- Mar 13, 2009
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the blackcat law: the inevitability in the modern era and sport as business, that a professional sporting organisation will have a massive doping reveal, before adopting more rigorous deception procedures and plausible deniability in principles from game theory.
I think he is significantly underestimating the 40%. try multiplying it by 240%.
And p'raps one percent, then went cold turkey. p'raps.
game theory and red queen effect (arms race).
You really think that Russia and the US are gonna do away with all their nukes but 100 each? No, they will keep on developing knew weapons and laser weaponry and have the equivalent materiel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materiel
the delgados said:
the blackcat law: the inevitability in the modern era and sport as business, that a professional sporting organisation will have a massive doping reveal, before adopting more rigorous deception procedures and plausible deniability in principles from game theory.
I think he is significantly underestimating the 40%. try multiplying it by 240%.
And p'raps one percent, then went cold turkey. p'raps.
game theory and red queen effect (arms race).
You really think that Russia and the US are gonna do away with all their nukes but 100 each? No, they will keep on developing knew weapons and laser weaponry and have the equivalent materiel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materiel
- Jul 18, 2010
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Six of her last seven fights ended in 66 seconds or less. Her last five fights lasted a combined 3:09.
After a 58-second win over Tate at UFC 168, she took the McMann fight 56 days later at UFC 170. McMann lasted 1:06, and she next fought Davis four and a half months later at UFC 184. Which made three fights in 189 days. But she broke her thumb against Davis's face, which required surgical repair, which sidelined her for seven and a half months.
Short bouts also extend a fighter's career, but unfortunately, RRR's are so ridiculously short (the longest of her most recent three was 0:34) that they limit the fan's opportunities to see the depth of her talent. RRR takes BJJ coaching from two of the grandsons of Helio Gracie, but what they teach her is last-ditch defence, something she has yet to have to resort to. Which illustrates that we can only guess how many other skill sets she has banked but that we might never witness on display.
Short bout duration limits damage (to her) and contributes to a quick turn-around.Dear Wiggo said:
Six of her last seven fights ended in 66 seconds or less. Her last five fights lasted a combined 3:09.
After a 58-second win over Tate at UFC 168, she took the McMann fight 56 days later at UFC 170. McMann lasted 1:06, and she next fought Davis four and a half months later at UFC 184. Which made three fights in 189 days. But she broke her thumb against Davis's face, which required surgical repair, which sidelined her for seven and a half months.
Short bouts also extend a fighter's career, but unfortunately, RRR's are so ridiculously short (the longest of her most recent three was 0:34) that they limit the fan's opportunities to see the depth of her talent. RRR takes BJJ coaching from two of the grandsons of Helio Gracie, but what they teach her is last-ditch defence, something she has yet to have to resort to. Which illustrates that we can only guess how many other skill sets she has banked but that we might never witness on display.
I can believe that 40% are brazen enough to do it openly.blackcat said:
- Apr 30, 2014
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I dispute that number anyway, I think it was a lot more than 40%. How would he know that only a few are doping now?
MLB forced cheaters to be much more careful, giving the illusion of cleanliness.
If anything, Affeldt is naive, although brave for the parting shots taken at his ex coworkers.
I think dinner at the Cabrerra's house is probably off..
Great question.the delgados said:
I dispute that number anyway, I think it was a lot more than 40%. How would he know that only a few are doping now?
MLB forced cheaters to be much more careful, giving the illusion of cleanliness.
If anything, Affeldt is naive, although brave for the parting shots taken at his ex coworkers.
I think dinner at the Cabrerra's house is probably off..
- Sep 29, 2012
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Yes, I get that short bouts are low impact. I guess I was thinking more the training / cutting / rehydrating (no idea what her cut has to be on average) and the hype, etc, all have a bearing on ongoing performance and general well-being.
But agreed, short bouts help.
