Doping in XC skiing

[meat puppet]

Johaug suspended for two months, ie until 18th December 2016, by Antidoping Norway: http://antidoping.no/om-antidoping-norge/nyheter/pressemelding-19-oktober-2016/

If memory serves, Sundby too got a two month suspension at the beginning.

 

[Cloxxki]

Well, except if there is an understanding between the Norwegia ski fed, Norwegian ADA, and the athletes. Not being tested for months is apparently NOT OK, since we have someone getting a very, VERY coincidental positive on an unlikely substance.
Can the Norwegian ADA, after earlier complaints from athletes, be considered doing their job sufficiently? These are Olympic superstars being largely ignored. In one of the very richest countries on Earth.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Johaug suspended for two months, ie until 18th December 2016, by Antidoping Norway: http://antidoping.no/om-antidoping-norge/nyheter/pressemelding-19-oktober-2016/

If memory serves, Sundby too got a two month suspension at the beginning.

Bit different than Sundby case, as this one to Johaug is temporary suspension until the full investigation is done. That 2 months might well change to longer ban, and if Norway's ADT does not give longer ban, FIS will take it to WADA and eventually to CAS for final decision. The saga is far from over, this is just pit stop.

Sundby's ultimate ban was 2 months in summer 2016 + he lost the victories of the two races after which he gave the positive result, which ultimately resulted him losing 2015 Tour de Ski and World Cup overall. But he never got suspended (even temporarily) after the actual positive test results.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.dn.se/sport/therese-johaug-avstangd-i-tva-manader/
Johaug gets two months suspension while investigation is done. Anti-Doping norway also investigate the doc.

 

[Discgear]

Re:

http://www.dn.se/sport/therese-johaug-avstangd-i-tva-manader/
Johaug gets two months suspension while investigation is done. Anti-Doping norway also investigate the doc.

The pressure on the Team Doctor is the key here. It will be truly interesting to see what unfolds.

 

[python]

it is a provisional suspension, which in most countries and federations would have been instant and automatic upon a failure of the A sample. provisional for 2 months or, the release said, until the prosecuting panel completes the case.

@meat
unlike johaug now, sundby NEVER received a provisional suspension. that was one of the ugliest moments of his case - he was making money and beating everyone while a secret of his violation of the antidoping rules never leaked. the 2 months suspension he received was a disciplinary suspension from cas or in the wada lingo, 'a period of ineligibility'.

re. the number of johaus'd tests...agree, in and of itself it is not a very strong evidence of anything, except if it was frequent (under a normal federation) it could indicate one was targeted due to being suspected. the lack of frequency could be indicative of either sloppiness of fis/adno or no testing funds left or an obsession with the russians or, indeed lack of a suspicion.

her case boils down to only 2 plausible options, imo. either it was indeed a mistake as phenomenal as it seems given the doctor role OR it was a sophisticated doping scheme where cream was either an intentional doping agent or a cover pulled out in the last moment when things came down crushing.

 

[meat puppet]

Python, bambino: thanks for the correction, should have been more careful with the distinction between provisional & disciplinary but typing in a haste sometimes leaves things ambiguous.

 

[kosmonaut]

It has been quite well known that Anti Doping Norge (ADNO) hasn't had great funding, explained by Mads Drange in his excellent book 'Den Store Dopingbløffen'. I checked now, and the numbers from 2015 and back are: 40 MNOK (4,46 million Euros), 41, 31, 29, 29.

Anyway, I agree that it's ridiculous to test every week during the season when people know they're getting tested (who are stupid enough to glow then?), when they get a nice long summer holiday without a single test of four months while doing all their pre-season hard work.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.dn.se/sport/norska-skidforbundet-forde-sponsor-bakom-ljuset/
http://www.tv2.no/sport/8667248/
NSF "forgot" to mention Sundby's "situation" when signing new sponsorship deal with Sparebank 1. Oops!

