Doping in Soccer/Football

[Zam_Olyas]

forgot about Bale. He is the Froome of football. From average left back to the most expensive player in the world in a few years. Very impressive.

Dont worry Martin, I know he is british so the transformation can only be down to: laser-like focus, increased confidence and of course most importantly, hard work.

Do you have a different bale?

 

[Samson777]

Sorry, this is wrong on all accounts. I remember watching Bale for Southampton against Derby on the opening day of the Championship in 2006 live on Sky and he got a superb free-kick. He was left-back that day but you could see he was a top talent even then. George Burley his manager at Southampton at the time said he was going to be the best left back in the world. Arsenal and United were massively on the case of trying to get him before Spurs signed him. In the case of Ferguson, he seen him more as a left-winger and wanted him as the long-term replacement for Giggs. I don't think anyone expected him to be the most expensive player in the world, but his potential to be a top class player was widely known when he was 16/17. I myself, was hoping Arsenal would clinch the deal to get him back then.

Yes, it may have taken him a while to show his potential at Spurs but you couldn't be more wrong in terms of the Froome comparison by saying he came out of nowhere.

British has nothing got to do with it.

Have to agree on this one. Bale is actually a talent, but of course that doesn't mean he is not a doper..

 

[sniper]

http://www.n-tv.de/sport/Perverser-geht-es-fuer-Athleten-fast-nicht-article11763196.html
excellent read.
in german, sorry.

 

[Almeisan]

Pretty funny to see cyclists talk about football. I guess these damn football players keep throwing down those damn skill pills, the cheaters.

 

[attila]

A different approach

http://www.n-tv.de/sport/Perverser-geht-es-fuer-Athleten-fast-nicht-article11763196.html
excellent read.
in german, sorry.

After reading this, it might occur to some that the best doping control may be to eliminate WADA and use the >$20 million to give rewards for snitching on doping athletes, teams and Drs/therapists. Greed might work better than science.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

http://www.n-tv.de/sport/Perverser-geht-es-fuer-Athleten-fast-nicht-article11763196.html
excellent read.
in german, sorry.

Very good article.

 

[Alphabet]

Regarding the 'Froome of football', I would say that the closest to that, is Ramires. Full time bricklayer in 2004, playing for lower division Brazilian clubs until 2007, then bang, suddenly, a transfer to a big Brazilian club; two years later, to Benfica, and then Chelsea. 6 years from being a bricklayer to being on a 65,000 per week contract at one of the best teams in the world. Add on another 2 years and he's among the best in the world. Remarkable transformation, all the more suspicious since his game is pretty much entirely based on stamina and speed.

I wonder if they have bilharzia in Brazil?

 

[del1962]

Regarding the 'Froome of football', I would say that the closest to that, is Ramires. Full time bricklayer in 2004, playing for lower division Brazilian clubs until 2007, then bang, suddenly, a transfer to a big Brazilian club; two years later, to Benfica, and then Chelsea. 6 years from being a bricklayer to being on a 65,000 per week contract at one of the best teams in the world. Add on another 2 years and he's among the best in the world. Remarkable transformation, all the more suspicious since his game is pretty much entirely based on stamina and speed.

I wonder if they have bilharzia in Brazil?

You have obviously never played football

I don't see why Ramires is particularly suspicious, it is not like this has never happened before throughout the history of football.

 

[Alphabet]

Not at a professional level, no. Have you? And why is that relevant? You don't need to have cancer to analyse it's symptoms.

Also, you'll find that Ramires has very little to offer outside of his physical abilities. He isn't a good enough passer, dribbler, tackler etc. to warrant a big contract at one of the better teams going around. If he tears his hamstring, God forbid, or has some sort of knee issues like what Essien had, he'll quickly become useless at the top level of the sport.

Sure, there may have been others, but for me, on a Riis/Froome like level, Ramires is the first name that comes to mind. Admittedly he is still very young so there may have been natural progression, but I find it hard to believe somebody as talented as he is today wouldn't have been noticed prior to 2007.

 

[del1962]

Not at a professional level, no. Have you? And why is that relevant? You don't need to have cancer to analyse it's symptoms.

Also, you'll find that Ramires has very little to offer outside of his physical abilities. He isn't a good enough passer, dribbler, tackler etc. to warrant a big contract at one of the better teams going around. If he tears his hamstring, God forbid, or has some sort of knee issues like what Essien had, he'll quickly become useless at the top level of the sport.

Sure, there may have been others, but for me, on a Riis/Froome like level, Ramires is the first name that comes to mind. Admittedly he is still very young so there may have been natural progression, but I find it hard to believe somebody as talented as he is today wouldn't have been noticed prior to 2007.

I have seen enough of Ramires to know he has great skills, nor do I buy into the philosophy that make it at a later age is automatic doping, I would be more suspicious if a player had been at a top teams academy since their early teens and suddenly broke through at a later age, his obvioulsy has great stamina but that does not obviusly translate to must be dopng.

 

[Almeisan]

It baffles me that cyclists think they can judge if a player is blood doping on how well he plays.

And measuring if he runs too fast for too long, doesn't get injured enough, gains too much muscle in too short a time, is too lean for the diet he follows, is all impossible to tell based on what we see in a game of football.

'Transformations' in football are very easy to understand. Suddenly a player realizes what his strengths and weaknesses are and he gains a deeper understanding of the game and how he is to play it. Suddenly their strengths get magnified and their weaknesses remain hidden.

Not to mention this is a team sport where your perceived 'playing power' as to call it this, partly depends on your teammates as well as the synergy among the team. If a team plays better they suddenly appear to be 'more fit' or 'faster' when in fact if you measure it objectively they are not. They just play better because their passing game is more fine tuned. It's all completely deceptive.