I am naive and appreciated the theory Rogan proffered that UFC are using Rousey to publicise the other female fighters, even if it's by walking through them. ;-)
StyrbjornSterki said:
Yes, I get that short bouts are low impact. I guess I was thinking more the training / cutting / rehydrating (no idea what her cut has to be on average) and the hype, etc, all have a bearing on ongoing performance and general well-being.
But agreed, short bouts help.
I am naive and appreciated the theory Rogan proffered that UFC are using Rousey to publicise the other female fighters, even if it's by walking through them. ;-)
- Mar 13, 2009
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I think the F brothers and JR reckon there is another 30% latent market if they introduced female bouts.
has been a massive campaign behind RR in the msm media. I dont follow mma or the fight game.
they might see this as a backdoor to encroaching more into boxing. obviously, they overlap. But the queensberry or queennsbury rules never could create a corporate product in femme fatal(s). i fatale with an "e"? no, dont think so, just a different pronunciation.
obviously, this had to do with the unequal and culturally divided roles between the sexes when the fightgame ruled a century ago.
Dear Wiggo said:
I think the F brothers and JR reckon there is another 30% latent market if they introduced female bouts.
has been a massive campaign behind RR in the msm media. I dont follow mma or the fight game.
they might see this as a backdoor to encroaching more into boxing. obviously, they overlap. But the queensberry or queennsbury rules never could create a corporate product in femme fatal(s). i fatale with an "e"? no, dont think so, just a different pronunciation.
obviously, this had to do with the unequal and culturally divided roles between the sexes when the fightgame ruled a century ago.
- Jul 18, 2010
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They each have profited immeasurably off each other. RRR could never have reached this level of fame (and marketability) while at Strikeforce, and the UFC could never have turned women's MMA into such a profit-maker without RRR.
And it's only been in her last couple of fights that Rousey has been paid commensurate to any of the men at the top of the sport (largely because of longevity with the organisation), something that still can't be said for the other women. UFC's ROI is far greater for women fighters than for the men.
Plus the women fighters generate much less negative press, rarely show up on police blotters, and none of them has yet been popped for doping in the UFC. I'm sure Dana is kicking himself that he didn't try this years ago.
RRR's value to the UFC rises and falls with the perceived credibility of the challengers she fights, so they definitely have a vested interest in the other ladies boosting their credentials at Rousey's expense. For one thing, they have to be looking to filling her shoes in maybe less than three years.
Ronda has said she won't be fighting "into her 30s." Which she later expounded upon by stating that "30 isn't 30s," possibly a hint that she'll retire from fighting by her 31st birthday, which comes in early 2018. When she first came to the UFC, she said she figured her "brand value" would peak in about two years. But that obviously was an overly-conservative estimate because she already is seven months beyond that "Sell By" date and her star still is on the rise. Production doesn't begin until 2016 on her first starring film role as a woman bouncer in a remake of Patrick Swayze's 'Roadhouse.'
November's scheduled fight against Holm at UFC 193 would be her 13th professional match and her seventh in the UFC. If she continues to fight a minimum of twice a year, she might manage to get in an even dozen fights with the UFC before reaching the ripe old age of 31. But that's potentially all the good Dana will get from her, at least as a fighter, so he has got to be looking at finding a woman with the charisma and sex appeal, and most importantly, the fighting skills to fill the void on his P&L sheet if/when RRR turns into a pumpkin.
We know that in the case of cycling, the dopers minimised risk of exposure by forcing everyone on the team to participate. If he isn't doping, it might well be the clandestine dopers do not reveal themselves to him. So all he would be aware of are the ones doing it overtly. Ergo the 40%.blackcat said:
RRR is a bigger draw -- gate and PPV -- than men's flyweight champ, Demetrious 'Mighty Mouse' Johnson, who is widely touted as the most technically-proficient fighter on the planet, and whose only flaw is that he weighs but nine stone.blackcat said:
They each have profited immeasurably off each other. RRR could never have reached this level of fame (and marketability) while at Strikeforce, and the UFC could never have turned women's MMA into such a profit-maker without RRR.
