Doping in other sports?

[blackcat]

Not that they have any previous in doping

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/summer/2007-03-30-thorpe_N.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/swimming/3002998/Swimming-Coach-charged-with-possession-of-steroids.html

technically, he was Russian. So that is Oleg Tinkov and Vladimir Putin's fault, and not Australias yay

 

[Clausfarre]

From 1997, some people had wised up already by then it seems.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1009868/index.htm

Thanks. That was a great article, a true evergreen.... It serves to understand the mentality of anyone dedicating their lives to winning which obviously clashes so very hard with the public's expectations of purity and fairness.

 

[The Hitch]

Thanks. That was a great article, a true evergreen.... It serves to understand the mentality of anyone dedicating their lives to winning which obviously clashes so very hard with the public's expectations of purity and fairness.

Well put Clausfarre.

The first few sentences of the article should be engraved on the front door of any anti doping agency

A scenario, from a 1995 poll of 198 sprinters, swimmers, powerlifters and other assorted athletes, most of them U.S. Olympians or aspiring Olympians: You are offered a banned performance-enhancing substance, with two guarantees: 1) You will not be caught. 2) You will win. Would you take the substance?

One hundred and ninety-five athletes said yes; three said no.

Anti doping still operates under this myth that athletes are inherently good and only a few bad eggs would dope.

It shockingly underestimates the power of the will to win - hillariously used as an argument for cleanliness

Tim Montgomery said he wanted the world record so badly, he didn't care if he died the second he stepped of the track.

Of course there are honest athletes in sport, and of course anti doping can improve things, but some idea of the realities of doping is neccesary before that can happen and with most sports they still think doping is something only some sociopath would try.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I am sure if they took the poll in 2006 or later, the numbers would be flipped, with only 3 / 198 saying yes and 195 saying no, they would not dope.


Or something.


...

 

[The Hitch]

I am sure if they took the poll in 2006 or later, the numbers would be flipped, with only 3 / 198 saying yes and 195 saying no, they would not dope.


Or something.


...

There have been similar polls in recent years with similar results.

One I remember asked the 2nd question from the article - would you take a magic pill that gave you all the wins you want but die in 5 years. 50% said yes.

Another one asked if they would take a pill or something and 90% said yes.

Though difference was the concept of the drug being banned (and therefore cheating) wasn't mentioned.

I've linked to them before, definitely in olympic threads if not others, but with 25 000 posts, its looking for a needle in a haystack. I also seen one or two others post them.

It was while doing vague google searches for the more recent polls that I stumbled across the 1997 article

 

[Clausfarre]

There have been similar polls in recent years with similar results.

One I remember asked the 2nd question from the article - would you take a magic pill that gave you all the wins you want but die in 5 years. 50% said yes.

Another one asked if they would take a pill or something and 90% said yes.

Though difference was the concept of the drug being banned (and therefore cheating) wasn't mentioned.

I've linked to them before, definitely in olympic threads if not others, but with 25 000 posts, its looking for a needle in a haystack. I also seen one or two others post them.

It was while doing vague google searches for the more recent polls that I stumbled across the 1997 article

There should be a thread collecting these articles relating to doping. I would probably want to read the SI article again at some point but my memory would betray me as to the whereabouts.

 

[Spider1964]

Gee.. all this sounds familiar

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/05/21/5838202/local-track-coach-sues-olympic.html?rh=1

Olympic gold medal winner and track and field coach Jon Drummond is suing top sprinter Tyson Gay and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, alleging that they falsely accused him of administering and providing performance-enhancing drugs to the star athlete.

The defamation lawsuit was filed Wednesday in Tarrant County civil court against Gay and Travis Tygart, the chief executive officer of the USADA.

Drummond, who coached Tyson from 2007 to 2012, said he was notified in mid-April that the USADA intended to seek a lifetime ban against him, preventing him from participating in any professional activities related to track and field, according to the lawsuit.

Drummond says, he used his position in the sport to speak out against using banned substances and also discussed the subject in his capacity as an ordained minister. He says no other athletes he has coached have tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs.

Drummond “was absolutely stunned when rumors began to arise that either Mr. Gay himself or others intended to blame this positive test on Mr. Drummond,” the lawsuit says.

 

[Bannockburn]

Tip of the iceberg for NFL

Interesting aspect of this is that this isn't the first time we've seen former NFL players speak up. First it was the concussion issue, and now this. Makes me wonder if at some point, especially if long-term adverse health effects begin to manifest, former NFL players are a group that is more likely than most to get together and blow the lid on the whole operation.

And there most surely is an operation.

 

[Herbstrong]

Gee.. all this sounds familiar

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/05/21/5838202/local-track-coach-sues-olympic.html?rh=1

haven't people learned already not to question Tygart. You will not win. Ever.

 

[blackcat]

Well put Clausfarre.

The first few sentences of the article should be engraved on the front door of any anti doping agency



Anti doping still operates under this myth that athletes are inherently good and only a few bad eggs would dope.

It shockingly underestimates the power of the will to win - hillariously used as an argument for cleanliness

Tim Montgomery said he wanted the world record so badly, he didn't care if he died the second he stepped of the track.

