Doping in Soccer/Football

[Zam_Olyas]

Footballers have enlarged hearts according to study

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2012/04/footballers-have-enlarged-hearts-according-to-study/

A three-year study undertaken in Siena by a cardiology clinic suggests that professional footballers have different characteristics in the shape of their hearts.
The study which began in August 2009 in the Santa Maria alle Scotte hospital came to the conclusion that the heart has different cardiovascular characteristics that are peculiar to athletes and adapts in a dynamic manner during the season based on the type of training.
“In footballers, the cardiac chambers and muscular mass of the heart are enlarged, with ulterior incremental improvements in the functional capacity of the organ,” explained Doctor Andrea Causarano.
It involved monitoring the cardiac function of the players over the past three seasons, “allowing excellent results in the area of scientific research.
“This is important when optimizing training to improve performance with great focus on health. These observations were presented at various Italian and European cardiology seminars.’ clarified Professor Sergio Mondillo.
“With further tests on stem cells in the youth team players, we also noted how intense training or a sedentary lifestyle provides a different stimulus to the production of stem cells and therefore probably different mechanisms for self-repair.”
The heart problems in football players have been much concerned issue in recent weeks with the death of Livorno’s Piermario Morosini and collapse of Fabrice Muamba.

 

[T_S_A_R]

did anyone watch the sky coverage of the classico? the commentator said something along the lines of 'barca have become known for their reseveres of energy although some have been skeptical where they get if from'.

i was expecting barca to absolutely flying for the semis and the classico. they've actually been very sluggish in the games so far.

 

[nevada]

It will be interesting to see how they perform tonight.

 

[LeakyLens]

interesting interview here by a blogger with Ned Boulting who does the Tour de france on ITV. they talk about a good few things but start to discuss doping in football and cycling towards the end....

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/05/cycling-and-football/

 

[sniper]

interesting interview here by a blogger with Ned Boulting who does the Tour de france on ITV. they talk about a good few things but start to discuss doping in football and cycling towards the end....

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/05/cycling-and-football/

thanks for the link! The doping discussion starts at around min. 43.

very very interesting discussion indeed. Lots of clinic-level realism and common sense in that interview including some great observations.

Boulting does an excellent job explaining why the theme of doping is less of an issue -- in the eye of the public that is -- in football than it is in cycling.
unfortunately, he seems to slightly underestimate the importance of doping in football at the end, not recognizing the direct link between technique and PEDs, which i believe is rather strong. (The interviewer does seem to be very aware of benefits of PEDs in football).

 

[sniper]

Like if you ever see the high intensity pressing game high up the pitch that Barca do since under Guardiola I think PEDs would be very useful in football for that aspect of football.

BTW sniper you might be interested in this article and video about the Bayern Munich doctor Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt. He pushes the medical side of sport right to the extremes and limits. You always see him on the sidelines and bench of Bayern Munich games.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...fahrta-great-healer-quack-hyperactive-syringe

thanks gooner.

the likeness between M-W and a certain Fuentes is quite remarkable.
Like Fuentes, M-W doesn't exactly look or sound like a genius either. And both have the looks of being REALLY dodgy figures.

Not sure what he invented that would give him such fame in sports medicine. Perhaps he's used by Bayern more as a "Homeopathic-treatment" smokescreen?

Anyway, as far as German football is concerned, the past two seasons I've been wondering more about Dortmund. Very young guys with extreme stamina. New training methods? New system?

 

[Caruut]

Like if you ever see the high intensity pressing game high up the pitch that Barca do since under Guardiola I think PEDs would be very useful in football for that aspect of football.

BTW sniper you might be interested in this article and video about the Bayern Munich doctor Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt. He pushes the medical side of sport right to the extremes and limits. You always see him on the sidelines and bench of Bayern Munich games.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...fahrta-great-healer-quack-hyperactive-syringe

He is about as suspicious as you could possibly be. He doesn't explain how his treatments work because he doesn't have time, apparently. His miracle treatment sounds a lot like blood doping to treat muscle injuries, which is obviously illegal (though that doesn't stop footballers from doing it).

 

[The Hitch]

They said another young Spanish footballer died. This time of cancer. Dont know the details but is that not 3 top flight Spanish footballers under 25 who have died from health problems in the last 5 or so years. When Spain won the euros in 2008 they had Antonio puerta written on their shirts, when they won in 2010 it was dani jarque and now looks like it will be another final another name on the Spanish "siempre con nosotros" list at the final of a international torunament


Cancer is of course a bit different to sudden death syndrome, and of course 99% of the time has nothing to do with doping.

