Doping in other sports?

[blackcat]

armchair climber.

stride length has some relationship with the disadvantage on starting.

advantage on speed endurance, disadvantage on exploding from blocks, and accelerating to terminal velocity.



you just wish to pick and choose your characteristics. it does not work that way, one must be universal in collating all evidence, so you have some piece of positive evidence, but this positive evidence also works as a piece of negative evidence. Just ask someone here to demonstrate the applied physics formula of work and power required by Bolt out of the starting gates, compared to an athlete with shorter levers.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

I'm sorry if you feel i was being patronizing, it is never my intention to cause anyone any sort of hurt whatsoever,

So if you can just explain how one man can take so much time out of his PB's in two events, more time than any other male athlete in the history of the sport and more time than a whole plethora of other doped athletes then everything will be fine

But the fact is you haven't and your continuing statements about stride patterns and height etc etc are pointing to factors exactly based in the evolution of a human being and by extrapolation all human beings, as by the first mutant genetic diversion we begin the path of evolution.

So whether you meant to, or whether you did it by happy ignorant accident, you started bringing evolution into the discussion.

I am happy for you that you can believe in ONE athlete who beyond all reasonable evidence and against all historical suggestions within this sport, which is so riddled with drug cheats, has done something no-one else has done and no-one else can seem to have any faith in.

I am sure if you go back to the lance threads in the archives you can find some other people who will be able to share your faith in your fairy tale.

Oh and my first sentence was a joke!!!!

Your post came across as patronizing because in-fact it was. It does not hurt me, just makes you look an as%
Again your being a big as$. I saw many of Lances tour wins in the flesh and never ever thought he was clean.
Because I think Bolt his clean does not mean I have a fairy tale vision of sport. Your very presumptuous and obviously have not read many of my posts.

You mentioned evolution first, not me.

My point is about ONE athlete and if you take from that, we will all be evolving into sub 10 second sprinters that's your choice.

The fact that I don't agree with you seems to be your problem. I am happy for you to believe Bolt his doping I don't think in this case the evidence bears it out.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry if you feel i was being patronizing, it is never my intention to cause anyone any sort of hurt whatsoever,

So if you can just explain how one man can take so much time out of his PB's in two events, more time than any other male athlete in the history of the sport and more time than a whole plethora of other doped athletes then everything will be fine

But the fact is you haven't and your continuing statements about stride patterns and height etc etc are pointing to factors exactly based in the evolution of a human being and by extrapolation all human beings, as by the first mutant genetic diversion we begin the path of evolution.

So whether you meant to, or whether you did it by happy ignorant accident, you started bringing evolution into the discussion.

I am happy for you that you can believe in ONE athlete who beyond all reasonable evidence and against all historical suggestions within this sport, which is so riddled with drug cheats, has done something no-one else has done and no-one else can seem to have any faith in.

I am sure if you go back to the lance threads in the archives you can find some other people who will be able to share your faith in your fairy tale.

Oh and my first sentence was a joke!!!!

Your post came across as patronizing because in-fact it was. It does not hurt me, just makes you look an as%
Again your being a big as$. I saw many of Lances tour wins in the flesh and never ever thought he was clean.
Because I think Bolt his clean does not mean I have a fairy tale vision of sport. Your very presumptuous and obviously have not read many of my posts.

You mentioned evolution first, not me.

My point is about ONE athlete and if you take from that, we will all be evolving into sub 10 second sprinters that's your choice.

The fact that I don't agree with you seems to be your problem. I am happy for you to believe Bolt his doping I don't think in this case the evidence bears it out.

Sorry, but you have... A guy believing that the fastest sprinter can run a 0.3 seconds faster clean in just 100 meters than his doped
opponents believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes that the fastest sprinter can run 0.5 seconds faster clean than all other world class clean 100 m sprinters believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes the fastest sprinter can drop doped 100 m world records by 0.2 seconds believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes...

What do you expect? Ofc you get heat from others when ignoring all the facts presented to you on a table and then act like a old LA fanboy.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Jon 'Bones' Jones, the light heavyweight MMA champion who I mentioned recently has been "Persona non grata"-ed by the sport owing to a hit-and-run auto accident, his abandoned car found to be containing marijuana and marijuana paraphernalia.

