Doping in XC skiing

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Mar 4, 2013
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Armchaircyclist said:
Did any of you hear Sundby's claims about his lung capacity ? He claims that he has only 80% of an average untrained males ability to take up oxygen through the lungs..... http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/
And that's when he has not got asthma-problems...

After winning the tour in Canade and once again smashing all the competition, MJS complained to Aftonbladet that he had been so ill during the tour that he was close to being hospitalized, with very severe asthma.

Could you believe it? The Norwegian arrogance is through the roof.
 
May 29, 2011
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Instead of lung capacity, sundby's chest is filled with tiny parakeets apparently.

Stupid hubris from him.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Jacobsen seemed more likely to have a serious issue in the last stage. Almost came to a halt.

Are sports followers just believe that asthma is a discomfort you just need to push through on willpower?
Medicine needs to specify a unique form called Norwegian Asthma. It's a flip of the coin condition where you are either hospitalized or winning the Tour of Canada.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Discgear said:
Armchaircyclist said:
Did any of you hear Sundby's claims about his lung capacity ? He claims that he has only 80% of an average untrained males ability to take up oxygen through the lungs..... http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/
And that's when he has not got asthma-problems...

After winning the tour in Canade and once again smashing all the competition, MJS complained to Aftonbladet that he had been so ill during the tour that he was close to being hospitalized, with very severe asthma.

Could you believe it? The Norwegian arrogance is through the roof.
i knew of the sundby alleged lung capacity for a long time... addressed it in a racing thread some days back:
viewtopic.php?p=1876766#p1876766
....and lastly, b/c my nrk feed was sputtering today, i was occasionally switching to eurosport. what a horrible commentary the english-speaking audience had been exposed to ! the lady assistant certainly knew her stuff, but the man had been peppering his audience with a lot false or incorrect info... like 'what a remarkable lung capacity sundby possess'. this is just nonsense if one bothered to read the norwegian media in which mjs claimed to have a natural lung capacity equal 80% of a non athletic male his age
while quite arrogant of him to talk so much, it may be true for what we know.

i posted earlier why his mannerism and imperious attitude reminded me of the armstrong's arrogance. no wonder martin worshiped the super jerk.

not all norwegian elite xc-ers come across arrogant. i get good vibes for instance about iversen, roethe, jespersen....the irritating part seems the lack of reflection in some like sundby. he talks and behaves like the old-fashioned sportsmanship is optional.

here's another examples. after the canadian tour, ustiogov told an interviewer that before one race, ustiugov found martin's ski poles in his box. startled somewhat, he decided to transfer them to the still empty petter's box. then he walk away meeting martin along the way. he said martin had a smirky smile...ustiugov decided to observe what will happen next. he saw petter walking to his box and getting a wtf reaction seeing someone's poles. sundby walked up to petter, they talked about something, smiled and sundby retired with his poles..

regarding the lung capacity vs the vo2 max. these are 2 completely different things. a lung capacity is measured by a spirometer - a very simple device one blows into as hard and as long as possible while NOT performing any physical activity. the forced out air is metered in liters and considered the volume vacated by one's lungs. for instance, during my competitive years, i was regularly blowing 170-180% the average capacity of the healthy males my age. btw, there are world class endurance athletes with one lung. this is possible b/c human lungs, like our kidneys are of redundant (that is 100% x2) design. o

the vo2 max. otoh, is also measured in liters, but liter/min (absolute Vo2) or liters/min/kg (normalized to weight). it is measured by a gas analyzer calibrated for oxygen and CO2. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen (not air) that one's body can utilize (exchanged in the lungs, carried by the red blood cells and extracted by working muscles to produce aerobic energy) during a maximum exertion.

