Doping in other sports?

[Catwhoorg]

Following on from last weeks 2 year ban of a Rugby player, there is an 8 year ban for trafficking for a Welsh Rugby union player.

Interesting case, he admits selling prohibited substances, but thought he was outside the remit of the WRU, but hadn't formally deregistered.

Worth a read, both for the insight into the murky world of internet dealings in underground substances, and how a NADO can build a case.

 

[ernern]

Well the problem is, that it's not possible to have 190 µg/ml pseudoephedrine in your blood, if you only take one tablet.

Pseudoephedrine in one tablet: 120 mg = 120 000 µg

Blood volume in a human is approx. 5 litres = 5000 ml

So the max. pseudoephedrine concentration in blood from one tablet would be:
120 000µg / 5000 ml = 24 µg/ml
.

They threshold is for concentration in the urine, not the blood.

WADA recommend that athletes do not take allergy medicines containing pseudoephedrine for 24 hours before competitions, because it is in fact possible to get levels above the threshold, by taking only one tablet.[1]

There are no evidence that the Swedish player is not telling the truth.

According to Swedish newspaper aftonbladet[5], there was an "agreement" among the doctors for the hockey teams during the olympics that taking one of these pills each day was allowed, e.e it seems like the hockey teams collectively ignored the warning from Wada, that this could in fact lead to a positive doping test. To me it seems like the persons to be blamed in this case is the medical experts associated with the teams, and not the player.


"After Clarinase intake, pseudoefedrin could already be detected one hour after intake (Figure 1). Tmax varied between 4 h and 24 h. Maximum concentrations ranged between 65 and 233 μg/mL."[4]

"Nonetheless, we also observed a high intraindividual variability of the urinary concentration of both pseudoephedrine and cathine found after the administration to the same subject (subject 6: male, age 25 years, weight 95 kg): in the case of the administration of 60 and 180 mg of pseudoephedrine, the subject did not exceed the cutoff values for both substances. When 2 doses of 120 mg were taken with a time interval of 11 hours (a typical therapeutic approach in the case of rhinitis), the cutoff value for cathine was exceeded immediately after the second administration, with concentrations reaching 12.6 and 456 microgram/mL for pseudoephedrine. Then, the subject took 120 mg of pseudoephedrine every fifth day, and in all cases, the cutoff for cathine and the value of 100 microgram/mL for pseudoephedrine were exceeded in at least 1 urine sample for each administration, with concentrations reaching the maximum values of 14.8 microgram/mL (cathine) and 275 microgram/mL (pseudoephedrine)."[2]

[1]http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/W...A_Additional_Info_Pseudoephedrine_2010_EN.pdf

[2]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571776

[3]http://www.expressen.se/sport/os/lakare-star-klart-att-han-kan-tala-sanning/

[4]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=A79D4760451CF27C7C947E8D8365BE0E.f02t04

[5]http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2014/article18427525.ab

 

[roundabout]

Campbell-Brown cleared by CAS according to her lawyer

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Campbell-Brown cleared by CAS according to her lawyer

That's a complete joke.

 

[martinvickers]

That's a complete joke.

Silent reduced ban.

 

[gooner]

Rugby player gets an 8 year ban by UKAD.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ent-list-of-banned-hooker-Dean-Colclough.html

 

[D-Queued]

...

In order to get to that 190 µg/ml value, Bäckström would have had to take at least 8 tablets. ....

... which gives a dose of about 950mg of Pseudo - which is actually very close to the 8 tablets you suggested (7.9).

....

Summary: I call BS on the 1 zyrtec story too.

This dosage would be consistent with the definitive study showing positive ergogenic effects of Caffeine & Ephedra: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10223267

For those motivated to test at home, note, however, that this is the only (?) study that has demonstrated such benefits even though the ECA stack is/was commonly utilized by bodybuilders.

Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine are not 1:1 analogues. In other words, you need to take a lot more pseudoephedrine to obtain the ephedrine result.