Turns out the driver of the car he hit suffered a broken arm. And was pregnant. Ginormous civil suit to follow. And felony prosecution.for leaving the scene of an accident involving death or personal injury.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry if you feel i was being patronizing, it is never my intention to cause anyone any sort of hurt whatsoever,

So if you can just explain how one man can take so much time out of his PB's in two events, more time than any other male athlete in the history of the sport and more time than a whole plethora of other doped athletes then everything will be fine

But the fact is you haven't and your continuing statements about stride patterns and height etc etc are pointing to factors exactly based in the evolution of a human being and by extrapolation all human beings, as by the first mutant genetic diversion we begin the path of evolution.

So whether you meant to, or whether you did it by happy ignorant accident, you started bringing evolution into the discussion.

I am happy for you that you can believe in ONE athlete who beyond all reasonable evidence and against all historical suggestions within this sport, which is so riddled with drug cheats, has done something no-one else has done and no-one else can seem to have any faith in.

I am sure if you go back to the lance threads in the archives you can find some other people who will be able to share your faith in your fairy tale.

Oh and my first sentence was a joke!!!!

Your post came across as patronizing because in-fact it was. It does not hurt me, just makes you look an as%
Again your being a big as$. I saw many of Lances tour wins in the flesh and never ever thought he was clean.
Because I think Bolt his clean does not mean I have a fairy tale vision of sport. Your very presumptuous and obviously have not read many of my posts.

You mentioned evolution first, not me.

My point is about ONE athlete and if you take from that, we will all be evolving into sub 10 second sprinters that's your choice.

The fact that I don't agree with you seems to be your problem. I am happy for you to believe Bolt his doping I don't think in this case the evidence bears it out.

Sorry, but you have... A guy believing that the fastest sprinter can run a 0.3 seconds faster clean in just 100 meters than his doped
opponents believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes that the fastest sprinter can run 0.5 seconds faster clean than all other world class clean 100 m sprinters believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes the fastest sprinter can drop doped 100 m world records by 0.2 seconds believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes...

What do you expect? Ofc you get heat from others when ignoring all the facts presented to you on a table and then act like a old LA fanboy.

Its obviously winding you up as you have jumped in with your views concerning my views.
I have clearly stated my view. If you or any one else want to make presumptions about my views on other athletes with out knowing them, then that's your ignorance coming to the page.
You have made your case and I have listened/ read your posts.
I disagree, get over it.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry if you feel i was being patronizing, it is never my intention to cause anyone any sort of hurt whatsoever,

So if you can just explain how one man can take so much time out of his PB's in two events, more time than any other male athlete in the history of the sport and more time than a whole plethora of other doped athletes then everything will be fine

But the fact is you haven't and your continuing statements about stride patterns and height etc etc are pointing to factors exactly based in the evolution of a human being and by extrapolation all human beings, as by the first mutant genetic diversion we begin the path of evolution.

So whether you meant to, or whether you did it by happy ignorant accident, you started bringing evolution into the discussion.

I am happy for you that you can believe in ONE athlete who beyond all reasonable evidence and against all historical suggestions within this sport, which is so riddled with drug cheats, has done something no-one else has done and no-one else can seem to have any faith in.

I am sure if you go back to the lance threads in the archives you can find some other people who will be able to share your faith in your fairy tale.

Oh and my first sentence was a joke!!!!

Your post came across as patronizing because in-fact it was. It does not hurt me, just makes you look an as%
Again your being a big as$. I saw many of Lances tour wins in the flesh and never ever thought he was clean.
Because I think Bolt his clean does not mean I have a fairy tale vision of sport. Your very presumptuous and obviously have not read many of my posts.

You mentioned evolution first, not me.

My point is about ONE athlete and if you take from that, we will all be evolving into sub 10 second sprinters that's your choice.

The fact that I don't agree with you seems to be your problem. I am happy for you to believe Bolt his doping I don't think in this case the evidence bears it out.

Sorry, but you have... A guy believing that the fastest sprinter can run a 0.3 seconds faster clean in just 100 meters than his doped
opponents believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes that the fastest sprinter can run 0.5 seconds faster clean than all other world class clean 100 m sprinters believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes the fastest sprinter can drop doped 100 m world records by 0.2 seconds believes in fairy tales.
A guy who believes...