There are believed to be links though between products like cortisone, and cancer.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Just wanted to hear some people's opinions on this. I mean, we have all heard of two big Spanish teams being linked to OP, and team/s in Italy with their masses of legal drugs. But how widespread do people think it is in football/soccer? Try as I might, I can't imagine Fulham or Wigan players injecting themselves with whatever before a match.

(I don't think there is a thread on this, but I apologise if there has been - the only other sports I have seen talked about in any depth are US football and baseball.)

There is alot of doping in all sports, football included.. the thing is, its not as crazy usage etc as you see in endurance sports.

I do however think that this is talked down alot and its also not as widespread as in endurance sports, but I've personaly seen alot of "small doping" in football.. in rare cases you see people dying from it even.


One of the reasons the focus is not so harsh on sports like football etc, is the fact that its a team sport where "endurance" is not the only mean of talent you need, whereas a runner only have one talent ^^

This is atleast my opinion.

 

[goggalor]

Brilliant display of endurance by Spain today. They seemed just as fresh in the 119th minute as in the 1st, and were just bulldozing Portugal in extra time.

 

[hrotha]

Brilliant display of endurance by Spain today. They seemed just as fresh in the 119th minute as in the 1st, and were just bulldozing Portugal in extra time.

Seriously? Because Spain hasn't been anything special in the physical department at all. It was Portugal putting up a super hard and physically demanding pressure for much of the game, and in the extra time it was mostly Pedro and Fàbregas (who started from the bench) doing the running.

I think you guys have become so accostumed to Spain being a doper's paradise you have lost any objectivity to analyze the matter. Just like when people claimed Spain's physical game was at the top 2 years ago during the WC, when they were clearly surpassed by nearly all their rivals and had real trouble towards the end of their games.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Spain will always look the fresher team. The got the ball 60 % of the time..

 

[goggalor]

I think you guys have become so accostumed to Spain being a doper's paradise you have lost any objectivity to analyze the matter. Just like when people claimed Spain's physical game was at the top 2 years ago during the WC, when they were clearly surpassed by nearly all their rivals and had real trouble towards the end of their games.

Good point, there may be some confirmation bias on my part. Spain did completely take over in extra time, but then as DD said they also had 60% possession and Portugal always had a player near whoever had the ball in the first 90.

 

[Bala Verde]

Brilliant display of endurance by Spain today. They seemed just as fresh in the 119th minute as in the 1st, and were just bulldozing Portugal in extra time.

Because the ball is always faster than a player, the quick, short passing, high possession game from Spain would actually help to conserve energy. If you have ever done rondos, you know that the ones in the middle will always end with their tongues on their shoes.

When Spain manages to play this style for 90 minutes or even 120 minutes, forcing Portugal to chase, they are effectively breaking down Portugal. At one point the other team will be too tired to do anything else but defend.

While putting pressure on the ball and the passing players - by chasing or hurrying Spain - is probably the most effective to disrupt their typical style, you know you can only maintain that high level or intensity for so long. Even the fittest team will eventually be out of breath.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Brilliant display of endurance by Spain today. They seemed just as fresh in the 119th minute as in the 1st, and were just bulldozing Portugal in extra time.

With the awful play and poor endurance in the regualar match, they should have been more active in the extra time!!!

Its one of the worse matches in a long long time. Btw, they keep statistics on how much each person runs, did you know that some of the Spanish players didnt run more then 7 kms ^^ think about that for a secound.

 

[The Hitch]

There is alot of doping in all sports, football included.. the thing is, its not as crazy usage etc as you see in endurance sports.

I do however think that this is talked down alot and its also not as widespread as in endurance sports, but I've personaly seen alot of "small doping" in football.. in rare cases you see people dying from it even.


One of the reasons the focus is not so harsh on sports like football etc, is the fact that its a team sport where "endurance" is not the only mean of talent you need, whereas a runner only have one talent ^^

This is atleast my opinion.

You only mention endurance.

Drugs also help with speed, strength and injury recovery, and those together are crucial.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

You only mention endurance.

Drugs also help with speed, strength and injury recovery, and those together are crucial.

Idd. I was merely trying to state, that its easier to spot in "pure" endurance sports, rather than sports like football..

Thats was my intend of the post. I could go as far as to claim, that all sports have doping to some degree.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

There is alot of doping in all sports, football included.. the thing is, its not as crazy usage etc as you see in endurance sports.

I do however think that this is talked down alot and its also not as widespread as in endurance sports, but I've personaly seen alot of "small doping" in football.. in rare cases you see people dying from it even.


One of the reasons the focus is not so harsh on sports like football etc, is the fact that its a team sport where "endurance" is not the only mean of talent you need, whereas a runner only have one talent ^^

This is atleast my opinion.

