Doping in XC skiing

[sida_mot]

That is well established already...

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

No, he did not. He was shown the picture of the package with doping sign on a reporter's mobile phone at the end of the press conference, and asked if he didn't see that sign. He looked at it for some seconds, zoomed in on the phone, then answered he could not remember having seen such a sign. Then somebody else answered, it must first be established if this was the same type of box.[/quote]




Believe it or not, there are other medias than Norwegian local ones. Finnish newspaper called him on the same evening as the official press conference and in the call he firmly stopped the interviewer and said there were no doping sign in the box. Funny that his response actually changed dramatically from "I'm not sure" to "definitely not" in couple of hours.

Here's the article, I'm sure you know how to use translator.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001929602.html

 

[Discgear]

Re: Re:

* Today we also learn that both Løfshus and the other skiers have planned to find ways to train with Therese during her suspension, another violation of the WADA-code. They think if they do it during their spare time it will be okay. Poor Therese, yes they never use her family name, just Therese.

Bjørgen and Østberg both said they intend to train with Johaug, but they both also clearly stated "if it's within the rules with respect to ADNO". So that's totally a non-issue you managed to construct.

Well, that was my point wasn't it? During a suspension, the athlete is not allowed to train with the team according to the WADA regulations. Now, both the skiers and the leaders, are in public discussing how to find a loophole for poor Therese being able to train with her friends during the suspension. Another gray area. After all, in Norwegian elite XC-skiing, we are are like a family.

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

i really can not believe that there are people justifying a professional medic's negligence - or more accurately the due diligence - when caring for their patience health...
.....
i am growing now in the opinion that she should get an absolute max to cool some norwegian arrogance.

I'm in no way justifying any negligence. My argumentation goes solely on the purpose of analysing what is human natural and/or possible behaviour. That is to understand the most central question, if their testimonies are true or lies.

Trying to mix opinions on behaviour at the same time you're analysing if the behaviour is factual only calls for subjective rants or glorification. Both being simply waste of space.

So what you are more or less saying is that in case there is even slight (let's say 5%) possibility i.e. that he did not look the box properly, then everyone needs to believe the story and Therese should not be convicted?

I don't know where you take this from. Are you not able to discuss an element separately from the whole?

 

[Tubeless]

Today we also learn that both Løfshus and the other skiers have planned to find ways to train with Therese during her suspension, another violation of the WADA-code. They think if they do it during their spare time it will be okay. Poor Therese, yes they never use her family name, just Therese.

The WADA code is very clear on this - and has a clarifying comment allowing an exception only for team sports where the athlete cannot effectively train on her own:

Athlete may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member organization during the shorter of: (1) the last two months of the Athlete’s period of Ineligibility, or (2) the last one-quarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.

The penalty for violating the rule is pretty severe:

Where an Athlete ... who has been declared Ineligible violates the prohibition against participation during Ineligibility described in Article 10.12.1, ... a new period of Ineligibility equal in length to the original period of Ineligibility shall be added to the end of the original period of Ineligibility.

Her team mates could also face a sanction of their own:

Where an Athlete Support Person or other Person assists a Person in violating the prohibition against participation during Ineligibility, an Anti-Doping Organization with jurisdiction ... shall impose sanctions for a violation of Article 2.9 for such assistance.

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

* Today we also learn that both Løfshus and the other skiers have planned to find ways to train with Therese during her suspension, another violation of the WADA-code. They think if they do it during their spare time it will be okay. Poor Therese, yes they never use her family name, just Therese.

Bjørgen and Østberg both said they intend to train with Johaug, but they both also clearly stated "if it's within the rules with respect to ADNO". So that's totally a non-issue you managed to construct.

Well, that was my point wasn't it? During a suspension, the athlete is not allowed to train with the team according to the WADA regulations. Now, both the skiers and the leaders, are in public discussing how to find a loophole for poor Therese being able to train with her friends during the suspension. Another gray area. After all, in Norwegian elite XC-skiing, we are are like a family.

