Doping in Soccer/Football

[blackcat]

brits dont dope. Their superior morals wouldnt allow it.

bring back the british empire. Thats the only way to show the rest of the world how to behave properly. And perhaps the 3rd world still has some resources to steal?

chariots of fire stiff upper lip gordonstoun muscular christianity tennyson byron magna carter east india trading raj all that jazz and helen mirren ftw

 

[gooner]

Yup, there's no way the upstanding FA would try and cover up any of our brave boys doping.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fallen-football-ace-garry-oconnor-4429103

Thanks for the superb non sequitar.

Garry O'Connor's positive was pointed out here a long time ago and the fact it was kept quiet by the FA. That news was broken on the Dispatches documentary on Channel 4.

It's recreational use and it's someone who had a personal problem with it where a period of professional help and rehab was needed. There's legit reasoning for keeping it on the hush at the time.

I've said this before, I suspect recreational use is more of a problem in the British game than PEDs themselves. A Four Four Two magazine among footballers has shown this, plus Ron Atkinson has spoken about it's use back in the 90s.

 

[The Hitch]

Thanks for the superb non sequitar.

Garry O'Connor's positive was pointed out here a long time ago and the fact it was kept quiet by the FA. That news was broken on the Dispatches documentary on Channel 4.

It's recreational use and it's someone who had a personal problem with it where a period of professional help and rehab was needed. There's legit reasoning for keeping it on the hush at the time.

I've said this before, I suspect recreational use is more of a problem in the British game than PEDs themselves. A Four Four Two magazine among footballers has shown this, plus Ron Atkinson has spoken about it's use back in the 90s.

How convenient. You think harmless personal use is a bigger issue in your favourite league in your favourite sport than cheating.

 

[slowspoke]

How convenient. You think harmless personal use is a bigger issue in your favourite league in your favourite sport than cheating.

But it IS cheating. They buried a positive test. Now if they would do that for a minor Premier league player, what would they do for a big time player? How independent is it? How open to abuse is it?

This isn't directed at you Hitch. I mucked up the reply function.

 

[gooner]

How convenient. You think harmless personal use is a bigger issue in your favourite league in your favourite sport than cheating.

Referring to the British game, yes.

Harmless? Garry O'Connor blew £4m of his own money on gambling and using this stuff. I gave two sources both of which are insiders in the sport with one being a recent poll involving players in England and Scotland, the other being an experienced football manager. This effects more in a personal context where it can destroy people's lives. You only have to see what it did to a good guy in Paul Merson.

Four Four Two poll:

The Players' Poll, published in the new issue of FourFourTwo (out now), surveyed 100 professional footballers across all four English divisions and the SPL – and the results will raise eyebrows in the game.
Half of the anonymous interviewees said that footballers use recreational drugs, particularly cocaine. "There's a lot of cocaine about because it leaves the system quickly," says an SPL midfielder, while a League One midfielder agrees: "I've witnessed it between team-mates and players from other clubs. I can't believe it goes on but it definitely does."
Although cocaine is not defined as a performance-enhancing drug, a significant number of the poll respondents believe 'doping' does go on in football. The survey reveals that 13 percent of players believe performance enhancers are used, with a further 19 percent neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/players-tell-fft-drug-taking-and-match-fixing

But it IS cheating. They buried a positive test. Now if they would do that for a minor Premier league player, what would they do for a big time player? How independent is it? How open to abuse is it?

This isn't directed at you Hitch. I mucked up the reply function.

Garry O'Connor was still banned and didn't cheat in doing this. This was an issue of personal reasons and the FA clearly saw it that way. Rightly kept it quiet giving him the leeway to get professional help without a media circus all over it.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

brits dont dope. Their superior morals wouldnt allow it.

bring back the british empire. Thats the only way to show the rest of the world how to behave properly. And perhaps the 3rd world still has some resources to steal?

I think it's inaccurate to say that Brits don't dope. You always get the occasional bad egg slipping through the net like Millar or Chambers. Thankfully these occurrences are pretty rare although it does seem likely that Bale is the latest to join in.

 

[Gavandope]

I think this is pretty general rule in football these days, not just in Britland.

Give me 50 pushups, run 100m under 12s and we will teach you how to play football.

Not in Germany for the past decade, they have the skill of the Spanish combined with the strength and power they've always had. Showed Brazil who have erred too far into the power area how to play football and gave them a deserved spanking.

I hear the English FA are finally going to do something about it by changing the way we coach kids like the Germans did after we spanked them 5-1 in Munich. Time for everyone to play catch up.

 

[Gavandope]

How convenient. You think harmless personal use is a bigger issue in your favourite league in your favourite sport than cheating.