The bigger the sport the crazy the usage. For example: MLB; The Mitchell report, Canseco, Bonds, etc... Anyway: Up to 80% used/uses steroids in MLB.... and i played that game in league ball, where i was told drugs don´t work (regarding springiness).

There ain´t no saint sports. The bigger the money, the dirtier the sport. Cycling isn´t in this league (like FIFA, MLB, NHL, NFL, IOC).

 

[Dr.Sahl]

The bigger the sport the crazy the usage. For example: MLB; The Mitchell report, Canseco, Bonds, etc... Anyway: Up to 80% used/uses steroids in MLB.... and i played that game in league ball, where i was told drugs don´t work (regarding springiness).

There ain´t no saint sports. The bigger the money, the dirtier the sport. Cycling isn´t in this league (like FIFA, MLB, NHL, NFL, IOC).

I don't think its as crazy as with endurance sports, but sure all sports have doping at some degree and some are more visable than others, that is really my point..

But one thing to remember, you don't need to be doped to be a world start football player (since you got other tools and talents than just your endurance) but, you might have a hard time following Armstrong up on a MT if you didnt take anything.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I don't think its as crazy as with endurance sports, but sure all sports have doping at some degree and some are more visable than others, that is really my point..

But one thing to remember, you don't need to be doped to be a world start football player (since you got other tools and talents than just your endurance) but, you might have a hard time following Armstrong up on a MT if you didnt take anything.

Disagree! But i like you think about it...
Someone mentioned a MLB-Article from ESPN, here in the clinic....

Baseball players who refused to dope got stolen careers. Simply b/c the `roid guy added 10 mph on his fastball.

Conclussion: Don´t fall into the trap of sport xy needs more talent (less doping) than sport z..... The bigger the money the dirtier. That´s all it is.

No.1: FIFA
No.2: IOC
No.3: NFL
...

No.57: UCI

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Disagree! But i like you think about it...
Someone mentioned a MLB-Article from ESPN, here in the clinic....

Baseball players who refused to dope got stolen careers. Simply b/c the `roid guy added 10 mph on his fastball.

Conclussion: Don´t fall into the trap of sport xy needs more talent (less doping) than sport z..... The bigger the money the dirtier. That´s all it is.

No.1: FIFA
No.2: IOC
No.3: NFL
...

No.57: UCI

There is a whole lot a difference on Baseball and football ^^ just saying.. people don't really look that much upon who, runs the most or shoots the hardest.. (again there is so many other things) but I agree, that many would benefit from the doping, but not as much as a athlet doing endurance sport or IE. Baseball speed/power actually makes a difference...

I would argue that a pro football player need more diversity in his talants than a Baseball player, but it ends up in a matter of opinion..

Atleast we agree about one thing, it does not matter what sport we talk about, all have PED in them ^^

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

There is a whole lot a difference on Baseball and football ^^ just saying.. people don't really look that much upon who, runs the most or shoots the hardest.. (again there is so many other things) but I agree, that many would benefit from the doping, but not as much as a athlet doing endurance sport or IE. Baseball speed/power actually makes a difference...

I would argue that a pro football player need more diversity in his talants than a Baseball player, but it ends up in a matter of opinion..

Atleast we agree about one thing, it does not matter what sport we talk about, all have PED in them ^^

No, no, Baseball is hardest i ever did. It´s all about technique there. Soccer/Football needs wayyy more endurance. And of course cycling/running is all about endurance. But at the end, the best of the best dope/cheat "each other out", no matter which sport. There is no difference at all. Cycling is as dirty as NFL, or soccer, or baseball. Only that cycling isn´t (yet) spoiled as much as the other "sports", who are there for entertainment only, plus attracting all the manipulations of gambling syndicates, TV-Money, etc.

 

[Ney the Viking]

Actually regarding yesterdays game, the speed really went down as the game progressed, and everyone looked really tired in the overtime. Compared to say a game in Champions League or a Barcelona vs Madrid game, the players really seemed to get slower a lot faster in the EC. But regular season is over, maybe team sponsered products is gone [/conspiray theory]

 

[sniper]

Actually regarding yesterdays game, the speed really went down as the game progressed, and everyone looked really tired in the overtime. Compared to say a game in Champions League or a Barcelona vs Madrid game, the players really seemed to get slower a lot faster in the EC. But regular season is over, maybe team sponsered products is gone [/conspiray theory]

in fact, I've been making the same observation and came up with the same conspiracy theory
it's all alot slower here than in the champions league.
still, however, spain was alot fitter in the overtime and they generally surprise me with their stamina.
probably better training facilities than the other teams.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

It has been claimed that Barca tried to hire Fuentes. Anyone got a source?