Doping in XC skiing

[Blaaswix]

Re:

FIS boss: "Norway must suspend Johaug"

https://www.nrk.no/norge/fis_-_-norge-ma-utestenge-johaug-1.13180547

So antidoping Norway tested Johaug, positive result, didn't notify FIS and she's not suspended from the national team or from international sport. And the team coach says she will probably be traveling to Italy for an upcoming team gathering.

Uh... WHAT?!

 

[meat puppet]

Business as usual

Btw, isnt Ulvang the head of fis xc?

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

FIS boss: "Norway must suspend Johaug"

https://www.nrk.no/norge/fis_-_-norge-ma-utestenge-johaug-1.13180547

So antidoping Norway tested Johaug, positive result, didn't notify FIS and she's not suspended from the national team or from international sport. And the team coach says she will probably be traveling to Italy for an upcoming team gathering.

Uh... WHAT?!

She will get away with warning. Just shows that FIS=Norway.

I really hope the other countries will riot and boycot in case it happens.

 

[Discgear]

Assuming the official story produced by Therese Johaug, the team doctor and the Norwegian Ski Federation was correct, she truly was unlucky, and I will explain why soon.

However, it takes some mental strength to oversee the theatrical tearless sobbing, strange eye movements (up to the left http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php) and finishing punch in the table. You also have to shut off your intellect accepting that an experienced team doctor runs away in a foreign country to a drug store, and buys an ointment clearly marked doping and with the word clostebol acetate, gives it to the athlete and assures it is not on the prohibited list. Further on, you have to oversee the fact that the athlete in an interview two weeks after this “happening” assures that she triple checks every medication and specifically mentions ointment to threat cold sores. But two weeks earlier used an unfamiliar ointment, marked doping, without any double- or triple checking.

Providing you are able to put in the mental effort needed to accept the official version, than you must accept that this is the case when Murphy’s Law truly did hit one skier. Because, if there was one single anabolic steroid on earth that you would expect a female XC-skier to use, it would be Clostebol. Out of all treatment there is for cold sores, the Norwegian Team doctor managed to pick the one containing clostebol, in the single XC-country on earth were it is sold.

SO, it doesn’t look good for Therese Johaug who on numerous occasions in the past went publically about her inability to eat enough food and hence building muscles. The last seasons something has clearly changed and she has showed off quite an impressive and athletic body, together with being virtually unbeatable in the tracks.

From Ironmagazine (http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/clostebol-explained/):
So, in the simplest of terms, what we are looking at is a form of testosterone that doesn’t convert to estrogen. While this might sound great, it’s important to note that the conversion of testosterone to estrogen actually imparts many beneficial effects, not the least of which is an increased anabolic (muscle-building) capacity. Of course, there are a lot of potential drawbacks to steroids that convert to estrogen, not the least of which are gynecomastia (development of female-like breast tissue), water retention, and additional/increased suppression of natural testosterone levels.

So while clostebol is relatively weak [compared to testosterone], expensive, and rare, the trade-off is worth it to many, who are looking to avoid side-effects…and perhaps beat a drug test. Currently, it’s available on the black market, with both the acetate ester as well as a more long-acting form, which features the same closetebol hormone attached to the enanthate ester. The former would be expected to have an active life of a few hours if consumed orally, or a couple of days if injected. The long-acting enanthate version would necessitate once per week injections, and would be virtually inactive if consumed orally.

Btw, where is ToreBear?

 

[bambino]

The money in skiing is collected nowadays in tours (i.e. tour de ski) and for world cup win. Sprint competitions play ever increasing role on both, especially for women. Couple of years ago TJ was unable to compete for overall wins as she did not have the power and weight to even make through the cut in Sprint. In past 2 years she suddenly has managed to create both power and speed to be top 10 sprinter in the world. Strange.

 

[jens_attacks]

love them both but yeah marit and therese really are bad, bad girls

clearly one of the best athletes in recent sports history maybe even all time. just like marco and lance, they are flying way way too close to sun (more than their competitors), pushing very hard their bodies and their luck. the protection is there to look for them but you never know. i hope they won't fall hard.

monsters

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

The money in skiing is collected nowadays in tours (i.e. tour de ski) and for world cup win. Sprint competitions play ever increasing role on both, especially for women. Couple of years ago TJ was unable to compete for overall wins as she did not have the power and weight to even make through the cut in Sprint. In past 2 years she suddenly has managed to create both power and speed to be top 10 sprinter in the world. Strange.