There are two individuals in a situation of personal crisis. They are strong on expressing their human support to both Therese, despite her legal situation, and to Bendiksen, despite being the sole responsible for this terrible outcome. It is indeed a strong family yes, and with one of the girls losing her brother in a suicide just before the Sochi games, they know very well the importance of taking care of each other. And they don't hide it. How this may look from the outside is of rather secondary importance.

Not everything they say makes news articles.. But of course, none of this matters if they're all a bunch of liars.

 

[BullsFan22]

Today we also learn that both Løfshus and the other skiers have planned to find ways to train with Therese during her suspension, another violation of the WADA-code. They think if they do it during their spare time it will be okay. Poor Therese, yes they never use her family name, just Therese.

The WADA code is very clear on this - and has a clarifying comment allowing an exception only for team sports where the athlete cannot effectively train on her own:

Athlete may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member organization during the shorter of: (1) the last two months of the Athlete’s period of Ineligibility, or (2) the last one-quarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.

The penalty for violating the rule is pretty severe:

Where an Athlete ... who has been declared Ineligible violates the prohibition against participation during Ineligibility described in Article 10.12.1, ... a new period of Ineligibility equal in length to the original period of Ineligibility shall be added to the end of the original period of Ineligibility.

Her team mates could also face a sanction of their own:

Where an Athlete Support Person or other Person assists a Person in violating the prohibition against participation during Ineligibility, an Anti-Doping Organization with jurisdiction ... shall impose sanctions for a violation of Article 2.9 for such assistance.

That seems extremely bureaucratic and strict. I am all for suspensions, but not training with your team or club??

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

Believe it or not, there are other medias than Norwegian local ones. Finnish newspaper called him on the same evening as the official press conference and in the call he firmly stopped the interviewer and said there were no doping sign in the box. Funny that his response actually changed dramatically from "I'm not sure" to "definitely not" in couple of hours.

Here's the article, I'm sure you know how to use translator.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001929602.html

Do you read Finnish..? Careful so you don't make a Bendiksen..

Look. It's impossible to remember if you weeks back looked on the back of a box or not. The only thing you remember is if you saw the warning or not. Obviously, that's neither a positive memory, but a negative, from knowing you didn't react.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Believe it or not, there are other medias than Norwegian local ones. Finnish newspaper called him on the same evening as the official press conference and in the call he firmly stopped the interviewer and said there were no doping sign in the box. Funny that his response actually changed dramatically from "I'm not sure" to "definitely not" in couple of hours.

Here's the article, I'm sure you know how to use translator.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001929602.html

Do you read Finnish..? Careful so you don't make a Bendiksen..

Look. It's impossible to remember if you weeks back looked on the back of a box or not. The only thing you remember is if you saw the warning or not. Obviously, that's neither a positive memory, but a negative, from knowing you didn't react.

Yes I do, do I sense Norwegian hypocrism getting into surface there?

For the record, I don't believe a second that official truth ever comes into surface in case of doping.

I.e. the official expalantion of finns using Hemohes on 2001 just to fluid is to me complete bs. They for sure were masking the use of EPO although it wasn't proved. I don't look these based on athletes nationality or if I like him/her or not, I'm looking it purely from how the fact of if the explanation is something that should be believed or not and whether it breakes the rules or not. Therese has broke the rules and should be punished for it according to rules, period. As was the finns which I regard as good thing for the sports.

Something similar with these 2 cases btw. The finns thought Hemohes would not show in the test until the *** hit the fan. I'm quite sure the biggest mistake of mr Bendiksen was that he hadn't realize the existens of new test that would show the use of the steroid up to 30 days after usage. All other mistakes publically announced sounds only to be cover.

 

[Blaaswix]

Re: Re:

So you expect, after flipping medicine boxes for 30+ years, not finding anything, he's still gonna keep flipping it, despite having all the information he is looking for in big letters on the front? Very realistic..

Yes, because A: it's a doctor's job, and B: Trofodermin is not in the Norwegian pharmacopeia .