What do you expect? Ofc you get heat from others when ignoring all the facts presented to you on a table and then act like a old LA fanboy.

Its obviously winding you up as you have jumped in with your views concerning my views.
I have clearly stated my view. If you or any one else want to make presumptions about my views on other athletes with out knowing them, then that's your ignorance coming to the page.
You have made your case and I have listened/ read your posts.
I disagree, get over it.

LOLZ. You shall get over it. If you can´t face the truth, don´t cry out loud at Robert & others who tried to open your eyes. That´s all, that´s why I replied.

 

[D-Queued]

I'm with Ray on this one.

Don't know where you guys have all been. But I've been to the movies, and I watch TV.

And, I believe that Usain Bolt is either an Agent of Shield, an Inhuman or an Avenger.

He just came out of the chrysalis, or was it the mist, where he could express his full genetic endowment and be faster than anyone else ever. Well, except for the Flash and Pietro, of course.

Now that is the kind of evolution we are talking about. Perfectly rational.

Dave.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

I'm with Ray on this one.

Don't know where you guys have all been. But I've been to the movies, and I watch TV.

And, I believe that Usain Bolt is either an Agent of Shield, an Inhuman or an Avenger.

He just came out of the chrysalis, or was it the mist, where he could express his full genetic endowment and be faster than anyone else ever. Well, except for the Flash and Pietro, of course.

Now that is the kind of evolution we are talking about. Perfectly rational.

Dave.

OK, thanks Dave. Now I can see things clearer.
Ray, are you at least on the same page with Dave? He is the first one of your camp (I count good ol Armclimber too) who really gave a good, well thought and rationale explanation of why clean Bolt can run 9.5, while the next 100 or so clean world class sprinters only manage 10.0s and 10.1s...

So here is the list of clean 100 meter sprinters:
1st (Bolt) 9.5
2nd 10.0
3rd 10.0
4th 10.0
5th 10.0
89th 10.1
176th 10.1

... makes perfect sennse. Wish I could post that beauty of a bell-curve in graphics..

 

[D-Queued]

Somehow today's news seems oddly related to this topic:

IOC strips US of Olympic relay medals in (Tyson) Gay doping case

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/ioc-strips-us-of-olympic-relay-medals-in-gay-doping-case/ar-BBjJSqi

Of course, they only won silver.

Who won the gold? Cleans?

Good news that little Trinidad & Tobago now get the sliver. I wonder if they have an active ADA.

Dave.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Super cleans... shattering the old US doping record by 0.6 seconds. WRs by Bolt & Co come in tenths not in hundreths. Absolutely normal. Same gene pool, same island, same stride length, you know. I guess Ray and Arclimber agree?

 

[mrhender]

Re:

Somehow today's news seems oddly related to this topic:

IOC strips US of Olympic relay medals in (Tyson) Gay doping case

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/ioc-strips-us-of-olympic-relay-medals-in-gay-doping-case/ar-BBjJSqi

Of course, they only won silver.

Who won the gold? Cleans?

Good news that little Trinidad & Tobago now get the sliver. I wonder if they have an active ADA.

Dave.

Of course they have...

It's on Trinidad only though.. Tobago is.. Well Tobago...

 

[ray j willings]

Super cleans... shattering the old US doping record by 0.6 seconds. WRs by Bolt & Co come in tenths not in hundreths. Absolutely normal. Same gene pool, same island, same stride length, you know. I guess Ray and Arclimber agree?

Quote from somebody or other " Bolt does not take PED's" so there you have it Foxxy "proof"

and a nice graph that shows quite clearly that you have no evidence only guess work.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Look RayRay, you behave like a 3 year old kid whose toy got broken... and then can not accept reality.
Face the truth, or ignore it, but "have no evidence only guess work" applies solely to you.

Not only me, but D-Q, Blackcat, Robert, Hitch, MSTR, Tonton, and other gave you numbers, reasons, facts, why Bolt "achieved" his grotesque 100 & 200 meters times trou doping...
All you have OTOH is your blind love for Bolt and your funny feeling that he is clean. That is all. Less than mega LA fanboys like polish, BPC and WonderLance ever had. You topped them in your absurd POV. It´s quite an achievement... And now dream on, wait for Santa to come to you, and believe in your fairy tales.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Look RayRay, you behave like a 3 year old kid whose toy got broken... and then can not accept reality.
Face the truth, or ignore it, but "have no evidence only guess work" applies solely to you.