And it's only been in her last couple of fights that Rousey has been paid commensurate to any of the men at the top of the sport (largely because of longevity with the organisation), something that still can't be said for the other women. UFC's ROI is far greater for women fighters than for the men.
Plus the women fighters generate much less negative press, rarely show up on police blotters, and none of them has yet been popped for doping in the UFC. I'm sure Dana is kicking himself that he didn't try this years ago.
RRR's value to the UFC rises and falls with the perceived credibility of the challengers she fights, so they definitely have a vested interest in the other ladies boosting their credentials at Rousey's expense. For one thing, they have to be looking to filling her shoes in maybe less than three years.
Ronda has said she won't be fighting "into her 30s." Which she later expounded upon by stating that "30 isn't 30s," possibly a hint that she'll retire from fighting by her 31st birthday, which comes in early 2018. When she first came to the UFC, she said she figured her "brand value" would peak in about two years. But that obviously was an overly-conservative estimate because she already is seven months beyond that "Sell By" date and her star still is on the rise. Production doesn't begin until 2016 on her first starring film role as a woman bouncer in a remake of Patrick Swayze's 'Roadhouse.'
November's scheduled fight against Holm at UFC 193 would be her 13th professional match and her seventh in the UFC. If she continues to fight a minimum of twice a year, she might manage to get in an even dozen fights with the UFC before reaching the ripe old age of 31. But that's potentially all the good Dana will get from her, at least as a fighter, so he has got to be looking at finding a woman with the charisma and sex appeal, and most importantly, the fighting skills to fill the void on his P&L sheet if/when RRR turns into a pumpkin.
- Jul 18, 2010
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Regarding recent allegations of UFC complicity in burying Vitor Belfort's stratospherically-high free Testosterone level in a 2012 test, the UFC's spin doctor, VP of PR Dave Sholler, said, "Any suggestion or inference that there was a cover-up regarding to that is just categorically false." But he went nowhere near explaining how a fighter with a free Testosterone level roughly 1/3° higher than is naturally possible was allowed to compete for the light heavywelght belt.
Asked specifically in a post-UFC 192 interview about the return of suspended former LHW champ Jon 'Bones' Jones "in 2016," Dana White said, "I don't know. Jon has some obligations to handle with his personal situation, and we'll see how that goes. I don't know how this is all going to play out. We'll see what happens next." My analysis of that reply, based on Dana's "tells" while making that statement, and the fact that through all this mess he has yet to say anything even remotely exclusionary about Jones, is that he will reinstate Jones at the earliest opportunity not deemed to make the organisation appear unduly weak on disciplining its fighters, provided Jones is at least minimally compliant with the court's ruling.
Asked specifically in a post-UFC 192 interview about the return of suspended former LHW champ Jon 'Bones' Jones "in 2016," Dana White said, "I don't know. Jon has some obligations to handle with his personal situation, and we'll see how that goes. I don't know how this is all going to play out. We'll see what happens next." My analysis of that reply, based on Dana's "tells" while making that statement, and the fact that through all this mess he has yet to say anything even remotely exclusionary about Jones, is that he will reinstate Jones at the earliest opportunity not deemed to make the organisation appear unduly weak on disciplining its fighters, provided Jones is at least minimally compliant with the court's ruling.
- Jul 18, 2010
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USA Today Sports is running a story on Novitzky and the USADA running the UFC's anti-PEDs program (link here). I might be making too much of this but I get the sense that Novitzky has a realistic view of the problem and is serious about finding a means to outsmart the dopers. There are many differing versions of "the scientific method," but It has always seemed to me that the one step the UCI et al. are omitting (or giving short shrift to) is analysing data to assess validity of the hypothesis (which, in this case, is "are any dopers evading detection?"). But MMA also will be a tougher nut to crack (than cycling) for the simple reason that there are almost no deterministic metrics to use in comparing fighter's performance. But if he can pull this off in the UFC, it should have applicability to other sports.