I think doing coke is performance degrading until it's out of your system. I would halve or even quarter the bans for recreational drugs and double it for those that really count in football - blood doping etc would get a much harsher ban than even roids would, which is football seems to be nandrolone after bad ligament injuries, funny that they used Deca ;o)

 

[RownhamHill]

Referring to the British game, yes.

Harmless? Garry O'Connor blew £4m of his own money on gambling and using this stuff. I gave two sources both of which are insiders in the sport with one being a recent poll involving players in England and Scotland, the other being an experienced football manager. This effects more in a personal context where it can destroy people's lives. You only have to see what it did to a good guy in Paul Merson.

Four Four Two poll:



http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/players-tell-fft-drug-taking-and-match-fixing



Garry O'Connor was still banned and didn't cheat in doing this. This was an issue of personal reasons and the FA clearly saw it that way. Rightly kept it quiet giving him the leeway to get professional help without a media circus all over it.

To be fair to the Hitch's point though, it might be that 'insiders' are much happier to talk about recreational drug use than performance enhancing drugs, because culturally recreational drugs better fit the culture of football (let's be honest, probably most football fans don't consider recreational drug use anything other than a pain in the **** if you get caught), and because if you're taking PEDs that allow you to earn millions of pounds a year, but are cheating, you might be more inclined to keep your mouth shut about it.

You only have to look at the reaction to Kolo Toure's positive - the guy who explicitly took banned slimming pills in order to lose weight when recovering from injury so he could 'contribute' better to the team - and the way he was more or less given a free ride by the game, fans and media because 'they were his wife's pills' (as if, even at face value, that in any way makes it all right), to see that football is a game deeply in denial about the potential for PED abuse.

 

[the sceptic]

I think it's inaccurate to say that Brits don't dope. You always get the occasional bad egg slipping through the net like Millar or Chambers. Thankfully these occurrences are pretty rare although it does seem likely that Bale is the latest to join in.

So why is it that brits are so much better than other people?

The british empire created a culture where everyone realized cheating and exploiting other people is wrong?

 

[gooner]

To be fair to the Hitch's point though, it might be that 'insiders' are much happier to talk about recreational drug use than performance enhancing drugs, because culturally recreational drugs better fit the culture of football (let's be honest, probably most football fans don't consider recreational drug use anything other than a pain in the **** if you get caught), and because if you're taking PEDs that allow you to earn millions of pounds a year, but are cheating, you might be more inclined to keep your mouth shut about it.

You only have to look at the reaction to Kolo Toure's positive - the guy who explicitly took banned slimming pills in order to lose weight when recovering from injury so he could 'contribute' better to the team - and the way he was more or less given a free ride by the game, fans and media because 'they were his wife's pills' (as if, even at face value, that in any way makes it all right), to see that football is a game deeply in denial about the potential for PED abuse.

I agree on the Toure one but that has little to do with my point.

That poll was done on condition of anonymity. Without it you wouldn't have got anywhere near those figures for both PED and recreational use.

Recreational use is a huge story in media terms. O'Connor's and Merson's were front page news at the time. Atkinson created big headlines with his comments. Only recently two high profile members at a Premier League club were sacked because of it. The latter wasn't spoken about until a newspaper broke the story. Even the names haven't been disclosed. Make no mistake about it, it has a huge secretive element to it in preventing it coming out in the public domain.

Multiple sources have reported on significant recreational use in British football and much of it is inside knowledge.

Channel Four’s Dispatches *documentary last night claimed O’Connor was one of 43 players whose names have been withheld for testing positive for using recreational drugs such as cocaine, ecstasy and cannabis.

Another well known and much travelled player in the lower leagues Leon Knight.

Dispatches named more players whose failed drugs test for cocaine had been kept secret, including former Fulham striker Elvis Hammond, former Rochdale striker Lee Thorpe and former Crewe player Lloyd McGowan.

Hammond was banned for six months after testing positive in September 2003 and his promising career never recovered, while McGowan failed three drugs tests, twice in 2004 and once in 2005.

Ex-Chelsea trainee Leon Knight, who was at the club from 1999-2003, claims cocaine abuse is a major problem among players.

“Cocaine, in the last 10 years I’ve been involved in the game, has been strongly used,” he said.

Dispatches also alleged that the FA has hidden positive cocaine tests at Everton, Nottingham Forest and Tranmere.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fa-deny-drug-use-cover-up-after-3317091

Just because one thinks recreational use is in bigger use in the British game doesn't mean that you're somehow dismissive of possible significant PED use at the same time. That's not what I'm suggesting with the latter. I'm basing my opinion on various reports over the years.

