

yes, who will risk most on the rest day?

 

[JA.Tri]

Call me crazy, but there is this saying take time on your rivals when you can. If he was so strong and fresh, why not simply ride away from the group? Are you suggesting that he's saving it for the final stages to build the drama? Out of benevolence? There is something wrong when you finish a MTF and look fresh/like you could race another 20KM--that says you didn't do enough to win...

...Andy's self-serving comments about the lack of steepness or hardness...

So he says the longest and second steepest MTF (which it says here is the hardest MTF) wasn't steep or hard enough. So I guess he has his excuse for all of the remaining MTFs already baked in. Perhaps he should have ridden the Giro--though I'm sure he would have explained to us that the reason he wasn't dominating was that the climbs were too steep and too hard.

Andy has a boatload of talent, but there is definitely something missing from his arsenal. And Frank's post-race comments suggest that he is unable to act on his own. The best thing he could do is lose this race and have to learn how to win a stage race--which he's never actually done as a pro.

Great post!

Some interesting thoughts in this thread.

Andy doesn't seem unintelligent...but there are significant questions re: his (and Frank, LT et al) strategic planning and execution! And bad mouthing your opponents on their attacking (strategic planning/execution) that's ironic! If it wasn't steep enough for Andy to do other than he did...why on Earth would his opponents do otherwise!

As per previous posters:

. keep your mouth shut and your powder dry
. likely the "others" are conserving energy for the "heavy" stages to come
. I agree that Andy (and to lesser extent Frank and LT) are under incredible pressure to succeed... and this burden may be intolerable...with Andy et al unable to cope
. with the TdF tail end heavy; attacking for the most part will be reserved for the last few selections/when feeling absolutely 100%...for fear of cracking/bad day.

ps while watching Andy I thought...Andy why don't you attack for 100m or so, then hard tempo for a while???

 

[simo1733]

I find it so rich that armchair pro cyclists here can race the TdF better than someone who has ridden something like 6 grand tours and is in contention for the podium of this years TdF!! How is it that you guys know better than Andy, how Andy should ride his bike??

Good question bra.I don't know why Andy rides like that.Maybe he don't follow the forum.Maybe he is too busy looking out for Frank instead of sticking it to Contador.Anyhow he won't get many better chances to Beat Alberto.
In order to win,first you have to be prepared to lose.At the moment he seems to be happy to try to win based purely on Contador's crash.Bravo NOT!

 

[karlboss]

Due to their antics it could be a podium of Evans, Sanchez (Sammy), and Voekler (in some order) and no Schlecks, which would be the best lesson to have in that book.

The stuff of dreams

 

[Cimber]

I find it so rich that armchair pro cyclists here can race the TdF better than someone who has ridden something like 6 grand tours and is in contention for the podium of this years TdF!! How is it that you guys know better than Andy, how Andy should ride his bike??

Its not just us, its the majority of cyclingling experts (including former riders) as well.

 

[Jeanne]

I find it so rich that armchair pro cyclists here can race the TdF better than someone who has ridden something like 6 grand tours and is in contention for the podium of this years TdF!! How is it that you guys know better than Andy, how Andy should ride his bike??

For me that is just part of the forum-fun: Discuss what they shoulda woulda coulda do better, with all the knwoledge and experience I do have or not concerning riding a bike

 

[Spaniard]

This is so funny, I couldn't see the tour during this days due to holidays, I feared that Contador was crushed , and it seems that nobody can't outclimb ( but Samu ) a 80% Contador, I would like to see this Tour with the Contador's Giro form at least the Schlecks bros would learn what's the meaning of real attack.

 

[B_Ugli]

Leopard Trek = Tactically incompetent

 

[Christian]

Right now I think he lacks the mental capability to win the Tour. In almost all of his interviews he seems nervous, pressured, tense, uncomfortable and even unhappy. He has lost all of his youthful lightness of heart which was characteristic of him in the early years of his career. I remember him in the Giro 2007: totally relaxed, laughing, joking ... same in the Tours 2008 and 2009.

I think the difference then was that no one really expected him to win. Therefore, he could only do well and positively surprise people. But in 2010 he saw that he could actually win and since then he seems obsessed in an unhealthy way (I suppose you have to be obsessed to win in the first place). Maybe the chaingate incident also hit him harder than he admitted in the press, a velonation feature from January suggested he might have been depressed, which then might have played a part in the Vuelta fiasco.

I am also unsure as to whether the creation of LEOPARD TREK was the right decision in terms of pressure. Instead of only being the leader of a team he now practically is the creator of a "national" team. His brother Fränk doesn't seem to have been affected by the move though, but he has been much more relaxed and laid back for a while now. It's funny because it used to be the other way around: Fränk used to be much more nervous and uncomfortable on the bike than Andy. I think the many years of experience, as well as his wife and daughter, have calmed him down a lot and he now looks much more confident in his riding (Tour de Suisse, Critérium). He even cracks jokes in interviews such as "I started the sprint in seventh position and I finished in seventh" (on Mûr de Bretagne) or "I told myself: ça passe ou ça casse" (Either you make it or you break it).

It seems that both Evans and Basso have a rather large advantage on Andy as far as psychological strength goes. Both have a huge experience and have nothing left to prove: Basso won multiple Giros and came back from a doping ban, Evans won WC and a whole bunch of other races and is on a weak team. They both approach the end of their career - they can't really let anyone down, they can only do well and positively surprise people. As to Contador, he certainly must have the confidence of having won every GT he ever entered, as well as a natural ability to overcome adversity, even within his own team.

However the OP asked whether Andy could "ever" win the Tour, and to that I say yes. Psychological strength and maturity are acquired through the years and I am confident that Andy might develop in the same way as Fränk and calm down at some point. If he will be able to do that, he will be much stronger than he is today.

 

[Angliru]

Always seems to me that AS and FS ride within their limits.

Never do they look like they are giving absolutely 100% to drop others.

Will AS go through his whole career and wonder at the end if he could have won a Tour?

AS seems to lack the mental ability whether you call it greed/savy/hunger/kudos to win a Tour.

What was the point of him attacking in the last 400m today? Why did he not attack with 2/3/4 k left today!?!?

I seriously think there is something mentally missing with AS

After Luz Ardiden, a blow has to have been made to their confidence, with their inability to drop:

1. Tommie Voeckler, a non-elite climber
2. Rui Costa, not exactly someone they anticipated seeing staring them in the face as they crossed the line atop Luz Ardiden
3. Pierre Rolland or any Frenchman for that matter (no offence intended to French riders)

 

[LaFlorecita]

After Luz Ardiden, a blow has to have been made to their confidence, with their inability to drop:

1. Tommie Voeckler, a non-elite climber
2. Rui Costa, not exactly someone they anticipated seeing staring them in the face as they crossed the line atop Luz Ardiden
3. Pierre Rolland or any Frenchman for that matter (no offence intended to French riders)

Fränk was able to drop them though.

 

[sashimono]

Kim Andersen said they were more tired than they looked...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...efends-teams-tactics-at-tour-de-france_184672