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

Believe it or not, there are other medias than Norwegian local ones. Finnish newspaper called him on the same evening as the official press conference and in the call he firmly stopped the interviewer and said there were no doping sign in the box. Funny that his response actually changed dramatically from "I'm not sure" to "definitely not" in couple of hours.

Here's the article, I'm sure you know how to use translator.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001929602.html

Do you read Finnish..? Careful so you don't make a Bendiksen..

Look. It's impossible to remember if you weeks back looked on the back of a box or not. The only thing you remember is if you saw the warning or not. Obviously, that's neither a positive memory, but a negative, from knowing you didn't react.

Yes I do, do I sense Norwegian hypocrism getting into surface there?

For the record, I don't believe a second that official truth ever comes into surface in case of doping.

I.e. the official expalantion of finns using Hemohes on 2001 just to fluid is to me complete bs. They for sure were masking the use of EPO although it wasn't proved. I don't look these based on athletes nationality or if I like him/her or not, I'm looking it purely from how the fact of if the explanation is something that should be believed or not and whether it breakes the rules or not. Therese has broke the rules and should be punished for it according to rules, period. As was the finns which I regard as good thing for the sports.

Something similar with these 2 cases btw. The finns thought Hemohes would not show in the test until the **** hit the fan. I'm quite sure the biggest mistake of mr Bendiksen was that he hadn't realize the existens of new test that would show the use of the steroid up to 30 days after usage. All other mistakes publically announced sounds only to be cover.

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Believe it or not, there are other medias than Norwegian local ones. Finnish newspaper called him on the same evening as the official press conference and in the call he firmly stopped the interviewer and said there were no doping sign in the box. Funny that his response actually changed dramatically from "I'm not sure" to "definitely not" in couple of hours.

Here's the article, I'm sure you know how to use translator.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/maastohiihto/art-2000001929602.html

Do you read Finnish..? Careful so you don't make a Bendiksen..

Look. It's impossible to remember if you weeks back looked on the back of a box or not. The only thing you remember is if you saw the warning or not. Obviously, that's neither a positive memory, but a negative, from knowing you didn't react.

Yes I do, do I sense Norwegian hypocrism getting into surface there?

For the record, I don't believe a second that official truth ever comes into surface in case of doping.

I.e. the official expalantion of finns using Hemohes on 2001 just to fluid is to me complete bs. They for sure were masking the use of EPO although it wasn't proved. I don't look these based on athletes nationality or if I like him/her or not, I'm looking it purely from how the fact of if the explanation is something that should be believed or not and whether it breakes the rules or not. Therese has broke the rules and should be punished for it according to rules, period. As was the finns which I regard as good thing for the sports.

Something similar with these 2 cases btw. The finns thought Hemohes would not show in the test until the **** hit the fan. I'm quite sure the biggest mistake of mr Bendiksen was that he hadn't realize the existens of new test that would show the use of the steroid up to 30 days after usage. All other mistakes publically announced sounds only to be cover.

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

Yes, because that only plays to a pocket of "mistake". They bank exactly to your fact that no-one believes they are intentionally so stupid to add banned stuff to the list.

 

[Discgear]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

For the third time:
First, we must trust the press-conference that Johaug did write Trofodermin on a medicine list before the test. I can't recall that ADN have acknowledged this. Secondly, are you aware that there are two different versions on the market of Trofodermin? One with the steroid Clostebol (the one that was showed in the press conference) and one with Clobetasol (http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/composition-ingredients) which is a glucocorticoid and perfectly legal for external use.
This makes Trofodermin the perfect scape-goat, every scenario covered.

 

[Tubeless]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

This has already been debunked earlier, but keeps coming back:

The more sensitive analysis for Clostebol became available just in 2016. Listing the "innocent explanation" drug on the doping test form fits the theory where the good Dr believed that this steroid would not show up in a test after a few days - as had been the case with Johaug (and possibly other skiers) before. Not having a cover-story and testing positive would mean an automatic 4-year suspension. It was an insurance policy which the Dr trusted should have never been needed.

You're also assuming the doping testers will choose the method of testing based on what's written on the form. Very unlikely to be the case - a clever doper could list medications she's not taking to lead the lab in all sorts of wrong directions. More likely, the list of medications the athlete claims to be taking is only looked at if the test comes back positive.