The MMA news sites also are running story today of Ronda Rousey's reaction to finding USADA testers waiting on her when she just had finished KO'ing Bethe Correia (in all of 34 seconds) at UFC 190 (01 August). The elation of the win, the press waiting for their interviews, her entourage wanting to commence the celebration (or get back to the hotel and get some sleep), and she finds she is to be held hostage by "the Vampires" for a further 20 minutes.
“‘What was her reaction?’” Novitzky recalled asking [of the USADA testers]. “They were like, ‘She couldn’t thank us enough. She said thank you guys so much for coming down here. You traveled all the way from the United States to do this, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate what you’re doing.’”
The MMA news sites also are running story today of Ronda Rousey's reaction to finding USADA testers waiting on her when she just had finished KO'ing Bethe Correia (in all of 34 seconds) at UFC 190 (01 August). The elation of the win, the press waiting for their interviews, her entourage wanting to commence the celebration (or get back to the hotel and get some sleep), and she finds she is to be held hostage by "the Vampires" for a further 20 minutes.
“‘What was her reaction?’” Novitzky recalled asking [of the USADA testers]. “They were like, ‘She couldn’t thank us enough. She said thank you guys so much for coming down here. You traveled all the way from the United States to do this, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate what you’re doing.’”
- Sep 29, 2012
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I'm with you -- no way Novitzky is going to track performances back to doping. Or should I say, I will be dumbfoundedly amazed if he can.
That's incredibly prescient PR coaching or a clean athlete, yeah?
StyrbjornSterki said:
I'm with you -- no way Novitzky is going to track performances back to doping. Or should I say, I will be dumbfoundedly amazed if he can.
StyrbjornSterki said:
That's incredibly prescient PR coaching or a clean athlete, yeah?
- Jun 14, 2010
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Saw an interview with Jo Montana. Asked about deflate gate he laughted and said "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying". Then asked if he personally cheated said "if you aint cheating you aint trying" and laughed again. Strongly suggested that was the culture in sports. If you want to win you push the rules. Seemed very honest. All in all America seems to be streets ahead of Europe on this issue were deluded bullies working at organizations like the bbc itv and sky amongst others continue to act like drugs are nonexistent in sports and all the athletes on this network pretend like sport is some children's world where everyone is moral.
- Jul 18, 2010
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Another UFC (MMA) fighter has been busted for weed. Francisco Trevino tested at 69ng/ml for THC-COOH after UFC 192 (03 October, Houston, Texas). He tested at 69ng/ml, which is below the UFC/WADA threshold, but unfortunately for Trevino, the UFC were compelled to abide by the host state's sports authority's more conservative 50ng/ml limit. He received an immediate 90-day suspension for the prohibited substance positive, with other punitive actions likely to follow an official review.
Tough night all around for Trevino. First, he missed weight four pounds, so the fight was conducted at a "catch weight," and win, lose or draw, he would forfeit 20% of his earnings on the evening to his opponent for failing to make weight. Then his opponent, highly touted UFC rookie Sage Northcutt, TKOs him in the first minute of the first round.
And then to complete his faux pas trifecta, after the fight, Trevino laid his hands on referee Herb Dean. Not once, but twice.
Minor shoves, nothing thrown with malice, but UFC code of conduct expressly forbids touching the referee in any fashion (although a friendly gesture, such as a pat on the back, likely would be overlooked). The first shove occurred whilst Dean was bear-hugging the fighter, who in his addled condition apparently did not realise the contest had ended, and Dean felt the embrace necessary to prevent him attempting to re-engage his opponent. But the second shove occurred after Trevino had broken contact with Herb, then he closed with the referee to shove him a second time.
Trevino claims he was only trying to secure the referee's attention, but that argument likely will fall on deaf ears as there is no UDRS/Instant Replay in UFC. The referee's signal that the bout has ended is final and incontestable. It's strictly "card laid, card played," so had he succeeded in securing Herb's attention, nothing he might have said could have altered the outcome.