Hypothesis:

If one believed the results of this singular study - which is oddly from the land of hockey

AND

If one were interested in "prolong(ing) exercise time to exhaustion" while "wearing "fighting order (gear)" which weighed about 11 kg (i.e. just like hockey equipment)"

WHERE

Said time to exhaustion would correlate well with ice time during a hockey game

AND

If one opted for pseudoephedrine rather than ephedrine to provide a build in excuse should one have a positive doping test

THEN

One would be strongly motivated to consume about 8 tablets worth of pseudephedrine.

Just saying...

Dave.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

Rugby player gets an 8 year ban by UKAD.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ent-list-of-banned-hooker-Dean-Colclough.html

Former player, strictly, if the article is true that he was registered as a player but not actually playing. NB that he never played at the top level but was semi-pro at best.

Had he not been under player registration they would have had no jurisdiction.

Interesting that the young Scottish player banned a while back appears to have been the one who identified Colclough - although since supplying roids is his business, he wasn't exactly hiding it.

 

[mikeoneill]

https://twitter.com/MattCentrowitz
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5669127


letsrun gone nuts again


may be something in it when they've left the thread up

 

[mikeoneill]

from letsrun
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5674780

mo farah gets a mention in the dociment

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Dr Paul Wright sacked by Jadco after saying that the recent failed drug tests might be the "tip of the iceberg".

http://m.jamaicaobserver.com/mobile/news/FIRED-_16172629

I hope this ****es him off and makes him speak out.

Not sure who fired him with the likes of former team doctor at Beijing/head of anti doping, Herb Elliot gone.

 

[hiero2]

From a quick read i think the article misunderstands what homeopathy is.
Testosterone, or any substance, can be homeopathic. 30X on the label just means the testosterone is supposed to be diluted to a ratio of 10^-30.
Obviously if Gay tested positive from such a solution it wasn't actually homeopathic.

Homeopathic testosterone is an interesting moral question though, is it ok to use something that statistically will have no molecules of testosterone in it, on the basis that it will improve your performance like normal T would.....

There also seems to be some (intentional?) confusion in the marketplace around homeopathic solutions these days. It is being used for very mild solutions - like a 1% or 5% solutions - rather than than the space dust remnant of prescence of a homeopathic dilution. Example is the zinc solution I use to prevent colds. It is VERY mild, as you don't need much zinc, but I wouldn't think to normally call it homeopathic, since it works by completely different means. But the mfrs are calling it homeopathic, so as to cash in on that PR angle.

Personally, I find this quite irritating, since afaic, homeopathy belongs firmly in the snake oil camp, and practitioners should be treated with the same regard - or lack thereof. E.g. run 'em out of town on a rail.

 

[hiero2]

This dosage would be consistent with the definitive study showing positive ergogenic effects of Caffeine & Ephedra: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10223267

For those motivated to test at home, note, however, that this is the only (?) study that has demonstrated such benefits even though the ECA stack is/was commonly utilized by bodybuilders.

Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine are not 1:1 analogues. In other words, you need to take a lot more pseudoephedrine to obtain the ephedrine result.

Hypothesis:

If one believed the results of this singular study - which is oddly from the land of hockey

AND

If one were interested in "prolong(ing) exercise time to exhaustion" while "wearing "fighting order (gear)" which weighed about 11 kg (i.e. just like hockey equipment)"

WHERE

Said time to exhaustion would correlate well with ice time during a hockey game

AND

If one opted for pseudoephedrine rather than ephedrine to provide a build in excuse should one have a positive doping test

THEN

One would be strongly motivated to consume about 8 tablets worth of pseudephedrine.

Just saying...

Dave.

The ephedra result was also experientially validated (which is a plural of anecdotal) by millions of weight loss fans and athletes from many assorted disclipines.

Quite correct that ephedrine and psuedoephedrine are not 1:1 - together they make up the alkaloids that are primarily responsible for the effectiveness of ephedra. They are both present in the parent: ephedra (sinica).