 

[Gavandope]

So why is it that brits are so much better than other people?

The british empire created a culture where everyone realized cheating and exploiting other people is wrong?

Since when are we? There was me thinking that we're all homo sapiens that came from the Rift Valley nearly 200k years ago.

The only legacies of the British Empire that I'm proud of is the marvellous multicultural melting pot I live in called London and our organisation and ratification of pretty much the majority of organised sports played worldwide. Secrets such as doping won't take long to come out thanks to the media we have, most of which in fairness I wouldn't use it as a substitute for Andrex though.

Bale is a leek eating sheep befriend-er anyway

 

[the sceptic]

Since when are we? There was me thinking that we're all homo sapiens that came from the Rift Valley nearly 200k years ago.

The only legacies of the British Empire that I'm proud of is the marvellous multicultural melting pot I live in called London and our organisation and ratification of pretty much the majority of organised sports played worldwide. Secrets such as doping won't take long to come out thanks to the media we have, most of which in fairness I wouldn't use it as a substitute for Andrex though.

Bale is a leek eating sheep befriend-er anyway

My post is in response to someone who appears to believe that brits have some sort of superior morals that makes them less likely to dope.

Maybe im missing something, but how exactly is the british media going to uncover doping secrets? The media isnt independent and doesnt want to write about things that could potentially harm their own interests. And even if by some miracle someone should develop an independent thought, the libel laws will take care of them and silence their opinions.

 

[Gavandope]

My post is in response to someone who appears to believe that brits have some sort of superior morals that makes them less likely to dope.

Maybe im missing something, but how exactly is the british media going to uncover doping secrets? The media isnt independent and doesnt want to write about things that could potentially harm their own interests. And even if by some miracle someone should develop an independent thought, the libel laws will take care of them and silence their opinions.

The truth will leak out pretty quickly unless its in a very tight 'cell', and I have always maintained that if British riders dope they dope themselves with no team support, I don't think it would be feasible for a team to do it for long without some truth of it getting out.

I would say that our media is pretty independent, there may be media companies who would want it kept quiet but equally so other media companies who would have a field day at the expense of the other.

The libel laws I am fully aware of living here means I shall not mention the one we all know would like it kept quiet, but others such as the Independent, Telegraph and Guardian group in particular would be more than delighted to spill the beans at the expense of the main protagonist we both know the name of. I can cite the dust up between these groups over revelations of interceptions of communications over the past few years as a prime example of that.

 

[The Hitch]

But it IS cheating. They buried a positive test. Now if they would do that for a minor Premier league player, what would they do for a big time player? How independent is it? How open to abuse is it?

This isn't directed at you Hitch. I mucked up the reply function.

How are recreational drugs cheating? If anything they make you worse not better?

Doesn't put pressure on anyone else to.do it. Unlike peds. But of course athletes who tak rrcreational drugs would not take peds

This is the same nonesence as the argument that we know footballers don't dope because fifas big problem is corruption. Ergo they can't be doping because football can only have 1 problem at a time. And footballers can't both take recreational drugs and peds at the same time.

That's an illogical argument, the rrality is that someone who is taking recreational drugs relax after a day in a stressful pressure filled and painful on the body job is more likely to rely on peds. This was the case in wrestling in the 90s where performers developed essentially a schedule of mixing rec drugs for relaxation and peds for work.

Someone who has already crossed the line into rec drug use is far less likely to say no to ped drug use.

 

[the sceptic]

The truth will leak out pretty quickly unless its in a very tight 'cell', and I have always maintained that if British riders dope they dope themselves with no team support, I don't think it would be feasible for a team to do it for long without some truth of it getting out.

I would say that our media is pretty independent, there may be media companies who would want it kept quiet but equally so other media companies who would have a field day at the expense of the other.

The libel laws I am fully aware of living here means I shall not mention the one we all know would like it kept quiet, but others such as the Independent, Telegraph and Guardian group in particular would be more than delighted to spill the beans at the expense of the main protagonist we both know the name of. I can cite the dust up between these groups over revelations of interceptions of communications over the past few years as a prime example of that.

team sky disproves your point. If the media was independent they could ask all kinds of questions. But they dont. All they do is suck Brailsfords **** and write about what a great champion Froome is.

 

[The Hitch]

Funny how all these examples of doping in football, this Connor, toure, mills etc, all talk about some bull**** drugs. Some weight loss pill or one of injection.

No one has ever confessed to epo or been caught with epo or any real drugs. They just took some meaningless that won't really help or harm you drugs once or twice.
.
I think that proves football including the British version is rife with doping on levels cyclists could only imagine. If football really was somewhat clean there would be some stories coming out. The total silence is telling.