Also football is a sport where even at the top level proper training methods, until recent years and maybe to this day, are rare. Football lags 10 or more years behind other sports in applying knowledge gained through research in exercise physiology.
So a player coming from a lower league in Brasil transferring to Europe is going to be exposed to an entirely new way of managing fitness. Compared this to endurance sports where, apart from doping, the slowest amateurs and the most elite pro's have the same knowledge about training programs.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I have seen enough of Ramires to know he has great skills, nor do I buy into the philosophy that make it at a later age is automatic doping, I would be more suspicious if a player had been at a top teams academy since their early teens and suddenly broke through at a later age, his obvioulsy has great stamina but that does not obviusly translate to must be dopng.

Psssst Del, Ramirez aint English, pssst.

Doping tests in football? Non existent.

 

[del1962]

Psssst Del, Ramirez aint English, pssst.

Doping tests in football? Non existent.

Does not matter if he is English or not, and I don't particularly like Chelsea, but I don't think anyone should just be insinuated as doping without evidence.

 

[Benotti69]

evidence of doping in football, Ryan Giggs and Paolo Maldini are 2 who play/ed way beyond the norm for football.

 

[BradCantona]

For a forum dedicated to doping, it's quite alarming how poorly understood the concept of doping 'evidence' is.

It may or may not be rife, but heresay, guesswork and smears get us nowhere.

 

[The Hitch]

You have obviously never played football

I don't see why Ramires is particularly suspicious, it is not like this has never happened before throughout the history of football.

it's happened before in cycling too. Indurain, Riis, Armstrong, etc.

 

[Benotti69]

For a forum dedicated to doping, it's quite alarming how poorly understood the concept of doping 'evidence' is.

It may or may not be rife, but heresay, guesswork and smears get us nowhere.

It is a forum not an anti doping agency.

The concept of 'anti doping' seems to be lost on most if not all sporting federations.

As for evidence, well it would be nice if anti doping worked, but it doesnt so therefore evidence is extremely hard to come by, especially when sporting federations work extremely hard to cover up all doping.

 

[gooner]

It is a forum not an anti doping agency.

The concept of 'anti doping' seems to be lost on most if not all sporting federations.

As for evidence, well it would be nice if anti doping worked, but it doesnt so therefore evidence is extremely hard to come by, especially when sporting federations work extremely hard to cover up all doping.

New rules were put in by Benson where accusations needed to be backed up by links or substance when saying someone definitely dopes. It's been blatantly ignored by some and it's a rule that seriously needs to be enforced.

I look forward to this regarding Giggs and Maldini.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Also football is a sport where even at the top level proper training methods, until recent years and maybe to this day, are rare. Football lags 10 or more years behind other sports in applying knowledge gained through research in exercise physiology.

This is patently false.

As an example, Nandrolone was prevalent in football before it was commonly used in cycling or other endurance sports.

 

[Benotti69]

New rules were put in by Benson where accusations needed to be backed up by links or substance when saying someone definitely dopes. It's been blatantly ignored by some and it's a rule that seriously needs to be enforced.

I look forward to this regarding Giggs and Maldini.

Giggs is 40 and playing Premier League football, what's to link?

Maldini finished playing at age 41(1 month short of his 42nd birthday) in Serie A.

If you want to believe they did that on bread and water goodluck to you.

 

[gooner]

Giggs is 40 and playing Premier League football, what's to link?

Maldini finished playing at age 41 in Serie A.

If you want to believe they did that on bread and water goodluck to you.

New rules Benotti, that isn't sufficient evidence of doping.

That's like me coming out of nowhere and saying Teddy Sheringham was doping for the same reason you suggested. It'd be laughed at.

 

[The Hitch]

For a forum dedicated to doping, it's quite alarming how poorly understood the concept of doping 'evidence' is.

It may or may not be rife, but heresay, guesswork and smears get us nowhere.

The man who pointed authorities in the direction of operation Puerto saying there were footballers there, delmoral saying footballers are the vanguard of doping, barca and Madrid working with fuentes, Guardiola a proven doper treated likens god, aren't evidence of rife doping in football?

 

[Benotti69]

New rules Benotti, that isn't sufficient evidence of doping.

That's like me coming out of nowhere and saying Teddy Sheringham was doping for the same reason you suggested. It'd be laughed at.

Applying for a mods job?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

The man who pointed authorities in the direction of operation Puerto saying there were footballers there, delmoral saying footballers are the vanguard of doping, barca and Madrid working with fuentes, Guardiola a proven doper treated likens god, aren't evidence of rife doping in football?

This and what Benotti said.

Footballers can always publish their blood passport results online if they want to remove suspicion.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

For a forum dedicated to doping, it's quite alarming how poorly understood the concept of doping 'evidence' is.

It may or may not be rife, but heresay, guesswork and smears get us nowhere.

Athletic Bilbao posted every in competition drug test their players were subjected to last season. There were 12. The only players tested multiple times were Carlos Gurpegui (who has served a ban for doping) and Raúl Fernández (the sub goalkeeper). Over half the first team were not tested at all in the season. While that may be an anomalous number, I pick on them because I follow them and because they post their dope test stats on their website.

Rabobank posted their 2009 tests online. Denis Menchov alone was tested 42 times. The least tested rider, Pedro Horrillo, didn't race after May because he crashed down a ravine and spent the rest of the year recovering never to race again. He was still tested twice as often as the most tested Athletic Bilbao player.

It's very easy not to find any evidence of doping when you have no intention of looking for it.