 

[alternator]

An interesting Aftonbladet article that talks about NHL and NHLPA pressuring the Swedish Federation after the Bäckström case
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2014/article18488652.ab

Didn't find an English article yet, unfortunately, but I think the gist of it is the reaction of the Swedish Federation (blame the IOC and doctor) was demanded by the NHL lawyers who threatened withdrawing NHL player participation as well as having the added leverage of having made an agreement to pay Swedish teams $250k for each Swedish player that gets to the NHL.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Pro hockey players have been getting bigger, and bigger through the years, even though the population as a whole has stayed the same size. The most important stat that the teams use to recruit, is height. It's the first thing that they look at when deciding whether to draft a junior player, or not. Not goals scored, assists, +/-, nor any other performance based stat.

Your suggestion is ludicrous if not downright absurd. Height is a factor but one of the lowest factors in recruiting junior hockey players.

As one who played Junior hockey, I know all the other skills come first, skating, speed, puck handling, passing, willingness to go into the corners, smarts, quickness of shot, heaviness of shot, goals, assists, strength and attitude. Then maybe height.

Sidney Crosby the best hockey player in the world is 5 ft. 11 inches. Marty St. Louis who won the NHL scoring title in 2012 -2013 and the Art Ross trophy is 5 ft. 8inches. Drew Doughty the best defenceman in the world is 6 ft. even. Give your head a shake.

 

[the delgados]

Your suggestion is ludicrous if not downright absurd. Height is a factor but one of the lowest factors in recruiting junior hockey players.

As one who played Junior hockey, I know all the other skills come first, skating, speed, puck handling, passing, willingness to go into the corners, smarts, quickness of shot, heaviness of shot, goals, assists, strength and attitude. Then maybe height.

Sidney Crosby the best hockey player in the world is 5 ft. 11 inches. Marty St. Louis who won the NHL scoring title in 2012 -2013 and the Art Ross trophy is 5 ft. 8inches. Drew Doughty the best defenceman in the world is 6 ft. even. Give your head a shake.

I'm late to this thread and apologize if I'm being repetitive.
I played junior hockey as well, and I can pretty much assure you that hockey players are juiced.
Height has nothing to do with it.

 

[D-Queued]

Your suggestion is ludicrous if not downright absurd. Height is a factor but one of the lowest factors in recruiting junior hockey players.

As one who played Junior hockey, I know all the other skills come first, skating, speed, puck handling, passing, willingness to go into the corners, smarts, quickness of shot, heaviness of shot, goals, assists, strength and attitude. Then maybe height.

Sidney Crosby the best hockey player in the world is 5 ft. 11 inches. Marty St. Louis who won the NHL scoring title in 2012 -2013 and the Art Ross trophy is 5 ft. 8inches. Drew Doughty the best defenceman in the world is 6 ft. even. Give your head a shake.

St Louis is 'unusual'.

You played Junior Hockey, when, in the 60s?

Besides, other factors than height are going to be more important in Junior because it is Junior.

Yes, there is still talent in the game, fortunately.

If you are going to go by NHL awards, however, then please go and explain away Chara's height.

This took about two nanoseconds of searching:

"Bigger Hockey Players Causing More Concussions"

NHL goalies are getting bigger and bigger

While 'getting big' isn't quite the same in hockey as it is in baseball, it is definitely a part of the NHL. All that weight training in the summer sure would be helped by a little Testosterone.

Dave.

 

[sugarman]

There also seems to be some (intentional?) confusion in the marketplace around homeopathic solutions these days. It is being used for very mild solutions - like a 1% or 5% solutions - rather than than the space dust remnant of prescence of a homeopathic dilution. Example is the zinc solution I use to prevent colds. It is VERY mild, as you don't need much zinc, but I wouldn't think to normally call it homeopathic, since it works by completely different means. But the mfrs are calling it homeopathic, so as to cash in on that PR angle.

Personally, I find this quite irritating, since afaic, homeopathy belongs firmly in the snake oil camp, and practitioners should be treated with the same regard - or lack thereof. E.g. run 'em out of town on a rail.

Yep definitely intentional confusion, lots of people consider homeopathic to be something of a healthier or more natural version of the real deal, which pharma co's are happy to try and cash in on.

Obviously this is wrong though, although putting homeopathy in the same camp as snake oil is a bit unfair on snake oil...