Not only me, but D-Q, Blackcat, Robert, Hitch, MSTR, Tonton, and other gave you numbers, reasons, facts, why Bolt "achieved" his grotesque 100 & 200 meters times trou doping...
All you have OTOH is your blind love for Bolt and your funny feeling that he is clean. That is all. Less than mega LA fanboys like polish, BPC and WonderLance ever had. You topped them in your absurd POV. It´s quite an achievement... And now dream on, wait for Santa to come to you, and believe in your fairy tales.

CANNOT ACCEPT REALITY ....

I admire you dedication and hope you can let it go and get a good nights sleep.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The last words on the issue for you. Have sweet dreams, don´t get wet on stride lengths.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Actually Ray I have read many of your posts and if you want I can go back over some of them
For instance in the brits dont dope thread you stated that Bolt had been winning and setting records since his teens and that he was obviously clean but Paula Radcliffe who was so openly against doping was obviously just drinking too much beetroot juice. Implying she was doped.

But the fact is that Paula had been setting records since her childhood and had her school, county and english junior cross country championships and records over distances from a very young age.

So according to your logic for Bolt she is obviously clean

Basically what I am saying is that it is blatantly obvious you are acting like a child who will use an argument to make a point and then argue the exact opposite when it suits them.

I also don't see what going to the tour de france has got to do with anything, Of course unless we look at it from a 3 year olds point of view. I'm better than you because I went to the tour and didn't believe in LA.

Guess what my little peadiatric friend, I have been to 14 tours and I have ridden across most of France and Spain and Italy and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this discussion. Or anything to do with any belief in any athlete.

So please stop the diversionary, irrelevances.

Lets just agree that all facts and evidence point to conclusion A - Bolt is a doped up freak.
Any you have an irrational and unexplainable belief in conclusion B - Bolt is superhuman and the next stage in sprinting evolution.

Oh and by the way while you are at it could you also explain why Bolt refuses to race in non diamond league meetings and won't stay in any country in the Europe that has stated they will drugs test athletes OOC. and only turns up for league meetings on the day before the race and leaves the day after or the night of the final.

And before you publish the PR nonsense his team came out with about TAX issues. HMRC have already debunked that myth.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Great post Robert. But you know what? It won´t help RayRay. He closed his eyes to all the facts many of us gave. He is not just like the usual "your doper is worse than mine" poster, no he is the kind of fanboy fanatic that twists arguments to his liking (as you gave a good example with Bolt vs Ratcliffe). As we know from the former LA fanboy threads, those people are blind to reality. They wanna live in wonderland no matter what... Matrix-like.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Actually Ray I have read many of your posts and if you want I can go back over some of them
For instance in the brits dont dope thread you stated that Bolt had been winning and setting records since his teens and that he was obviously clean but Paula Radcliffe who was so openly against doping was obviously just drinking too much beetroot juice. Implying she was doped.

But the fact is that Paula had been setting records since her childhood and had her school, county and english junior cross country championships and records over distances from a very young age.

So according to your logic for Bolt she is obviously clean

Basically what I am saying is that it is blatantly obvious you are acting like a child who will use an argument to make a point and then argue the exact opposite when it suits them.

I also don't see what going to the tour de france has got to do with anything, Of course unless we look at it from a 3 year olds point of view. I'm better than you because I went to the tour and didn't believe in LA.

Guess what my little peadiatric friend, I have been to 14 tours and I have ridden across most of France and Spain and Italy and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this discussion. Or anything to do with any belief in any athlete.

So please stop the diversionary, irrelevances.

Lets just agree that all facts and evidence point to conclusion A - Bolt is a doped up freak.
Any you have an irrational and unexplainable belief in conclusion B - Bolt is superhuman and the next stage in sprinting evolution.

Oh and by the way while you are at it could you also explain why Bolt refuses to race in non diamond league meetings and won't stay in any country in the Europe that has stated they will drugs test athletes OOC. and only turns up for league meetings on the day before the race and leaves the day after or the night of the final.