It's like a government about which the media never says a single bad word. Either the leader really is a hero of the people beloved by all with not a single detractor and naive fans can believe that. Or he's a dictator who coerces the media into silence.- what anyone with any life experience knows this is the real truth.

It's the same with the deathening silence in football on drugs. Either football is 100% clean and no one ever took epo. Or it's rife with drugs and omerta is feeding people the myth of paradise.

 

[The Hitch]

The truth will leak out pretty quickly unless its in a very tight 'cell', and I have always maintained that if British riders dope they dope themselves with no team support, I don't think it would be feasible for a team to do it for long without some truth of it getting out.

I would say that our media is pretty independent, there may be media companies who would want it kept quiet but equally so other media companies who would have a field day at the expense of the other.

The libel laws I am fully aware of living here means I shall not mention the one we all know would like it kept quiet, but others such as the Independent, Telegraph and Guardian group in particular would be more than delighted to spill the beans at the expense of the main protagonist we both know the name of. I can cite the dust up between these groups over revelations of interceptions of communications over the past few years as a prime example of that.

The guardian and telegraph were as proud of those achievements as that other company you mention, if not more so and in fact they came up with more ridiculous arguments than that other company ever did.

 

[Gavandope]

The guardian and telegraph were as proud of those achievements as that other company you mention, if not more so and in fact they came up with more ridiculous arguments than that other company ever did.

They did, though I heard far more which didn't get into print or on the web thanks to a couple of mates who have worked at pretty much all of them!

 

[Gavandope]

team sky disproves your point. If the media was independent they could ask all kinds of questions. But they dont. All they do is suck Brailsfords **** and write about what a great champion Froome is.

I could not possibly comment other than my opinion about my suspicions about British riders doping not teams still applies.

Having proof that will stand up in court is crucial. Affidavits, pictures, in this current era of camera phones with geo tagging of pictures and voice recorders it's not that difficult I believe to expose that in a team environment with a disgruntled employee selling it to a paper.

A tight 'cell' of rider plus perhaps one or two other accomplices will be a far harder nut to crack to prove altogether, not only to the press but to the UCI and WADA too and even their own team! Which is what I believe due to the evidence suggests to me that's what the elite peloton have been doing for a good few years never mind just only in this country..

 

[the sceptic]

Funny how all these examples of doping in football, this Connor, toure, mills etc, all talk about some bull**** drugs. Some weight loss pill or one of injection.

No one has ever confessed to epo or been caught with epo or any real drugs. They just took some meaningless that won't really help or harm you drugs once or twice.
.
I think that proves football including the British version is rife with doping on levels cyclists could only imagine. If football really was somewhat clean there would be some stories coming out. The total silence is telling.

It's like a government about which the media never says a single bad word. Either the leader really is a hero of the people beloved by all with not a single detractor and naive fans can believe that. Or he's a dictator who coerces the media into silence.- what anyone with any life experience knows this is the real truth.

It's the same with the deathening silence in football on drugs. Either football is 100% clean and no one ever took epo. Or it's rife with drugs and omerta is feeding people the myth of paradise.

Imagine if some newspaper got the idea that they were going to pursue the issue of doping in football. Maybe they could get away with an article or two.. But I bet they would get in real trouble pretty fast. Lawsuits, advertiesers going away.. Why would they do that when they can safely write about nonsense that is a proven method to make them more money than uncovering doping scandals could ever do.

I would guess football is like cycling in the 90s but with better science and doctors. I mean we have evidence of EPO use a long time ago.. but the players are still fitter than ever these days.

I think the only way to get the ball rolling would be a highly respected former player coming clean on everything.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

So why is it that brits are so much better than other people?

The british empire created a culture where everyone realized cheating and exploiting other people is wrong?

A bit confused by your post to be honest? Brits better than everyone else? At what exactly?

 

[Gavandope]

A bit confused by your post to be honest? Brits better than everyone else? At what exactly?

Shin kicking or perhaps masters of ironic and sarcastic humour? Like taking the mickey out of our fellow Brits, such as that sheep sh*gger chimp eared Bale who is possibly having a stronger sauce than HP down in Paella-land nowadays - allegedly

 

[thrawn]

A bit confused by your post to be honest? Brits better than everyone else? At what exactly?

You seem to indicate that only a very small number of Brits dope.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

You seem to indicate that only a very small number of Brits dope.

That's what the evidence suggests. I don't deny that some Brits dope, I am highly suspicious of Bale, Murray and Farah for starters. I only compared Britain to Spain though, a country where doping isn't just overlooked, it's pretty much compulsory.