 

[Discgear]

Today’s read http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/vg-har-snakket-med-13-loepere-paa-langrennslandslaget-syv-av-dem-har-astma-minst-9-bruker-forstoeverapparat/a/23830058/

Kvinnelandslaget (Norway, female XC-team):

Kari Øyre Slind
Astma: Nei. (Asthma: No)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Nei. (Use of Nebulizer: No)

Maiken Caspersen Falla
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. I trening og konkurranse. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, in traing and in competition)

Astrid Uhrenholdt Jacobsen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Hvordan jeg behandler min astma er en sak mellom meg og helseteamet. (Use of Nebulizer: How I treat my asthma is between me and my doctor)

Ragnhild Haga
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Ingvild Flugstad Østberg
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Marit Bjørgen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja, har brukt saltvann på forstøverapparat. Bruker astmamedisin bare på spray. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, with salt water. Asthma medication just with spray)

* Therese Johaug og Heidi Weng - ikke snakket med. (We haven’t talked to Johaug and Weng)

But we know from this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/langrennsjentene-reagerer-kraftig-pa-dopingmistanker-1.13121394 that Heidi Weng has astma and that Johaug hasn’t. But that Johaug is treated with asthma medication at times.
So Kari Øyre Slind is the only one that neither has asthma nor is treated with asthma medication. On the other hand she did her first season last year and only a few races.

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

For the third time:
First, we must trust the press-conference that Johaug did write Trofodermin on a medicine list before the test. I can't recall that ADN have acknowledged this. Secondly, are you aware that there are two different versions on the market of Trofodermin? One with the steroid Clostebol (the one that was showed in the press conference) and one with Clobetasol (http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/composition-ingredients) which is a glucocorticoid and perfectly legal for external use.
This makes Trofodermin the perfect scape-goat, every scenario covered.

This drug isn't even in production. It has been, in India. It's certainly not in sale in Italy, Norway, or anywhere related to this case.

 

[Discgear]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

For the third time:
First, we must trust the press-conference that Johaug did write Trofodermin on a medicine list before the test. I can't recall that ADN have acknowledged this. Secondly, are you aware that there are two different versions on the market of Trofodermin? One with the steroid Clostebol (the one that was showed in the press conference) and one with Clobetasol (http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/composition-ingredients) which is a glucocorticoid and perfectly legal for external use.
This makes Trofodermin the perfect scape-goat, every scenario covered.

This drug isn't even in production. It has been, in India. It's certainly not in sale in Italy, Norway, or anywhere related to this case.

If you believe in the official story, I understand you do have a problem with this. However, if you as I have problems with digesting the official story then you could suspect that the doctor is somehow involved in a cover up.
Now I'm speculating: Having had a top position within Pfizer, you would assume that he could get hold of the "India" version. And, I guess that version would have been in Johaugs possess as a backup, ever since she started to build with a little help from Clostebol.

Johaug made considerable progress last two years in building muscles. Last season, she even poled away from skiers that easily left her behind on flat ground the year before.

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

For the third time:
First, we must trust the press-conference that Johaug did write Trofodermin on a medicine list before the test. I can't recall that ADN have acknowledged this. Secondly, are you aware that there are two different versions on the market of Trofodermin? One with the steroid Clostebol (the one that was showed in the press conference) and one with Clobetasol (http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/composition-ingredients) which is a glucocorticoid and perfectly legal for external use.
This makes Trofodermin the perfect scape-goat, every scenario covered.

This drug isn't even in production. It has been, in India. It's certainly not in sale in Italy, Norway, or anywhere related to this case.

If you believe in the official story, I understand you do have a problem with this. However, if you as I have problems with digesting the official story then you could suspect that the doctor is somehow involved in a cover up.
Now I'm speculating: Having had a top position within Pfizer, you would assume that he could get hold of the "India" version. And, I guess that version would have been in Johaugs possess as a backup, ever since she started to build with a little help from Clostebol.