 

[Discgear]

Johaug - Bendiksen a time line

A time line according to official version.
Sources: http://www.tv2.no/a/8666662/ and http://www.vg.no/sport/johaug-tatt-i-doping/johaug-suspendert-i-to-maaneder-jeg-tar-dette-tungt/a/23824306/

Sunday 28th of August: Johaug calls Bendiksen from her camp in Livigno about her lip-problems. Bendiksen is in Norway.

Thursday 1st of September: Bendiksen travels to Italy and arrives just before midnight in ,but obviously did forget to bring the medication for Johaugs lips, or check if the needed medication is at the camp in Livigno. He had only three full days to do that before travel.

Friday 2nd of September: Bendiksen meets Johaug at breakfast. Together they find out that it's needed with a treatment of her lips but of course the medication he forgot to bring from Norway. So despite the acute pain that Johaug had - we heard about difficulties to sleap and eat - Bendiksen didn't go shopping until the next day. :surprised:

Saturday 3rd of September: In the morning Bendiksen goes out shopping two ointments. But not from the drug store - which he passes on the way - but to a health store. He has to ask over the counter to get Trofodermin which is not placed on the shelfs.
Same day Johaug starts to use the "legal" creme after asking Bendiksen it was not doping.

Sunday 4th of September: Since the first creme didn't work, Bendiksen hands over Trofodermin creme together with the package, the 30 gram product. The product is clearly marked doping and the text Clostebol. Neither the Team doctor with 30 years experience or Johaug suspects there's any problems with the product. One google search on Trofodermin will point to numerous pages with the text doping.

Thursday 15th of September: Johaug stops the Trofodermin treatment of her lips.

Friday 16th of September: She gets caught in an unannounced doping control.

Tuesday 4th of October: She's informed of the positive test

Wednesday 19th of October: She's banned two months during investigation before trial.

 

[python]

so, the therese doping case moved on. 1/2 a step, but in the right direction.

what does it mean and what to expect next ?

1st off, the fact that adno decided to proceed to a next stage is not a good news for therese. it means they simply could not find ANY tangible merits for dropping the case under the very clear wada article 2.0. it is as clear as day there was no way out and i am stunned it took almost a weak. not only the wada article 2.1 on what constitutes adrv is black on white, there is a huge file of the identical or similar cases including the cas decisions which every hearing panel studies first and formost ( i recall an article referring to at least 26 clostebol positives with the shortest vacation of 15 months).

so why they took so long ? answer: the adno was trying to built a non-existent case based on the wada allowance per the Article 10.5 which entertains if she was not at fault or significant fault.

here's a partial quote from a cas (Quigley v. UIT) decision that seems perfectly applicable to therese:

“It is true that a strict liability test is likely in some sense to be unfair in an individual case, such as that of Q., where the Athlete may have taken medication as the result of mislabeling or faulty advice for which he or she is not responsible - particularly in the circumstances of sudden illness in a foreign country. But it is also in some sense "unfair" for an Athlete to get food poisoning on the eve of an important competition. Yet in neither case will the rules of the competition be altered to undo the unfairness. Just as the competition will not be postponed to await the Athlete's recovery, so the prohibition of banned substances will not be lifted in recognition of its accidental absorption.

from the little we know it is 4 years.

it may be less if some new circumstances emerge. also, it will be to the norge advantage, unlike what they did in a sundby case, to work with wada. to remind, it is apparent from the cas award wada was livid they were not consulted or appraised of the norge interpretations of what an 'inhaled dose' means. hence the appeal and the 1sr ever norge doping case in the sport.

keep wada in the loop and therese may get 2 years. nothing less, imo.

 

[Tubeless]

The Johaug case sounds similar to the Contador Clenbuterol positive where new testing methodology was able to detect levels previously undetectable. As it was discussed on this forum, Contador likely received a blood transfusion during the 2nd rest day of 2010 Tour de France - blood taken a few weeks before the start of the tour. His own doctors would have tested the blood against any signs of the hormone, but did not have the new more sensitive testing equipment available at the Cologne laboratory where the samples were analyzed.

