Doping in Soccer/Football

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Oct 16, 2010
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agreed.

The whole Russian system needs a massive overhaul.

Where western countries were importing vast numbers of East Bloc doctors and coaches in the (late) 70s, 80s, and 90s, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia would now start importing British and American doctors in order to get their programs updated.
Under the guise of clean sport of course.
UKAD reviewing RUSADA seems to have been a start in that direction.
 
Re:

sniper said:
agreed.

The whole Russian system needs a massive overhaul.

Where western countries were importing vast numbers of East Bloc doctors and coaches in the (late) 70s, 80s, and 90s, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia would now start importing British and American doctors in order to get their programs updated.
Under the guise of clean sport of course.
UKAD reviewing RUSADA seems to have been a start in that direction.

What irony that would be. Not to go off topic, but the Brits, in my humble opinion, operated on some extremely suspicious ways in the past decades, especially the last couple Olympics, especially AT HOME (sound familiar?), clearly improving. Wouldn't be shocked if it was some of their own 'state sponsored systematic doping.'
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
sniper said:
Ever since 1988, I've always thought of Russia as a country with huge football potential, and I've been expecting a lot from them, but basically they've been a massive disappointment in the past twentyfive years or so, with some rare exceptions at the club level.
Based on football, I would argue Russia have definitely NOT been leading the peds arms race in the past 25 years or so.

And isn't that the irony: the evidence that has been unearthed in the last one or two years indeed suggests Russian sport in the post-communist era is characterized by rather amateuristic doping schemes.

They don't have the talent as of now that can compete with the other top nations. They screwed the pooch in 2012, 2014 AND this past summer in France. Plus a lot of their starters are past their prime. You could clearly see that this summer when they were getting outplayed by the Slovakians (let alone the English, who are, let's be fair, not that impressive themselves). They were slow and didn't seem to have the tactical acumen. Does that equate to no doping, or less doping, or more doping? Not sure. But they are going to need a lot more than some old school needle work to start contending for titles. Just my thoughts.
Agree, the talent isn't there. Advocaat was complaining about this before Euro 2012. Capello had problems with changing it up too. It's a big talking point in Russia.

Chalov with CSKA is one to look out for. There aren't too many others though.
 
You can n't make this stuff up! Seems to be the opposite of what Team Sky are doing ...
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38463120
https://twitter.com/DripDoctors/status/813850573497741312
Sevilla midfielder Samir Nasri is being investigated by the Spanish Anti-Doping Agency (AEPSAD) over treatment he received at a Los Angeles clinic.

The Drip Doctors clinic posted a tweet saying the on-loan Manchester City star had been given an immunity IV drip.(see http://www.dripdoctors.com/immunity-drip.php for what this involves)

It triggered a series of embarrassing tweets, which were subsequently deleted, leading to the Frenchman claiming his account had been hacked.

The drip given to Nasri, 29, may break World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) rules.

The immunity IV drip involves one litre of hydration and is designed to "combat superbugs and common viruses", according to the Drip Doctors website.

Wada place a 50ml limit on IV infusions for active athletes in six-hour periods unless it was "received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures or clinical investigations".

A statement from AEPSAD said it had "commenced an investigation into treatment used by football player Samir Nasri".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/2490959/drip-doctors-meet-glamorous-jamila-sozahdah-at-the-centre-of-samir-nasris-bizarre-twitter-sex-storm-in-los-angeles/
"... Man City flop Nasri is also rumoured to have indulged in "sexual services" during his trip to the Drip Doctors clinic in LA after his Twitter account was 'hacked' on Tuesday night.

Someone with access to Nasri’s account claimed that the health professional who visited him had performed additional services not available on their official treatment list.

The Frenchman has denied the suggestions and says that his girlfriend Anara had not only booked the exclusive treatment but also been present the whole time to rule out any unacceptable behaviour."

EDIT - https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2494078/samir-nasri-anara-atanes-twitter-hack-drip-doctors-jamila-sozahdah/
According to The Sun, Nasri's ex-girlfriend is behind the Twitter hack and the story.
 
Dec 25, 2016
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I'm baffled by this many Spanish footballers are known to take part in Regenerative Medicine (Growth factor, Blood enrichment therapies...etc), most interesting of this is the world leading experts happens to be a Barcelona resident by the name of Ramon Cugat who not only works in one of the biggest and best funded hospitals in Europe (one of the many privately owned Quiron hopsitals) but also runs his own private foundation who works on stem cells and other regenerative therapies. I understand the interest in Nasri's case but I think its funny people are looking at the team who right now is 3rd in the ranking and not the 2 other teams (Real and Barca) who've been dominating European football for nearly a decade.

ps: Nasri only played 13 games vs Ronaldo's 19 who happens to be 31.
 
