• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Doping and testicular cancer

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Just to add to the complexity of trying to gather a link.

Testicular cancer isn't just one type of cancer. There are dozens of sub-types.

It is entirely possible that if PED use affects say germ cell types it wouldn't necessarily affect sex-cord types.

It takes a population of hundreds of thousands or millions to even begin to see and effects, in all but the most obvious cases.
 
Aug 31, 2012
7,550
3
0
Visit site
2008885 said:
Susan, can you lock this before someone says something really offensive about a man with cancer?

The person being talked about getting cancer doesn't, and shouldn't, deter anyone from voicing thoughts, positive or negative, on a forum.
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

SeriousSam said:
Some substances may well increase the chance of getting cancer. Because we don't observe who takes what and how often, we can't really say much, we can't even establish an association, never mind causation.
If it was Armstrong and some random guy, I would have reacted differently. We have valid reasons to think both Armstrong and Basso have been heavy users of doping; that's why I was particularly puzzled.

IF - and I hope it will not happen - some other top GC rider of the 90s/00s has similar problems, then it would become worrisome.
 
Jul 6, 2015
50
0
0
Visit site
2008885 said:
mikez said:
Well, Armstrong did send out a tweet of "support". Coincidence?

Susan, can you lock this before someone says something really offensive about a man with cancer?

Are you new to the clinic? My post is a parody of the typical conspiracy theories that pervade here, especially if it can be even slightly or remotely, tied to anything Lance Armstrong.

Personally I hope the very best for Basso and would never post anything like that on the regular forums, but the fact that it even came up - predictable as it is - in the clinic says something and IMO is worthy only of parody.
 
Aug 31, 2012
7,550
3
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

franic said:
SeriousSam said:
Some substances may well increase the chance of getting cancer. Because we don't observe who takes what and how often, we can't really say much, we can't even establish an association, never mind causation.
If it was Armstrong and some random guy, I would have reacted differently. We have valid reasons to think both Armstrong and Basso have been heavy users of doping; that's why I was particularly puzzled.

IF - and I hope it will not happen - some other top GC rider of the 90s/00s has similar problems, then it would become worrisome.
Not really. That's just not sufficiently unlikely under the hypothesis that neither cycling nor PED use have any relation to he chance to get cancer. If it were to happen, we'd not have good evidence against that hypothesis.

That said, steroids do seem to make it more likely to get cancer based on that nature article.
 
Aug 6, 2011
738
0
0
Visit site
I'm sorry, but with the data at hand, there is simply no reason to assume any relationship between PEDs and testicular cancer; we don't even have to invoke Taleb's Fooled by Randomness. The incidence rate of testicular cancer is quite high, as mentioned before, so there is nothing really special about this case, except, maybe, the lucky early discovery of the tumour.
 
I know it was a long time ago but let's not forget that Basso lost his mother to cancer back in 2004. There may be a family history of cancer there.

Ironically Armstrong assisted his family with finding a reputable oncologist on short notice as Basso's mother was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer during the Tour. He nearly dropped out of the Tour despite being a genuine contender it came as such a shock.
 
arthurvandelay said:
For what it is worth I discussed this very topic many times over the years with my urologic colleagues (I am an anesthetist). They thought that Wonderboys known and alleged long term use of anabolic and catabolic steroids certainly was not the smartest thing to do, either in terms of malignancy risk or with respect to other health problems in the future. But they always were cautious to say that there is simply no way to know if such drug use was a direct cause of his malignancy.

As other posters have mentioned we probably will have to wait some time to see if there is going to be a big spike in this malignancy that could be attributed to PED abuse. :rolleyes:

Well there have been a lot of footballers with this cancer, see BBC today:

Several footballers have recovered from testicular cancer, including former Newcastle midfielder Jonas Gutierrez, former Bolton and Celtic defender Alan Stubbs, ex-Arsenal and West Ham striker John Hartson, former Millwall striker Neil Harris, ex-Northampton goalkeeper Matt Duke and ex-Tottenham and Chelsea defender Jason Cundy
Not that anyone suspects footballers ever to take PED's :rolleyes:
 
Mar 13, 2015
949
0
0
Visit site
coinneach said:
arthurvandelay said:
For what it is worth I discussed this very topic many times over the years with my urologic colleagues (I am an anesthetist). They thought that Wonderboys known and alleged long term use of anabolic and catabolic steroids certainly was not the smartest thing to do, either in terms of malignancy risk or with respect to other health problems in the future. But they always were cautious to say that there is simply no way to know if such drug use was a direct cause of his malignancy.

As other posters have mentioned we probably will have to wait some time to see if there is going to be a big spike in this malignancy that could be attributed to PED abuse. :rolleyes:

Well there have been a lot of footballers with this cancer, see BBC today:

Several footballers have recovered from testicular cancer, including former Newcastle midfielder Jonas Gutierrez, former Bolton and Celtic defender Alan Stubbs, ex-Arsenal and West Ham striker John Hartson, former Millwall striker Neil Harris, ex-Northampton goalkeeper Matt Duke and ex-Tottenham and Chelsea defender Jason Cundy
Not that anyone suspects footballers ever to take PED's :rolleyes:
In fairness I don't think that is a lot, considering the amount of footballers.
 