Johaug made considerable progress last two years in building muscles. Last season, she even poled away from skiers that easily left her behind on flat ground the year before.

The drug you have found in that list, clearly some automatic search engine, was produced by Pharmacia & Upjohn, in India.
http://medimention.com/Medicines/view/trofodermin-skin-10-gm-75159
http://medimention.com/Details/view/pharmacia-upjohn

They merged with Pfizer in 2003
http://www.pfizer.com/about/history/pfizer_pharmacia

Which is why you only find these vague leftovers of automatic database-searches.
It's a drug, which has been out of production for more than 10 years.

It's good detective work. But please also acknowledge when something should be disregarded.

 

[Discgear]

Re:

i really can not believe that there are people justifying a professional medic's negligence - or more accurately the due diligence - when caring for their patience health...

so it was terra-cortril that dr. bendiksen was looing for ? ok. if so, i am assuming that's what therese would be using in norway as her regular remedy. ok. it was not available in the place he bought the other 2 creams. ok.

so, it took me 2 seconds to find other 3 pharmacies in livigno and about 20 pharmacies in the immediate vicinity towns (1/2h drive). all with their addresses and phone nos. to assume that none of them would have a cream the good doc was looking for would be beyond stupid.

then again, the doc may hate smart phones with internet;
or the internet, you know, does not always work in the mountains;
or, we should know, not everyone speaks norwegian in italy;
or, c'mon, show some respect for an old man in need of some rest after overflying europe...

etc etc. anything to pile gross negligence on sloppiness and multiply by stupidity to get the little therese off the hook.

i am growing now in the opinion that she should get an absolute max to cool some norwegian arrogance.

I wonder what could possible cool down the arrogance. This article was just published in dagbladet.no:
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/anklaget-og-hengt-ut-av-finsk-konkurrent-na-slar-sundby-tilbake/64029452

I have to warn all sensitive readers.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Today’s read http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/vg-har-snakket-med-13-loepere-paa-langrennslandslaget-syv-av-dem-har-astma-minst-9-bruker-forstoeverapparat/a/23830058/

Kvinnelandslaget (Norway, female XC-team):

Kari Øyre Slind
Astma: Nei. (Asthma: No)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Nei. (Use of Nebulizer: No)

Maiken Caspersen Falla
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. I trening og konkurranse. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, in traing and in competition)

Astrid Uhrenholdt Jacobsen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Hvordan jeg behandler min astma er en sak mellom meg og helseteamet. (Use of Nebulizer: How I treat my asthma is between me and my doctor)

Ragnhild Haga
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Ingvild Flugstad Østberg
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Marit Bjørgen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja, har brukt saltvann på forstøverapparat. Bruker astmamedisin bare på spray. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, with salt water. Asthma medication just with spray)

* Therese Johaug og Heidi Weng - ikke snakket med. (We haven’t talked to Johaug and Weng)

But we know from this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/langrennsjentene-reagerer-kraftig-pa-dopingmistanker-1.13121394 that Heidi Weng has astma and that Johaug hasn’t. But that Johaug is treated with asthma medication at times.
So Kari Øyre Slind is the only one that neither has asthma nor is treated with asthma medication. On the other hand she did her first season last year and only a few races.

I know that's only a few skiers, but goodness me, Kowalzcyk's questioning of 'how do so many/why do so many Norwegians have asthma where the air is so clean?' has been spot on the money through the years, and good for her that she hasn't backed off.

Is this a case of people ACTUALLY having asthma or is it skiers 'testing' for 'symptoms' of asthma, as in, they somehow have asthma symptoms...but not really?

I'd also like to see this stat from ALL national teams, from Norway, to Sweden to Finland to Russia to Germany....all the way down to the smaller nations who have national teams but don't race at the WC as much but compete in sanctioned FIS races throughout the winter.

I'd like to compare those stats with the Norwegians. We've heard that some Swedes have asthma, Legkov and Chernousov do (apparently), Manificat was outspoken about asthma meds, but apparently he takes them even though he doesn't have one (according to a recent NRK article...). This is all interesting to me.