Dec 25, 2016
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To make things even more interesting the intensity which both Barca and Real are able to play make 90s Juventus/Parma look like amateurs. I don't think there are any doubts as to what was happening inside those teams.In regards to Milan I think Capello success comes more from an incredibly well drilled team with an ability to defend that is undoubtedly the greatest of all time. A streak of 1-0 victories is what made that team undefeated as opposed to the constant steam rolling Real and Barca are capable of.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

sniper said:
Arguably more interesting still, doctor of the German soccer team that won the 1990 worlds was granted an EPO experimentation/research project in 1988.
https://twitter.com/MaRoVisions/status/815810070898425856
So that's Heinz Liesen:
In den 1980er betreute er nicht nur über neun Jahre die deutsche Nationalmannschaft in der Nordischen Kombination, sondern war auch Mannschaftsarzt der deutschen Fußballnationalmannschaft der Herren bei den Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften 1986 und 1990.
In the 80s he worked not only with the German nordic skiers but was also team doctor of the German men's soccer team at the world championships of 1986 and 1990.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Liesen
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Re:

sniper said:
Chelsea's current coach Conte was one of Juve's players using EPO in 1994.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/815849627278786560
I pointed this out on twitter to a football journalist(new sports editor this week at The Independent) to start questioning Conte on this after he was quick to throw mud at cycling after the Wiggins scandal.

Apparently it's "time consuming" and it's ridiculous to want a "weekly football doping column"- something I never asked for, just to address it more. Because if there is one thing that annoys me more than anything, is football journalists commenting on easy targets like cycling and athletics every time a scandal arises while ignoring their own sport in the process. I see it quite regularly.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Re: Re:

sniper said:
sniper said:
Arguably more interesting still, doctor of the German soccer team that won the 1990 worlds was granted an EPO experimentation/research project in 1988.
https://twitter.com/MaRoVisions/status/815810070898425856
So that's Heinz Liesen:
In den 1980er betreute er nicht nur über neun Jahre die deutsche Nationalmannschaft in der Nordischen Kombination, sondern war auch Mannschaftsarzt der deutschen Fußballnationalmannschaft der Herren bei den Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften 1986 und 1990.
In the 80s he worked not only with the German nordic skiers but was also team doctor of the German men's soccer team at the world championships of 1986 and 1990.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Liesen
Heard of this guy before.

Google translate:

Especially in the period of the end of the seventies and the eighties, there were some indications. In his sensational book "kickoff" describes the former national goalkeeper Toni Schumacher in 1987 , for example, the processes involved in DFB during the World Cup a year earlier in Mexico.

Schumacher reported on the "medical surplus supply of the team" by the medical team around Professor Heinz Liesen. The players would have "lots of tablets" have to swallow, also "it rained syringes. Professor Liesen himself of 3000 injected". According to Schumacher, it is said to have been vitamins, electrolytes, "hormones for height adjustment", calf blood extract, bee honey extract and cetera. Sleeping tablets. After the tournament he fell into a phase of depressed fatigue. "We have been in Mexico pumped full and then left alone," he Liesen accused later.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/enthuellungen-um-mediziner-kluemper-der-fussball-weiss-was-doping-ist-1.2375597
 
Oct 16, 2010
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gooner said:
sniper said:
Chelsea's current coach Conte was one of Juve's players using EPO in 1994.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/815849627278786560
I pointed this out on twitter to a football journalist(new sports editor this week at The Independent) to start questioning Conte on this after he was quick to throw mud at cycling after the Wiggins scandal.

Apparently it's "time consuming" and it's ridiculous to want a "weekly football doping column"- something I never asked for, just to address it more. Because if there is one thing that annoys me more than anything, is football journalists commenting on easy targets like cycling and athletics every time a scandal arises while ignoring their own sport in the process. I see it quite regularly.
in total agreement.

Soccer is in a place where procycling could only dream to be: a place where absolutely nobody cares about the doping.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

gooner said:
sniper said:
sniper said:
Arguably more interesting still, doctor of the German soccer team that won the 1990 worlds was granted an EPO experimentation/research project in 1988.
https://twitter.com/MaRoVisions/status/815810070898425856
So that's Heinz Liesen:
In den 1980er betreute er nicht nur über neun Jahre die deutsche Nationalmannschaft in der Nordischen Kombination, sondern war auch Mannschaftsarzt der deutschen Fußballnationalmannschaft der Herren bei den Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften 1986 und 1990.
In the 80s he worked not only with the German nordic skiers but was also team doctor of the German men's soccer team at the world championships of 1986 and 1990.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Liesen
Heard of this guy before.