Of course there are honest athletes in sport, and of course anti doping can improve things, but some idea of the realities of doping is neccesary before that can happen and with most sports they still think doping is something only some sociopath would try.

hitch this is a cogent reply, very insightful, so my question is, why have you been on my a r s e

professional and elite sport, and former Olympic amateur sport, is about performance. it has little relationship to adolescent sport and those inherent values.

 

[neineinei]

This is old, but it deserves to be dragged up again.

Doping experts have long known that drug tests catch only a tiny fraction of the athletes who use banned substances because athletes are constantly finding new drugs and techniques to evade detection. So in 2011, the World Anti-Doping Agency convened a team of researchers to try to determine more accurately how many athletes use performance-enhancing drugs.

More than 2,000 track and field athletes participated in the study, and according to the findings, which were reviewed by The New York Times, an estimated 29 percent of the athletes at the 2011 world championships and 45 percent of the athletes at the 2011 Pan-Arab Games said in anonymous surveys that they had doped in the past year.

By contrast, less than 2 percent of drug tests examined by WADA laboratories in 2010 were positive.

Since then WADA and IAAF has done their best to surpress the resarch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/sports/research-finds-wide-doping-study-withheld.html

John Hoberman, a University of Texas professor who is an expert on performance-enhancing drugs, said the study’s findings dispelled the notion that doping was a deviant behavior among a few athletes.

“Either the sport is recruiting huge numbers of deviants,” he said, “or this is simply routine behavior being engaged in by, more or less, normal people.”

He added, “That’s dangerous for WADA, because that’s a character issue.”

 

[SecomBe]

Nice to hear a swimmer talking about how much more needs to be done. I thought them all guilty by association.

http://www.supersport.com/aquatics/blogs/roland-schoeman/Drowning_out_drug_cheats

 

[D-Queued]

Nice to hear a swimmer talking about how much more needs to be done. I thought them all guilty by association.

http://www.supersport.com/aquatics/blogs/roland-schoeman/Drowning_out_drug_cheats

Sorry, couldn't help myself, but....

I suppose one could say that they are fully immersed in it.

Dave.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well, uh, just saw some former client of Eufemenio destroy the Basks of Madrid. Dont think foootie is clean...

F U Real.

 

[The Hitch]

This is old, but it deserves to be dragged up again.



Since then WADA and IAAF has done their best to surpress the resarch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/sports/research-finds-wide-doping-study-withheld.html

Wow. That is very important.

 

[Franklin]

Anti doping still operates under this myth that athletes are inherently good and only a few bad eggs would dope.

Innocent till proven guilty. I'd be truly hoorified if we abandoned that one.

So what to do? Serious question... what do you want to do which is both affordable and fits with our society?

 

[Franklin]

Wow. That is very important.

Sadly enough it's also not a surprise. As most of us here agree upon: Doping controls should not be put at the hands of the sports unions.

 

[stutue]

"Don Catlin, a prominent antidoping scientist, said he was not sure that WADA had the resources to rein in doping"

...is possibly the crucial statement.

 

[UlleGigo]

Dave Brailsford has been brought in by Wittle Woy Hodgson to give the England squad a 'pep' talk prior to the start of the World Cup.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-brailsford-set-england-chat-071917387--sow.html

Slight typo in the article. Should read PED talk.

 

[Almeisan]

Atletico got tired. Proof of doping!

 

[blackcat]

definitely taking gear, but who is not at Olympic Final level. Talented, not exactly a Michelle Smith level, not a fraud, but definitely on gear.

Zero chance he talks about roids and epo tho

ok, so last weeks Australian Story program on Perkins, he said he had not taken Stillnox(a benzodiazepam which has been used/abused for sleeping)
perkins says, never taken stillnox, never taken PEDs (i dont think he was asked so why does one volunteer this? <hint>) and NEVER SEEN PEDs in the team.

well, he would have known about the 1998 positive Swimming Australia covered up. He would know about Gennadi Touretski. So it is an interesting perspectiveon the definition he uses of SEEN. technically multiple etymologies he is correct, but, rhetoric he is using, this is mistruth.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Innocent till proven guilty. I'd be truly hoorified if we abandoned that one.

So what to do? Serious question... what do you want to do which is both affordable and fits with our society?

Sport isn't a court if law. But still, whats wrong with "suspicious until proven __________"?. Why do we have to start with presumed innocence given the historic doping culture of the sport with no indication of change in attitudes, enforcement, personnel or the sport's structure?

 

[blackcat]

Sport isn't a court if law. But still, whats wrong with "suspicious until proven __________"?. Why do we have to start with presumed innocence given the historic doping culture of the sport with no indication of change in attitudes, enforcement, personnel or the sport's structure?

right, we aint depriving anyone liberty.

and it is just a conversation on doping.

riders dope. deal with it peope

 

[manafana]

what makes me laugh is that german tv won't show cycling but continues to show the olympics, athletics and its football programme which has been well known for its suspicious doping.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Sport isn't a court if law. But still, whats wrong with "suspicious until proven __________"?. Why do we have to start with presumed innocence given the historic doping culture of the sport with no indication of change in attitudes, enforcement, personnel or the sport's structure?

Thats an OK position to have here, but not one for the relevant authorities.

To deprive someone of their income, there has to be a legal process followed.