May 22, 2011
146
0
0
Visit site
mikez said:
arthurvandelay said:
For what it is worth I discussed this very topic many times over the years with my urologic colleagues (I am an anesthetist). They thought that Wonderboys known and alleged long term use of anabolic and catabolic steroids certainly was not the smartest thing to do, either in terms of malignancy risk or with respect to other health problems in the future. But they always were cautious to say that there is simply no way to know if such drug use was a direct cause of his malignancy.

As other posters have mentioned we probably will have to wait some time to see if there is going to be a big spike in this malignancy that could be attributed to PED abuse. :rolleyes:

Well, Armstrong did send out a tweet of "support". Coincidence?

I don't think it had anything to do with doping per se. Bassos mother passed away from cancer, and HWMNBM was involved in helping Bassos mother get some advice from Lances colleagues in the cancer community.
 
Re:

observer said:
would having cancer like this at what i assume is an early stage, affect his performance in the tour thus far?
he seemed a bit off in the TTT

Before my wife was diagnosed (Obviously different cancer), yes even she was 'off' for quite a while beforehand.

And that's not having to perform at the level of an elite athlete.
Its a fair bet that it has affected him slightly for most of the year.

Gents check yourselves periodically.
Ladies make sure it happens (or heck check your gents for him...)
 
Re:

IndianCyclist said:
The number is 3. You are forgetting Irizar.
But it looks pretty unlikely as it should be similar across all sports especially the weightlifters/bodybuilders w.r.t hcg or testosterone. Most likely to do with position of cyclists as other posters have already pointed out.
I have a recollection that this has been discussed previously, some time back - might have been in an LA thread too... The discussion stemmed from the question as to whether PED's were a possible factor in LA contracting this type of cancer.
I recall mention that there were other cases prior to LA and some others since.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Re: Re:

Archibald said:
IndianCyclist said:
The number is 3. You are forgetting Irizar.
But it looks pretty unlikely as it should be similar across all sports especially the weightlifters/bodybuilders w.r.t hcg or testosterone. Most likely to do with position of cyclists as other posters have already pointed out.
I have a recollection that this has been discussed previously, some time back - might have been in an LA thread too... The discussion stemmed from the question as to whether PED's were a possible factor in LA contracting this type of cancer.
I recall mention that there were other cases prior to LA and some others since.

Rumour was Ferrari was concerned that his medical interventions played a part in Lance's cancer.
 
Feb 22, 2011
462
0
0
Visit site
I'm having a hard time believing this thread is even still open for comment.

I wish Ivan Basso well in his complete diagnosis & treatment and hope for a quick and speedy recovery, for his sake as well as his wife and children.
 
Re: Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
Archibald said:
IndianCyclist said:
The number is 3. You are forgetting Irizar.
But it looks pretty unlikely as it should be similar across all sports especially the weightlifters/bodybuilders w.r.t hcg or testosterone. Most likely to do with position of cyclists as other posters have already pointed out.
I have a recollection that this has been discussed previously, some time back - might have been in an LA thread too... The discussion stemmed from the question as to whether PED's were a possible factor in LA contracting this type of cancer.
I recall mention that there were other cases prior to LA and some others since.

Rumour was Ferrari was concerned that his medical interventions played a part in Lance's cancer.

I definitely remember reading that somewhere too.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,854
1
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
Catwhoorg said:
I wasn't aware of that.

Do you happen to know what sort cancer his mother passed from ?
IIRC it was breast cancer. It was aggressive and she only lasted a few months.

dont think he pulled out of the Tour.

It was about 2003ish, the CSC documentary, Overcoming, shows Riis pissed off with Basso being cuckolded by Lance, as D-Queued on here has noted multiple times.
 
Apr 6, 2013
10
0
0
Visit site
Re:

More Strides than Rides said:
Things are complicated. Cancer is complicated. Cancer rates are complicated. The interaction between the two will never be simple.

Interesting you bring that up. When one takes three or more drugs, it is impossible to predict how they will all interact, as it can vary quite a bit depending on numerous physiologic/chemical/neural factors of the user. Lance, Basso, and their GC contemporaries were on three or more drugs at a time, no?
 
Re: Re:

blackcat said:
42x16ss said:
Catwhoorg said:
I wasn't aware of that.

Do you happen to know what sort cancer his mother passed from ?
IIRC it was breast cancer. It was aggressive and she only lasted a few months.

dont think he pulled out of the Tour.

It was about 2003ish, the CSC documentary, Overcoming, shows Riis pissed off with Basso being cuckolded by Lance, as D-Queued on here has noted multiple times.
Basso didn't pull out, but he considered it. Then Lance made contact, helped find a doctor for his mother and it looked like Basso made a deal with the devil, saying "Lance said he'd win the Tour this weekend and if I can stay with him I'll make the podium."

On the first two MTF's Lance and Basso made huge time on everyone, Armstrong didn't sprint the first stage, Basso didn't sprint the second. Riis was annoyed that Basso was doing a deal with Armstrong as he was still a chance to win outright.

The year was '04
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re:

skippythepinhead said:
I'm having a hard time believing this thread is even still open for comment.

I wish Ivan Basso well in his complete diagnosis & treatment and hope for a quick and speedy recovery, for his sake as well as his wife and children.
Why? Everybody is anxious about Basso and hopes he will be better soon. Nonetheless it seems a legit question to ask whether PED had a role in cancer.

Or should we all stop talking about anything doping related?
 

TRENDING THREADS