So perhaps the Norwegian doctors were caught unaware that Clostebol would still be detectable upon return back to Norway after “safe” use during the snow camp in Italy.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/clostebol-explained/

Until recently, this meant that the detection window was relatively small (despite oft-referenced online “detection times”). However, as of 2016, new technology has increased the detection window to at least 31 days.

 

[BullsFan22]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels. Of course, not forgetting the asthma meds for non-asthmatics and even those that suffer from asthma, they need to figure out how much was actually given, like Sundby, who was pumped up with nebulizers.

Of course now that the McLaren report comes out in the near future, this might be ignored.

 

[Lyon]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels.

Don't forget to include the early eighties. What did the swedes do back then that the Norwegians didn't? Why did the swedes so hastily abandon their own research into altitude training (only for the Norwegians to pick up the remains and reap the benefits)? Who from the Swedish camp deflected to the Norwegian one in the late 80's?

 

[Cycle Chic]

this thread looks good - wish I was a cross country skier

 

[BullsFan22]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels.

Don't forget to include the early eighties. What did the swedes do back then that the Norwegians didn't? Why did the swedes so hastily abandon their own research into altitude training (only for the Norwegians to pick up the remains and reap the benefits)? Who from the Swedish camp deflected to the Norwegian one in the late 80's?

Of course we can focus on the Swedes as well. It's actually amazing what Swedish sport was doing starting in the early 1970's and really early to mid 1990's. From Bjorn Borgs stamina, Ingemar Stenmark's dominance of alpine skiing, to the success of Malmö and Goteborg in European football, to Wilander, Edberg, Svan, Wassberg, an incredibly deep pool of skiers and tennis payers, etc...I always thought it was simply a golden era of Swedish sport. I don't know anymore...

 

[Discgear]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels.

Don't forget to include the early eighties. What did the swedes do back then that the Norwegians didn't? Why did the swedes so hastily abandon their own research into altitude training (only for the Norwegians to pick up the remains and reap the benefits)? Who from the Swedish camp deflected to the Norwegian one in the late 80's?

Of course we can focus on the Swedes as well. It's actually amazing what Swedish sport was doing starting in the early 1970's and really early to mid 1990's. From Bjorn Borgs stamina, Ingemar Stenmark's dominance of alpine skiing, to the success of Malmö and Goteborg in European football, to Wilander, Edberg, Svan, Wassberg, an incredibly deep pool of skiers and tennis payers, etc...I always thought it was simply a golden era of Swedish sport. I don't know anymore...

Then, if focusing on that era, don't forget table tennis, men's handball and icehockey. Failing though to see the relevance for a thread about doping in XC-skiing.

 

[Wigry3]

Look.. Trofodermin was administered on September 3rd and after 13 days (when she was tested) clostebol is still detectable ? But it has only 8hrs ( as far as I know) half-life and transdermal application isn't as effective as oral or injected one . So ... How much ointment did she use or how long has she used it ?

 

[bambino]

Look.. Trofodermin was administered on September 3rd and after 13 days (when she was tested) clostebol is still detectable ? But it has only 8hrs ( as far as I know) half-life and transdermal application isn't as effective as oral or injected one . So ... How much ointment did she use or how long has she used it ?

She claims she used it until 15th. The test was taken on 16th. Of course we can all believe it or not.

 

[Discgear]

Look.. Trofodermin was administered on September 3rd and after 13 days (when she was tested) clostebol is still detectable ? But it has only 8hrs ( as far as I know) half-life and transdermal application isn't as effective as oral or injected one . So ... How much ointment did she use or how long has she used it ?

Well according to Johaug version. She used Keroplastica one day and decided it didn't work. Then she changed to Trofodermin and used for 11 consecutive days, from 4th to 15th of September.