It's just stunning to me that so many current and former Norwegian national team skiers have 'suffered' from asthma yet here they are dominating the sport. Last year at the Lillehammer relay, the women won by what, 2 minutes? The men swept the top 3 spots...1...2....3. When I see B or C team level skiers beating seasoned WC skiers from other countries it just makes it look like a comedy. Do all those skiers that are on the national quota for the Norwegian WC's also on asthma meds?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Today’s read http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/vg-har-snakket-med-13-loepere-paa-langrennslandslaget-syv-av-dem-har-astma-minst-9-bruker-forstoeverapparat/a/23830058/

Kvinnelandslaget (Norway, female XC-team):

Kari Øyre Slind
Astma: Nei. (Asthma: No)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Nei. (Use of Nebulizer: No)

Maiken Caspersen Falla
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. I trening og konkurranse. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, in traing and in competition)

Astrid Uhrenholdt Jacobsen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Hvordan jeg behandler min astma er en sak mellom meg og helseteamet. (Use of Nebulizer: How I treat my asthma is between me and my doctor)

Ragnhild Haga
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Ingvild Flugstad Østberg
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Marit Bjørgen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja, har brukt saltvann på forstøverapparat. Bruker astmamedisin bare på spray. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, with salt water. Asthma medication just with spray)

* Therese Johaug og Heidi Weng - ikke snakket med. (We haven’t talked to Johaug and Weng)

But we know from this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/langrennsjentene-reagerer-kraftig-pa-dopingmistanker-1.13121394 that Heidi Weng has astma and that Johaug hasn’t. But that Johaug is treated with asthma medication at times.
So Kari Øyre Slind is the only one that neither has asthma nor is treated with asthma medication. On the other hand she did her first season last year and only a few races.

So I read the entire article, with all the athletes that were interviewed.

The women you covered, and somehow all of the ones (except Slind, like you mentioned) have asthma and are taking meds!!

The men are mixed. Sundby we obviously know, but some of the other ones that don't have asthma that are taking the meds??? Is that doping or 'legal' doping?

 

[Discgear]

Re: Re:

And she filed in the Trofodermin use because they thought it wouldn't show up on the test, and had to tip them off how to chose a more specific analysis?

For the third time:
First, we must trust the press-conference that Johaug did write Trofodermin on a medicine list before the test. I can't recall that ADN have acknowledged this. Secondly, are you aware that there are two different versions on the market of Trofodermin? One with the steroid Clostebol (the one that was showed in the press conference) and one with Clobetasol (http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/composition-ingredients) which is a glucocorticoid and perfectly legal for external use.
This makes Trofodermin the perfect scape-goat, every scenario covered.

This drug isn't even in production. It has been, in India. It's certainly not in sale in Italy, Norway, or anywhere related to this case.

If you believe in the official story, I understand you do have a problem with this. However, if you as I have problems with digesting the official story then you could suspect that the doctor is somehow involved in a cover up.
Now I'm speculating: Having had a top position within Pfizer, you would assume that he could get hold of the "India" version. And, I guess that version would have been in Johaugs possess as a backup, ever since she started to build with a little help from Clostebol.

Johaug made considerable progress last two years in building muscles. Last season, she even poled away from skiers that easily left her behind on flat ground the year before.

The drug you have found in that list, clearly some automatic search engine, was produced by Pharmacia & Upjohn, in India.
http://medimention.com/Medicines/view/trofodermin-skin-10-gm-75159
http://medimention.com/Details/view/pharmacia-upjohn

They merged with Pfizer in 2003
http://www.pfizer.com/about/history/pfizer_pharmacia

Which is why you only find these vague leftovers of automatic database-searches.
It's a drug, which has been out of production for more than 10 years.

It's good detective work. But please also acknowledge when something should be disregarded.

Well Bendiksen worked for Pfizer 1995-2003 so its within that period. Even if the Indian version isn't available anymore (information to verify this?) there's a couple of scenarios how Bendiksen could use the India version for a cover up.