i simplified it, but hope it helped.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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python said:
regarding the lung capacity vs the vo2 max. these are 2 completely different things. a lung capacity is measured by a spirometer - a very simple device one blows into as hard and as long as possible while NOT performing any physical activity. the forced out air is metered in liters and considered the volume vacated by one's lungs. for instance, during my competitive years, i was regularly blowing 170-180% the average capacity of the healthy males my age. btw, there are world class endurance athletes with one lung. this is possible b/c human lungs, like our kidneys are of redundant (that is 100% x2) design. o

the vo2 max. otoh, is also measured in liters, but liter/min (absolute Vo2) or liters/min/kg (normalized to weight). it is measured by a gas analyzer calibrated for oxygen and CO2. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen (not air) that one's body can utilize (exchanged in the lungs, carried by the red blood cells and extracted by working muscles to produce aerobic energy) during a maximum exertion.

i simplified it, but hope it helped.
Nobody even talked about lung capacity vs. VO2 max. So no, it wasn't much helpful.

Anyway, since it's there, as far as I know one lung never reaches capacity of two lungs, so x2 is not right.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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as usual, unless the talk is about the czechs, the blinds are on. read the thread from a wider angle before making the ignorant statements. cloxxi's questions are perhaps too much to read for a narrow world view of some. and yes, you don't know much b/c your world is too small.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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python said:
as usual, unless the talk is about the czechs, the blinds are on. read the thread from a wider angle before making the ignorant statements. cloxxi's questions are perhaps too much to read for a narrow world view of some. and yes, you don't know much b/c your world is too small.
I'm sorry I missed it.

I am most and am most interested abou Czech athletes, so sorry for that.

At least we have someone to talk about narrow view of world here and some patriotism.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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So what is the deal with Sundby's claims? Small lungs, but he gets the job done with them somehow? Does he have a higher breathing rate or can he get the normal (what, 2L?) per in/exhale of a top athlete from his maybe 4L in stead of 5L typical lung size?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Re: Re:

python said:
Discgear said:
Armchaircyclist said:
Did any of you hear Sundby's claims about his lung capacity ? He claims that he has only 80% of an average untrained males ability to take up oxygen through the lungs..... http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/sundby-om-astma-problemene-markant-handikap/a/23600686/
And that's when he has not got asthma-problems...

After winning the tour in Canade and once again smashing all the competition, MJS complained to Aftonbladet that he had been so ill during the tour that he was close to being hospitalized, with very severe asthma.

Could you believe it? The Norwegian arrogance is through the roof.
i knew of the sundby alleged lung capacity for a long time... addressed it in a racing thread some days back:
viewtopic.php?p=1876766#p1876766

regarding the lung capacity vs the vo2 max. these are 2 completely different things. a lung capacity is measured by a spirometer - a very simple device one blows into as hard and as long as possible while NOT performing any physical activity. the forced out air is metered in liters and considered the volume vacated by one's lungs. for instance, during my competitive years, i was regularly blowing 170-180% the average capacity of the healthy males my age. btw, there are world class endurance athletes with one lung. this is possible b/c human lungs, like our kidneys are of redundant (that is 100% x2) design. o

the vo2 max. otoh, is also measured in liters, but liter/min (absolute Vo2) or liters/min/kg (normalized to weight). it is measured by a gas analyzer calibrated for oxygen and CO2. VO2 max is the amount of oxygen (not air) that one's body can utilize (exchanged in the lungs, carried by the red blood cells and extracted by working muscles to produce aerobic energy) during a maximum exertion.

i simplified it, but hope it helped.

Thank's for the lecture. :) However, we are talking about a media trained person. Not only skier but also a representative of his sport, his country, different brands, and lastly businessmen himself. Also very well initiated in the risks, gains and taboos around doping, not at least how delicate the subject is in the communication with media and how it lands among the public and business partners.

I find it truly amazing that MJS claims he was so sick and experienced such severe asthma during Tour de Canada that he was on the verge of being hospitalized. How is that perceived by fellow athletes that once again being smashed by MJS:s unlimited stamina? I do agree that He is very Armstronesque. :(
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Another hard core doper who could not get on the top results sheet filled with cleans.
I read some references to a life time ban for Johannes Duerr. Did I miss/forget something? His German language wiki entry mentions 2 years, various articles just loosely mention a life time ban.
 