Herb has stated he will not pursue any punitive action over the infractions, nor would I expect him to, considering the lack of intent. But that doesn't mean higher authority will share Herb's largess. The UFC's spin-meister, VP of PR Dave Sholler, has stated it is "unacceptable" ever to put your hands on anyone save your opponent, but AFAIK neither he nor any other UFC official has spoken to a possible consequence.
Trevino was 12-0-0 before signing with UFC, but this loss puts him at 1-2-0 in the new venue. I see nothing either in his past performance or his future promise that would curry him any favour with the Lord High Executioner, particularly when it comes to the offence of manhandling of one of his most sacred cows. I frankly am surprised that White hasn't already announced the intended date of the drawing and quartering. Random posters in the MMA forums regularly have been applying the dread "WWE" word to this incident, and part of Dana's charter must needs include defence of the sport's legitimacy in the face of such allegations. The UFC has an ongoing defamation suit against Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva over allegations of fight fixing he posted on Twitter (Silva having had his knickers in a twist ever since he was fired by White last year for dodging an OOC). In this instance, failure to punish -- and punish severely -- would IMHO set a dangerous precedent. But for Dana's sentence to have carried maximum effect, I should have thought Trevino would have received his notice of redundancy while he was towelling off after his post-fight shower.
Regarding Rousey's statement to the USADA vampires in Brazil, I find it a sad reflection on the state of professional sport that her most difficult opponent might be the public perception that there are no 'clean' sports, therefore any athlete who comes to dominate must by association be guilty of doping. One lesson learnt from the Lance Pharmstrong debacle was never to speak in absolutes about an athlete -- any athlete -- being clean, however, I see none of the hallmarks of PEDs in RRR's history. Her progression nowhere went on "fast-forward," as had been the case with other MMA noteworthies such as Anderson 'The Spider' Silva. Even her newfound punching prowess has been carefully scrutinised, and detailed in a Bleacher Report online article titled, "The Slow, Steady Evolution of Ronda Rousey's Striking."
But I am inclined to believe her statement was genuine if for no other reason than she can't act for ***. RRR has gone to great lengths to see to it we also get to scrutinise her acting prowess, and she might well be the worst athlete-turned-film-actor since "The Governator" Arnold Schwarzenegger in his pre-Conan period. If her "spontaneous" remark to the USADA men had come off even half as stiff and contrived as has every line she yet has delivered on film, I am comfortable that the USADA agents would have seen straight through her, and would have alerted Novitzky of their suspicions. And either that wasn't how it was conveyed to Novitzky, or he is pulling one hell of a feint, all the while focusing on Rousey like a laser.
Tough night all around for Trevino. First, he missed weight four pounds, so the fight was conducted at a "catch weight," and win, lose or draw, he would forfeit 20% of his earnings on the evening to his opponent for failing to make weight. Then his opponent, highly touted UFC rookie Sage Northcutt, TKOs him in the first minute of the first round.
And then to complete his faux pas trifecta, after the fight, Trevino laid his hands on referee Herb Dean. Not once, but twice.
Minor shoves, nothing thrown with malice, but UFC code of conduct expressly forbids touching the referee in any fashion (although a friendly gesture, such as a pat on the back, likely would be overlooked). The first shove occurred whilst Dean was bear-hugging the fighter, who in his addled condition apparently did not realise the contest had ended, and Dean felt the embrace necessary to prevent him attempting to re-engage his opponent. But the second shove occurred after Trevino had broken contact with Herb, then he closed with the referee to shove him a second time.
Trevino claims he was only trying to secure the referee's attention, but that argument likely will fall on deaf ears as there is no UDRS/Instant Replay in UFC. The referee's signal that the bout has ended is final and incontestable. It's strictly "card laid, card played," so had he succeeded in securing Herb's attention, nothing he might have said could have altered the outcome.
Herb has stated he will not pursue any punitive action over the infractions, nor would I expect him to, considering the lack of intent. But that doesn't mean higher authority will share Herb's largess. The UFC's spin-meister, VP of PR Dave Sholler, has stated it is "unacceptable" ever to put your hands on anyone save your opponent, but AFAIK neither he nor any other UFC official has spoken to a possible consequence.