 

[dukoff]

Re: Re:

The drug you have found in that list, clearly some automatic search engine, was produced by Pharmacia & Upjohn, in India.
http://medimention.com/Medicines/view/trofodermin-skin-10-gm-75159
http://medimention.com/Details/view/pharmacia-upjohn

They merged with Pfizer in 2003
http://www.pfizer.com/about/history/pfizer_pharmacia

Which is why you only find these vague leftovers of automatic database-searches.
It's a drug, which has been out of production for more than 10 years.

It's good detective work. But please also acknowledge when something should be disregarded.

Well Bendiksen worked for Pfizer 1995-2003 so its within that period. Even if the Indian version isn't available anymore (information to verify this?) there's a couple of scenarios how Bendiksen could use the India version for a cover up.

Right, you post no evidence for your claim to hold water, and ask me to verify what I've already proven.. Very masculine. Let's leave it there then.

 

[python]

Re:

Today’s read http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/martin-johnsrud-sundby/vg-har-snakket-med-13-loepere-paa-langrennslandslaget-syv-av-dem-har-astma-minst-9-bruker-forstoeverapparat/a/23830058/

Kvinnelandslaget (Norway, female XC-team):

Kari Øyre Slind
Astma: Nei. (Asthma: No)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Nei. (Use of Nebulizer: No)

Maiken Caspersen Falla
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. I trening og konkurranse. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, in traing and in competition)

Astrid Uhrenholdt Jacobsen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Hvordan jeg behandler min astma er en sak mellom meg og helseteamet. (Use of Nebulizer: How I treat my asthma is between me and my doctor)

Ragnhild Haga
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Ingvild Flugstad Østberg
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes)

Marit Bjørgen
Astma: Ja. (Asthma: Yes)
Bruker forstøverapparat: Ja, har brukt saltvann på forstøverapparat. Bruker astmamedisin bare på spray. (Use of Nebulizer: Yes, with salt water. Asthma medication just with spray)

* Therese Johaug og Heidi Weng - ikke snakket med. (We haven’t talked to Johaug and Weng)

But we know from this article https://www.nrk.no/sport/langrennsjentene-reagerer-kraftig-pa-dopingmistanker-1.13121394 that Heidi Weng has astma and that Johaug hasn’t. But that Johaug is treated with asthma medication at times.
So Kari Øyre Slind is the only one that neither has asthma nor is treated with asthma medication. On the other hand she did her first season last year and only a few races.

everyone is focusing on astma, and we should after the sundby abuses, but virtually no one, at least the main stream media, payed any attention to another seriously cheating quality of the main asthma drug - the salbutamol.

it is explicitly listed inder the S5. Diuretics and Masking Agents

the use of diuretics is a rule of thumb to accompany the illicit steroids...having a tue for a diuretic is a ticket to another 'gray area' that's virtually ignored. i did raise the issue at least once before...

@bullfan
you can ignore the russians in the asthma stat. i posted earlier, if memory serves, they have a total of around 20 asthma tue satisfied applications for ALL (i mean ALL) olympic sports. for ex, btwn all their national teams (man, ladies, juniors u23..) the norges probably have about as much just in the xc skiing)

 

[Discgear]

Re: Re:

Right, you post no evidence for your claim to hold water, and ask me to verify what I've already proven.. Very masculine. Let's leave it there then.

Sorry, you haven't proven that the "Indian" version is still not available. You only have proved it was manufactured by Pharmacia Upjohn up to the merger with Pfizer in 2003. Which happens to be the same year when Bendiksen left Pfizer. In 2004 he was team doctor of the football team HamKam, when the first steroid doping scandal in Norway emerged when one of "his" player got caught.

Now speculation, in a try to live up to your prerequisites being masculine:

Bendiksen could have kept old drugs in his possession. I've met MDs with highly interesting coolers in their homes. If Bendiksen is a shady figure, theres hardly no scenarios that could be excluded.

But even if Bendiksen and Johaug were not aware of the "India" version it's really not significant for the cover up scenario. If they were worried that a postive on clostebol might come up in the test , the wise thing would be to wright down the drug Trofedormin beforehand of the test.