Edit: Sorry Bambino, you posted first.

 

[BullsFan22]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels.

Don't forget to include the early eighties. What did the swedes do back then that the Norwegians didn't? Why did the swedes so hastily abandon their own research into altitude training (only for the Norwegians to pick up the remains and reap the benefits)? Who from the Swedish camp deflected to the Norwegian one in the late 80's?

Of course we can focus on the Swedes as well. It's actually amazing what Swedish sport was doing starting in the early 1970's and really early to mid 1990's. From Bjorn Borgs stamina, Ingemar Stenmark's dominance of alpine skiing, to the success of Malmö and Goteborg in European football, to Wilander, Edberg, Svan, Wassberg, an incredibly deep pool of skiers and tennis payers, etc...I always thought it was simply a golden era of Swedish sport. I don't know anymore...

Then, if focusing on that era, don't forget table tennis, men's handball and icehockey. Failing though to see the relevance for a thread about doping in XC-skiing.

It could all be connected! See what clinic cynicism can do?!

 

[Cloxxki]

So was that a translation error somewhere? She used it for 12 days right up to the test, not last 12 days before? It makes the dose (any dose) found more realistic. So would they top her off on the first day of the camp, to get the nice half lives, or spread it a bit for opimal uptake?

 

[python]

. So ... How much ointment did she use or how long has she used it ?

she undoubtedly was asked the questions by adno, though, 'how long', while certainly pertinent, isn't the key question (which was answered btw and made public, i wonder why)...

the key questions are - how did she apply it, how many times a day, if it was stickily as recommended by the manufacturer ? this would allow to crudely estimate the amount of banned drug (clostebol) that might have crossed her lips skin. none was leaked. nor the actual drug concentration was reported this is the key, absolute key, to excluding other routes by which clostebol could have gotten into her circulation.

regarding the ability to detect clostebol, as i mentioned earlier, i came across a recent study that claims a window of 30 days. i will provide the link if and when our discussions reach that point. such a sensitivity is based on selecting the longest lingering clostebol metabolite and zeroing onto it.

 

[BullsFan22]

Even though I knew this sort of reaction would likely come from some members of the US Ski Team, it's still disappointing and quite telling, IMO:

http://fasterskier.com/blog/article/johaug-news-stuns-u-s-womens-team-saarinen-takes-to-social-media/

 

[python]

Moving in the right direction, it seems, hopefully. They need to pop Bjoergen now and some sanity will, perhaps, finally be restored. Then they need to go look into the 80's, 90's and early 2000's with the Norwegians, starting with the alleged work of Conconi and perhaps Ferrari and the inclusion of EPO in xc skiing in the mid to late 80's. Then move to blood doping of the 90's and high blood values and hematocrit levels.

Don't forget to include the early eighties. What did the swedes do back then that the Norwegians didn't? Why did the swedes so hastily abandon their own research into altitude training (only for the Norwegians to pick up the remains and reap the benefits)? Who from the Swedish camp deflected to the Norwegian one in the late 80's?

Of course we can focus on the Swedes as well. It's actually amazing what Swedish sport was doing starting in the early 1970's and really early to mid 1990's. From Bjorn Borgs stamina, Ingemar Stenmark's dominance of alpine skiing, to the success of Malmö and Goteborg in European football, to Wilander, Edberg, Svan, Wassberg, an incredibly deep pool of skiers and tennis payers, etc...I always thought it was simply a golden era of Swedish sport. I don't know anymore...

Then, if focusing on that era, don't forget table tennis, men's handball and icehockey. Failing though to see the relevance for a thread about doping in XC-skiing.

It could all be connected! See what clinic cynicism can do?!

my apologies for missing your point, but i fail to see what stops you from connecting your own points in a separate thread opened by you and dedicated to the sports you cared about. all that, as discgear suggested, (and i believe some posters would second) to prevent cluttering the thread ? really, go ahead and i might contribute...but please dont clutter the good thread