Trevino was 12-0-0 before signing with UFC, but this loss puts him at 1-2-0 in the new venue. I see nothing either in his past performance or his future promise that would curry him any favour with the Lord High Executioner, particularly when it comes to the offence of manhandling of one of his most sacred cows. I frankly am surprised that White hasn't already announced the intended date of the drawing and quartering. Random posters in the MMA forums regularly have been applying the dread "WWE" word to this incident, and part of Dana's charter must needs include defence of the sport's legitimacy in the face of such allegations. The UFC has an ongoing defamation suit against Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva over allegations of fight fixing he posted on Twitter (Silva having had his knickers in a twist ever since he was fired by White last year for dodging an OOC). In this instance, failure to punish -- and punish severely -- would IMHO set a dangerous precedent. But for Dana's sentence to have carried maximum effect, I should have thought Trevino would have received his notice of redundancy while he was towelling off after his post-fight shower.
Regarding Rousey's statement to the USADA vampires in Brazil, I find it a sad reflection on the state of professional sport that her most difficult opponent might be the public perception that there are no 'clean' sports, therefore any athlete who comes to dominate must by association be guilty of doping. One lesson learnt from the Lance Pharmstrong debacle was never to speak in absolutes about an athlete -- any athlete -- being clean, however, I see none of the hallmarks of PEDs in RRR's history. Her progression nowhere went on "fast-forward," as had been the case with other MMA noteworthies such as Anderson 'The Spider' Silva. Even her newfound punching prowess has been carefully scrutinised, and detailed in a Bleacher Report online article titled, "The Slow, Steady Evolution of Ronda Rousey's Striking."
But I am inclined to believe her statement was genuine if for no other reason than she can't act for ***. RRR has gone to great lengths to see to it we also get to scrutinise her acting prowess, and she might well be the worst athlete-turned-film-actor since "The Governator" Arnold Schwarzenegger in his pre-Conan period. If her "spontaneous" remark to the USADA men had come off even half as stiff and contrived as has every line she yet has delivered on film, I am comfortable that the USADA agents would have seen straight through her, and would have alerted Novitzky of their suspicions. And either that wasn't how it was conveyed to Novitzky, or he is pulling one hell of a feint, all the while focusing on Rousey like a laser.
- May 26, 2010
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read this today and thought it very apt...
Dion Fanning writing for Sunday Independent about the Armstrong movie....
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/escape-is-the-only-thing-that-matters-in-a-world-of-illusion-34118400.html
Dion Fanning writing for Sunday Independent about the Armstrong movie....
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/escape-is-the-only-thing-that-matters-in-a-world-of-illusion-34118400.html
- Mar 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:Yes i know and i thoroughly enjoy your posts. You the DOG.
But i though some on the less inclined to take clinicians viewpoints as valid might take the view point of a published journalist as credible. Yes it is the way of some.
and in my egotistical way i just wanted the original credit, i know you would have read the working thesis on the delineation of professional sport, and Sport, juvenile and recreational sport v the business and entertainment and dream factory of the olympics
- Jun 16, 2015
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American film makers distort history all the time when it suits them to either big themselves up e.g U-571, or make the picture more appealing to a home audience e.g Braveheart. Most Americans believe what they see in films; they don't travel much and show a touching naivety about the wider world, hence their own ghastly history of foreign policy blunders.
Re:
We Europeans share in that same naivety, only we like to believe our own lies.Zebadeedee said:
- Jul 18, 2010
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The UFC released pot-smoking, referee-shoving Francisco Trevino. His release was among a list of 15 or so fighters made redundant AFAIK without further public comment from the UFC.
I read Ronda Rousey's book over the weekend, "My Fight/Your Fight." She bangs the anti-PEDs drum early and often, so she's nothing if not consistent.
I read Ronda Rousey's book over the weekend, "My Fight/Your Fight." She bangs the anti-PEDs drum early and often, so she's nothing if not consistent.
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