 

[blackcat]

While 'getting big' isn't quite the same in hockey as it is in baseball, it is definitely a part of the NHL. All that weight training in the summer sure would be helped by a little Testosterone.

Dave.

former Chicago Bears (80's) offensive linesman William "the Refrigerator" Perry was the first offensive linesman to tip the scales at 300lb.

Now, coming from outside N America, dont most Offensive lines have their entire starting team on 300lbs? And even some Defensive linesman tip 300lbs?

on cycling parlance = Not Normal.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I'm late to this thread and apologize if I'm being repetitive.
I played junior hockey as well, and I can pretty much assure you that hockey players are juiced.
Height has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, but mostly juiced on steroids as opposed to EPO, blood transfusions, HGH and cortisone. Probably some testosterone too! And I agree height has nothing to do with it.

 

[Jamie1012]

There's a passage in Seven Deadly Sins in which Walsh recounts an anecdote about a journalist friend of his who pursued a well-known American athlete over doping and was finally told to stop after a sit-down with the athlete and his lawyers. The journalist, gagged by his own paper, swallowed his pride and agreed to stop. As the athlete was turning to leave, he shook the journalist's hand, and pressed something into it, and smiled (a famous smile, apparently). When the journalist looked down there as a dianabol tablet in his hand. Walsh doesn't name the athlete (or the journalist), but does mention that his friend had been having articles published about the athlete at the time. Anyone know who he's talking about?

 

[blackcat]

There's a passage in Seven Deadly Sins in which Walsh recounts an anecdote about a journalist friend of his who pursued a well-known American athlete over doping and was finally told to stop after a sit-down with the athlete and his lawyers. The journalist, gagged by his own paper, swallowed his pride and agreed to stop. As the athlete was turning to leave, he shook the journalist's hand, and pressed something into it, and smiled (a famous smile, apparently). When the journalist looked down there as a dianabol tablet in his hand. Walsh doesn't name the athlete (or the journalist), but does mention that his friend had been having articles published about the athlete at the time. Anyone know who he's talking about?

Mark MCguire?

 

[BradCantona]

I pictured Carl Lewis from the description

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

former Chicago Bears (80's) offensive linesman William "the Refrigerator" Perry was the first offensive linesman to tip the scales at 300lb.

Now, coming from outside N America, dont most Offensive lines have their entire starting team on 300lbs? And even some Defensive linesman tip 300lbs?

on cycling parlance = Not Normal.

I disagree. It is normal, it's just a new one.

This is largely attributable to the effect of nutrition science on prenatal care. People are just bigger now as a consequence of having growth potential optimised while in the womb. The Netherlands was one of the first countries on earth to have national dietary supplementation for pregnant women. An unexpected consequence, today they are the tallest country on earth, their men on average 5cm/2" taller than American men.

USA didn't pass its national law supplementing the diet of pregnant low-income mothers until 1972. This socioeconomic group tends to have children younger than others so it stands to reason that the second generation beneficiaries of this policy now would be in their early 20s, possibly even mid-20s.

Just a few years ago, The University of Kentucky's (American) football team had a 320-lb quarterback. The NBA is awash with 6'10" guards. Americans on the whole are just a lot bigger than when the Fridge was making headlines.

 

[blackcat]

I disagree. It is normal, it's just a new one.

This is largely attributable to the effect of nutrition science on prenatal care. People are just bigger now as a consequence of having growth potential optimised while in the womb. The Netherlands was one of the first countries on earth to have national dietary supplementation for pregnant women. An unexpected consequence, today they are the tallest country on earth, their men on average 5cm/2" taller than American men.

USA didn't pass its national law supplementing the diet of pregnant low-income mothers until 1972. This socioeconomic group tends to have children younger than others so it stands to reason that the second generation beneficiaries of this policy now would be in their early 20s, possibly even mid-20s.

Just a few years ago, The University of Kentucky's (American) football team had a 320-lb quarterback. The NBA is awash with 6'10" guards. Americans on the whole are just a lot bigger than when the Fridge was making headlines.

lol

bore$hit