Doping in Soccer/Football

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

What do you think happened?

I don't know, hence why I asked the question.

I just thought you maybe had some idea, or a wild guess.

I think you have it the wrong way round.

The people that believe in clean sport (especially for their heroes), are the ones who claim to know exactly how everything takes place. They know for a fact that their favourite athletes never took EPO and never took steroids and never took testostrone and never took Aicar and that theyve never been offered it and that they are moral people etc.

We on the other hand are far more simple people. We know that athletes dope. How where and when, we realize are questions we cannot answer since unlike the believers, we don't believe things without evidence
Those of

 

[kingjr]

What are you talking about man, I'm not asking you to 'know' anything, so I fail to understand who you are adressing in your 1st paragraph or how it relates to my post. I repeat, I just thought you maybe had some idea or theory, if you don't that's fine, neither have I.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

What are you talking about man, I'm not asking you to 'know' anything, so I fail to understand who you are adressing in your 1st paragraph or how it relates to my post. I repeat, I just thought you maybe had some idea or theory, if you don't that's fine, neither have I.

Its just the same old shot at how football gets away with doping, especially in the ultimate hypocrite land - Germany.

Goetze's decline might have nothing to do with doping. I have no idea what it is. But whenever i see his name I am reminded of how Germany had a team of super skilled and super physical players in the world cup.

His achievement is greater than any other sports person can ever acheive. A cyclist could win the TDF 20 times and it will never be as big as scoring the winning goal in a world cup final. You can win 40 olympic goals and it will never be as big. That the footballers get away with it while other athletes get scrutinized is for me always the biggest injustice in sport and doping.

 

[ppanther92]

This is quite anecdotal, but seems plausible and is talked about in Germany off the record: Goetze was a Wunderkind early on and as such he had the status of a teen idol. As we know, football stars get judged by their look today too and Goetze fought with a receding hairline early on. The rumors are he took finasterid to solve the problem, which was of course a big mistake, as it serves as an anti-androgenic. Combine that with possible hormone doping since years and its very reasonable to conclude he destroyed his hormonal axis. This is also in line with the fact that he trains a lot, but still has a bad fitness level, lots of muscular problems and fatigue and the latest development, where the team's doc found out that there is "something wrong with his blood values".

 

[Red Rick]

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No *** problem

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No **** problem

I mean obviously there was a lot of stuff at play there. They got very lucky towards the end, with how the ball fell, with the decisions, PSG made mistakes etc. It was more than just strong play, but there was also skill.

However, to beat a team like PSG 6-1 in 90 minutes, and outplay them the way Barcelona did, controlling the ball throughout, is a massive physical effort too.

The parts of the game I watched, the commentators were talking about what a tragedy it is that Barca lose this game, and leave the competition at such an early stage. The pressure on the team from the whole city and wider community of Catalunya is massive.

Lets just say that if the tests in football weren't so strict and prevalent, there would be very little to stop a team from doping under this situation.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No **** problem

Did anyone ask the same question when PSG won the first leg by 4 goals ?

Strange indeed !

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No **** problem

Did anyone ask the same question when PSG won the first leg by 4 goals ?

Strange indeed !

yeah, and win discrepancy does not = proportion.

#randomness

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No **** problem

Did anyone ask the same question when PSG won the first leg by 4 goals ?

Strange indeed !

Yes they did and the assumption was PSG outdoped Barca. Similar behaviours could be identified during the Euros when an average Italian team outdoped Spain.

I maintain that England did not dope during that championship and played out of their skin to beat Wales with a doped Bale. Only to lose to a heavily juiced Icelandic team who in turn were outdoped by France.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Turning a 4 goal deficit into a win and advance in CL? No **** problem

Did anyone ask the same question when PSG won the first leg by 4 goals ?

Strange indeed !

Yes they did and the assumption was PSG outdoped Barca. Similar behaviours could be identified during the Euros when an average Italian team outdoped Spain.

I maintain that England did not dope during that championship and played out of their skin to beat Wales with a doped Bale. Only to lose to a heavily juiced Icelandic team who in turn were outdoped by France.

Can you show me the posts in this thread where PSG were called out after defeating Barcelona ?

Yours is another ' throw it away ' post which lacks credibility.

 

[T_S_A_R]

Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

The "tell" is the ability to press. It's not clear that all the players are charged for every game of a given season. I suspect that, just like in cycling, certain games (races) are targeted and certain players agree to charge up.