Google translate:

Especially in the period of the end of the seventies and the eighties, there were some indications. In his sensational book "kickoff" describes the former national goalkeeper Toni Schumacher in 1987 , for example, the processes involved in DFB during the World Cup a year earlier in Mexico.

Schumacher reported on the "medical surplus supply of the team" by the medical team around Professor Heinz Liesen. The players would have "lots of tablets" have to swallow, also "it rained syringes. Professor Liesen himself of 3000 injected". According to Schumacher, it is said to have been vitamins, electrolytes, "hormones for height adjustment", calf blood extract, bee honey extract and cetera. Sleeping tablets. After the tournament he fell into a phase of depressed fatigue. "We have been in Mexico pumped full and then left alone," he Liesen accused later.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/enthuellungen-um-mediziner-kluemper-der-fussball-weiss-was-doping-ist-1.2375597
cheers.
Very interesting.
Enough there for an investigative reporter to eat his heart out.
But I doubt anyone wants to go down that route (or is allowed to go down it).
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
gooner said:
sniper said:
sniper said:
Arguably more interesting still, doctor of the German soccer team that won the 1990 worlds was granted an EPO experimentation/research project in 1988.
https://twitter.com/MaRoVisions/status/815810070898425856
So that's Heinz Liesen:
In den 1980er betreute er nicht nur über neun Jahre die deutsche Nationalmannschaft in der Nordischen Kombination, sondern war auch Mannschaftsarzt der deutschen Fußballnationalmannschaft der Herren bei den Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften 1986 und 1990.
In the 80s he worked not only with the German nordic skiers but was also team doctor of the German men's soccer team at the world championships of 1986 and 1990.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Liesen
Heard of this guy before.

Google translate:

Especially in the period of the end of the seventies and the eighties, there were some indications. In his sensational book "kickoff" describes the former national goalkeeper Toni Schumacher in 1987 , for example, the processes involved in DFB during the World Cup a year earlier in Mexico.

Schumacher reported on the "medical surplus supply of the team" by the medical team around Professor Heinz Liesen. The players would have "lots of tablets" have to swallow, also "it rained syringes. Professor Liesen himself of 3000 injected". According to Schumacher, it is said to have been vitamins, electrolytes, "hormones for height adjustment", calf blood extract, bee honey extract and cetera. Sleeping tablets. After the tournament he fell into a phase of depressed fatigue. "We have been in Mexico pumped full and then left alone," he Liesen accused later.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/enthuellungen-um-mediziner-kluemper-der-fussball-weiss-was-doping-ist-1.2375597
cheers.
Very interesting.
Enough there for an investigative reporter to eat his heart out.
But I doubt anyone wants to go down that route (or is allowed to go down it).
That's a fantastic find dude. Again, I'm astonished at the *** you find sometimes.

As far as investigative reporters going after this kind of thing though, just not going to happen, for a while.
 
Re: Re:

gooner said:
sniper said:
Chelsea's current coach Conte was one of Juve's players using EPO in 1994.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/815849627278786560
I pointed this out on twitter to a football journalist(new sports editor this week at The Independent) to start questioning Conte on this after he was quick to throw mud at cycling after the Wiggins scandal.

Apparently it's "time consuming" and it's ridiculous to want a "weekly football doping column"- something I never asked for, just to address it more. Because if there is one thing that annoys me more than anything, is football journalists commenting on easy targets like cycling and athletics every time a scandal arises while ignoring their own sport in the process. I see it quite regularly.
Good job on pointing this out to the journo and arguing with him.

I used to get angry about this hypocrisy myself. Now that my romanticism for cycling is mostly gone, I have a different take on it.

I believe that cycling and athletics have to be fully exposed as doping sports, before football will be touched.

Some might say, cycling is already exposed, but so long as people believe that cyclists only doped in the past, or that the previous IAAF head was corrupt, but the current one is fine, and Bolt is clean and all the olympic heroes are fighting doping, then football will always be shielded.

Because football is the big world sport, bigger than all other sports combined. It is at the centre. All other sports are on the periphaey, shielding it. You need to eat into that periphery, destroy it, and only then can you get into football.