And before you publish the PR nonsense his team came out with about TAX issues. HMRC have already debunked that myth.

Hi. How you doing?
Now who's clouding the issue by bringing Paula into it and there is no need.
I made it quite clear I am just speaking about Bolt.

I have no Idea about Bolts racing schedule. Perhaps you could send him a email and find out. Oh and while your at it ask him what PED's he's taking.

"Guess what my little peadiatric friend, I have been to 14 tours and I have ridden across most of France and Spain and Italy and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this discussion. Or anything to do with any belief in any athlete"

Now there's no reason to get upset and Im sure like me you had a nice time in europe.

Nice intervention post, very enjoyable. Thanks

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Great post Robert. But you know what? It won´t help RayRay. He closed his eyes to all the facts many of us gave. He is not just like the usual "your doper is worse than mine" poster, no he is the kind of fanboy fanatic that twists arguments to his liking (as you gave a good example with Bolt vs Ratcliffe). As we know from the former LA fanboy threads, those people are blind to reality. They wanna live in wonderland no matter what... Matrix-like.

Good to see that you let it go and moved on

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

Hi. How you doing?
Now who's clouding the issue by bringing Paula into it and there is no need.
I made it quite clear I am just speaking about Bolt.


Actually the Paula comment is very relevant as you had derided her in your prior posts but are defending Bolt with an argument that goes for both of them

Both child prodigy's in their sport
Both hold world records
Both took chunks out of their PB's rather than taking them down slowly
Both are Vehement Deniers of doping
Both are vehement accusers and espouse life time bans for athletes caught doping (as Bolt has done recently in Justin Gatlins case)

So by your reasoning Paula is as clean as Bolt

And of course the classic and best of all

Neither have ever tested Positive.

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

However to assist you in your bid to convince everyone Ray it seems the IAAF are providing you with a lifeline
http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/jamaica-anti-doping-athletics

Published today the IAAF states they are pleased with the progress of the inspectors at JADCO
Shame Bolt wasn't in kingston for the invitational meeting in his home town - although with the IAAF and WADA in town and taking samples probably best eh?

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Hi. How you doing?
Now who's clouding the issue by bringing Paula into it and there is no need.
I made it quite clear I am just speaking about Bolt.


Actually the Paula comment is very relevant as you had derided her in your prior posts but are defending Bolt with an argument that goes for both of them

Both child prodigy's in their sport
Both hold world records
Both took chunks out of their PB's rather than taking them down slowly
Both are Vehement Deniers of doping
Both are vehement accusers and espouse life time bans for athletes caught doping (as Bolt has done recently in Justin Gatlins case)

So by your reasoning Paula is as clean as Bolt

And of course the classic and best of all

Neither have ever tested Positive.

You could use countless doped athletes in any analogy you want but I think Bolt is unique and clean.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

You could use countless doped athletes in any analogy you want but I think Bolt is unique and clean.

in the absence of evidence either way, why would you think he's clean when we know many of his countrymen dope?
i won't laugh if you say he never tested positive.
i think in this case it'd be a fair argument (because many of his countrymen did/do test positive, so apparently there is at least some more or less serious testing going on), but I would counterargue that there are all sorts of commercial reasons why Bolt might be heavily protected, invalidating the 'never tested positive' argument. Plus, he has the dough to get on the very best of programs, which means even if they do test him, he might still fly under the radar.

btw, he's a unique athlete, I agree, but are unique athletes less inclined to dope?

 

[ebandit]

the darling of world athletics must be clean.................................mustn't they..............

i had never appreciated just how tough ms radcliffe is.............that's how she was miles better in the marathon record.....she doe's not feel pain like you and me......i had not heard previously how running home for a club meet she never even noticed her spikes shredding her back...........cool story!

Mark L

 

[sniper]

Re:

the darling of world athletics must be clean.................................mustn't they..............

i had never appreciated just how tough ms radcliffe is.............that's how she was miles better in the marathon record.....she doe's not feel pain like you and me......i had not heard previously how running home for a club meet she never even noticed her spikes shredding her back...........cool story!

Mark L

she really is tough.
not answering to Race Radio's question on twitter.
Tough lady! Appreciate it.