As a "non-believer" (as inexperienced as I am) I was intrigued by England under Roy Hodgson. I have suspicion that firstly under Gerrard and then Rooney, an agreement was reached by the players with the coach not to charge during summer tournaments (in other words, they made me a temporary "believer" again). As a measure of the advantage doping affords a committed team therefore I offer the Icelandic pub XI who made their relatively clean English opponents look ridiculous in 2016.

I further contend that doping was behind the tensions during the Capello regime especially in South Africa 2010 as a dispute broke out between the Chelsea dopers and the then England captain Steven Gerrard.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

This has been happening in football for the last 30 years - Go back to AC Milan and especially Juventus who were running around like supermen.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

This has been happening in football for the last 30 years - Go back to AC Milan and especially Juventus who were running around like supermen.

30 years

So going back to the mid 80's. When EPO and steroids exploded on the sports scene.

Is that what you mean?

 

[The Hitch]

Haha. This is hillarious:

Messi manages a top speed with the ball faster than one of the best NFL running backs does while doing a timed sprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyr0oVJSXE

 

[ppanther92]

Not a single reason to believe, football isn't one of the most juiced up sports around. Combine the immensely financial strength with the utter lack of control and you could put the puzzle together. Also the profile of a world class player is complex. Run like an endurance athlete, while having the needed strength and top that of with agility that needs to be preserved.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

This has been happening in football for the last 30 years - Go back to AC Milan and especially Juventus who were running around like supermen.

30 years

So going back to the mid 80's. When EPO and steroids exploded on the sports scene.

Is that what you mean?

The difference is that some and probably most of the substances taken at time were probably legal - Not that it helps a number of Italian footballers who suffered serious health issues.

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Like this?

Whoever saw PSG vs Barcelona knows PSG just stepped up another level. Making a team full of World Class footballers looking like children, even though PSG also has first level players demands something else.

Basically PSG did to Barcelona what Barcelona did to everybody else for the past decade, they entered the pitch more charged than the opponents.
Great match to watch though

The Barcelona pressing games was insane on Wednesday. Mascherano was non stop.

This has been happening in football for the last 30 years - Go back to AC Milan and especially Juventus who were running around like supermen.

30 years

So going back to the mid 80's. When EPO and steroids exploded on the sports scene.

Is that what you mean?

The difference is that some and probably most of the substances taken at time were probably legal - Not that it helps a number of Italian footballers who suffered serious health issues.

Interesting. I didn't know that, the details of football doping has kinda passed me by.
Just did a quick google and found this article an interesting ( and quick) read:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/apr/30/newsstory.sport9

Exactly as you say, 'legal' drugs, and used openly.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Haha. This is hillarious:

Messi manages a top speed with the ball faster than one of the best NFL running backs does while doing a timed sprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyr0oVJSXE

Maybe Messi looks cleaner when he gets tackled by some NFL players

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

Not sure if directed at me but no! there's no reason to assume that. Probably up to their eyeballs on everything innit.

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

Haha. This is hillarious:

Messi manages a top speed with the ball faster than one of the best NFL running backs does while doing a timed sprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyr0oVJSXE

Yep, good illustration of Messi's...erm...'amazingness.'
Really impressive too though cos the NFL players are about as juiced up as you can get.

(As an aside, what a incredibly annoying effing video. Why the hell does American TV present stuff like this. I felt like smashing the laptop half way through).

 

[frisenfruitig]

Re: Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

Not sure if directed at me but no! there's no reason to assume that. Probably up to their eyeballs on everything innit.

You'd have to be stupid not to tbh.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

It's only illegal if its on the prohibited list - Back in the 1980's/1990's there was no WADA Code underpinning all sports - So different sporting federations had a hot potch of banned substances and the IOC tended to over-arch all Olympic Sports - Remember we are discussing professional football, so their list of banned substances would be limited 30 years ago.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

Not sure if directed at me but no! there's no reason to assume that. Probably up to their eyeballs on everything innit.

We are talking about Italian football Seria A going back 30 years ago - Different drug codes ( if any at all ) were in existence at that time - There was no WADA so sports ran their own race - Because a sporting team used substances that are banned in 2017, doesn't mean they were banned in 1987 - My guess is few have thought through the issue.