In the meantime, let these idiots delude themselves that football is a utopia. I think behind all the glory, fame and untold riches, theres plenty of nasty characters in there, soccer versions of Verbruggen, Coe, Mcquaid, Lance etc, making life hell for others. These young men are using their bodies for scientific experiments, they are risking their wellbeing day in day out. Fifa admitted the widespread painkiller addictions, which is just the surface. I think football is in a bad place, its never good to live a lie, it always hurts you at the end, so let them all rot in this delusion afaic.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ESPN summary of the above mentioned report:

Work with the blood-booster EPO began on March 11, 1988 -- two weeks after the Winter Olympics in Calgary, following rumors that Soviet cross-country skiers had used it to improve their performances.
The German soccer federation refused access to its archives, the report says.
The researchers also struggled to access official documents covered by a 30-year secrecy rule, and Spitzer told broadcaster RBB Inforadio that all the important files related to doping were destroyed before the project could begin.
Files did reveal that anabolic steroids were being used by West German athletes, including runners, rowers, soccer players and cyclists, as early as 1960.
http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/9539712/west-germany-cultivated-culture-doping-study-says
 
The alleged Juventus doping in the 1980's - We know that a number of Italian football teams used exotic and cutting edge substances at that time - There are questions as to whether those substances were on the banned list at the time - The more damning suspicion is that a number of players years later became seriously ill and even died. There are links between the substances and illnesses.
 
To the above links on German doping, that's spot on. I've shared a number of similar articles looking into doping in the Bundesliga, the German national team (1954 and the famous upset of Hungary, and later on when Beckenbauer acknowledged the team took pills/tablets for recovery before and after games. Then came the doping in the 1970's and 1980's, most notably linked to SC Freiburg and FC Stuttgart, ironically Joachim Loew, the current national team coach for Germany, played for both clubs when this was happening. Freiburg, well, I think those of us that have posted and read the clinic for a while now, will know the infamous medical center in Freiburg and its many links to top German but also foreign athletes. The lab has been linked to Team Telekom, the German XC and Biathlon national teams, SC Freiburg, Bernhard Kohl (or is that the Vienna center?), various football individuals and clubs, triathletes, etc.

There are numerous links for that story that broke out in August 2013 about the study that says W. Germany systematically doped its athletes. Not a surprise. Also not a surprise that it hasn't made more headway and no post-study investigation has been done by German and anti-doping authorities on that, first with former players, coaching staff, leaders, doctors, managers, but also to see what sort of activity has taken place after German reunification. Is there systematic doping now in German sport? Football? XC skiing? Biathlon?

Plenty of coaches trained in East Germany have taken positions after reunification. I guess it doesn't matter anymore. It's as if once Germany unified, all 'systematic doping,' stopped....right?
 
Aug 20, 2016
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Craig Pickering, a world championship 4x100m medallist, agreed there was a perception football was treated differently. “Compare how Lizzie Armistead was treated recently after her missed-tests/filing errors, and City’s filing errors,” he said. “They’re not direct like-for-like comparisons but they’re similar enough. Mark Richardson was handed a two-year ban for taking nandrolone in 1999 but Jaap Stam and Pep Guardiola were handed five and four-month bans just a few years later.”
 
Individual and team sports are treated differently in relation to the 'whereabouts clause' - You are an in an individual sport and its up to the individual, whereas as in team sports it's their responsibility to notify the relevant NADO.

Don't get to hang up on team sports - The WADA Code is predicated on individual sports and those of an Olympic bent, and is unsympathetic to team sports and Non-Olympic sports.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Good interview with The Secret Footballer. He's asked about PED use.

You write about players using creatine, which is obviously legal to use, but do you think there’s an issue in football with illegal (or indeed, legal) performance-enhancing drugs. Did you ever come across it in your experience of playing the game and do you believe it’s naive to assume football doesn’t have the kind of problems that other sports, most notably cycling and athletics, have suffered from in recent times?

I think that recreational drugs in the summer are rife. Cocaine is rife in the summer. Ecstasy is common too. But in season, recreational drugs are pretty much — although there are one or two rare exceptions — non-existent.

It just isn’t worth the risk, there is so much to lose and everybody knows the rules and the implications. And I don’t think many players miss recreational drugs, because they never took them in the years before they became footballers.

The vast majority of us, while not being a fully fledged professional until we’ve signed that first contract, have acted as professionals since we were 10 years old. So recreational drugs don’t often cross our paths. It’s the exposure to recreational drugs at an early age that is dangerous, but footballers tend to sidestep those pitfalls.

The concern is if so-called doping doctors infiltrate our game. There is already a ban in this country on blood spinning to increase white-blood cell count and speed up injury healing, but it’s legal in Germany. So we all travel to Germany and come back again.

Morally, you may argue that that is wrong, but then you would be biased towards the fact that we consider it illegal rather than contemplating the fact that it is legal elsewhere, and not in the back of beyond, but in a first world footballing hotbed.
http://www.the42.ie/secret-footballer-interview-2-3194751-Jan2017/?utm_source=twitter_self
 

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