Sep 7, 2014
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Cloxxki said:
Another hard core doper who could not get on the top results sheet filled with cleans.
I read some references to a life time ban for Johannes Duerr. Did I miss/forget something? His German language wiki entry mentions 2 years, various articles just loosely mention a life time ban.

His ban is over and he just started to compete again in some small races.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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frenchfry said:
http://www.ski-nordique.net/nouveau-cas-de-dopage-en-biathlon.5860148-72348.html

A positive in biathlon. Name to follow...


Hoping for Bjoerndalen, but probably a Russian or Ukrainian.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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i hope bjørndalen does not overdo his stay and apparently his good health and fortune.

shyt does happen sometimes when everyone thinks that this or that dinosaur appears to have cheated the clock . ask armstrong or jeannie longo.

to be fair to oeb, he's different, more personable and has a better alibi.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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python said:
i hope bjørndalen does not overdo his stay and apparently his good health and fortune.

shyt does happen sometimes when everyone thinks that this or that dinosaur appears to have cheated the clock . ask armstrong or jeannie longo.

to be fair to oeb, he's different, more personable and has a better alibi.

I was thinking the same thing when I heard he is going to stick around. Hopefully he gets exposed, but I doubt it will happen. He's too much of a winter sports star. Too big to fail.
 
Feb 19, 2013
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That's just devastating. I lose my fave girl from the circuit for another season and have the endure the geriatric atrocity exhibition for two more years
 
Jun 22, 2010
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antonshipulin said:
That's just devastating. I lose my fave girl from the circuit for another season and have the endure the geriatric atrocity exhibition for two more years

Who would have thought that those two would hook up. I called before Oslo this year and I'll call it a year and two years ahead now. Next year and in South Korea, Bjoerndalen will rack up more medals. He'll race sparingly, again, picking and choosing where he'll race, he'll disappear in his multi-million dollar camper van somewhere in the central European mountains, will more than likely get sick a couple times, and then he'll miraculously turn in top 10 ski times accompanied by his solid shooting and get medals. In the meantime, elsewhere, there will be a few more Russian positives and we'll rave how WADA is doing a splendid job of catching Russian cheats.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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IBU provisionally suspended Ms. Olga Abramova, UKR and Mr. Artem Tyshchenko UKR in February 2016; IBU-collected urine samples for both athletes detected the presence of Meldonium. The substance was added to the WADA prohibited list in January, 2016; it belongs to group S4: Hormone and Metabolic Modulators.

At the hearing, held March, 30 2016 the matter of how long it may take for Meldonium to be excreted from the body was essential, as the results of a pilot study conducted by the expert called by the Panel contradicted the present state of literature on Meldonium.

Therefore, IBU and both athletes, by common agreement, requested, first, to suspend the proceedings until a study which was called a WADA-study will be available and second, that the parties will be given the opportunity to comment on the results of the study. According to the information available at the hearing the results of the study are expected for no later than September 2016.
Nice. So in September, after Summer OG, those 2 Ukrainian (= not Russian) will be released.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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Olga Abramova is Russian though, she's one of the multitude of Russian women who've switched nationalities to compete for Ukraine or Belarus. I think Belarus could feasibly enter a World Cup relay solely comprising such athletes and not be too uncompetitive.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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the 1st mildronium case in the sport of xc skiing.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ski-russian-vichuzhanin-positive-meldonium-174308207.html

of course, it is a ...ruzs-ski. a promising world class junior and an u23 at his time.

one has to wonder what the fork is going on &#63

either those busted many-many months after the crap was added to the banned list are endlessly stupid (a possibility), or there is something in the crap that wada has not addressed adequately before rushing to ban mildonium.

like 'how long does the shyt stay in the body'. a basic scientific question.

sounds like the wada has no forking idea if the ukrainian biathlon mildronium cases postponement by the ubi are to be taken at face (not political !) value.