Yea, I've had many a rant about the progressive sprint-weighting of the World Cup, especially for the women where often the "distance" races are pretty short, meaning that strong sprint competitors who are decent up to 10k can be competitive in nearly everything, while a proper distance specialist (I've always used Steira as the example) has very few races for them, hence as young skiers develop there's little reason for them to want to be a distance specialist, and indeed real distance skiers coming through the ranks are few in number (though there are a few, Nathalie von Siebenthal springs to mind), while even truly elite established distance skiers like Johaug and Weng are having to improve their sprint skills because the sprints account for so much of the calendar nowadays (Heidi's now pretty decent in a sprint at least at some of the tougher courses like at Lahti), yet because so many points are paid in the Tours, even dominant sprinters are nowhere in the overall. Although both pretty much retired by now, I've always used these as the examples so I'll keep them: there is far more reason for an aspiring young female skier to want to be a powerhouse like Kikkan Randall than there is for her to want to be an elegant skier like Kristin Størmer Steira, and that I feel is absolutely not the right move for the sport. The men's field is deep enough that this is not so much of a problem, the distance races are typically sufficiently long for the strongest sprinters (other than all-rounders like Northug obviously) to be dropped so we get a completely different set of competitors. Nobody expects to see Pellegrino at the front of a distance race, and nobody expects to see Sjur Røthe or Maurice Manificat in a sprint final.

 

[python]

since we are into pictures, where's blackcat - the expert face analyst and the author of the eponymous thread ? i am going into an area, i usually avoid. :surprised:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

 

[Cloxxki]

Amazing, amazing...

But, anyone, what about the long time since administration offered? Combined with the short halflife, doesn't that make the absorbed quantity needlessly large? Not what you'd like to admit of a lip balm...

Could it have come from Johaug, being genuine (and stupid), when she couldn't consult a doc and a lawyer for a smart answer?

I wonder to which extent the XC world will respond to this pretty much unlawful treatment of Norwegians. Sundy acquitted by nameless officials, Johaug sails by all bans thanks to producing an old tube of of lip balm with the offending substance on it?

 

[John de Savage]

Strict liability

The principle of strict liability requires a high degree of responsibility on the part of athletes, as they have to take responsibility for all prohibited substances found in their body.

It is therefore extremely important for athletes to ensure that all medicines, supplements or other substances that are being taken are free from any prohibited active substance.

The anti-doping provisions stipulate that anti-doping organisations have to prove that the rules have been violated. In the case of prohibited substances, it is usually considered sufficient proof if a recognised analysis laboratory demonstrates that a banned substance is present and that this can be assigned to the athlete concerned.

http://www.antidoping.ch/en/testing/athletes-rights-and-responsibilities

How could she possibly get away with it? The freakin product she supposedly used has Clostebol written on it in big fat letters.

 

[python]

...just read a recent, very interesting study on the detection of clostebol. having in mind the long detection window (up to 30 days for some metabolites) i got an idea i would pursue immediately,....if i was a wada science director.

specifically, wada should immediately send their testers to normay to obtain samples from therese before they fully washed out. i would take all three matrices: urine, blood and hair and send them to the cologne lab. a detailed steroid profile could be built in anticipation that johaug with all the might of the norwegian state will fight tooth and nail. just like they did with sundby. i'd also direct all wada labs to set aside all johaug samples still in the freezer. if i recall correctly, the wada rules allow reanalysis of all old samples at any time w/o the athlete express permission.

i bet they may find a lot of interesting things...

added: and another idea - since my brain is into generating uslessness this morn - i'd order sundby shaving his chin so that it could be analyzed by the clinic experts

but if seriously, and this is a verified fact taken from the cas award, sundby listed at least 4 meds for 3 different illnesses conditions. a very sick man indeed beating the world's best. i'd exposed his urine to the idea above to find out what he did NOT tell cas. the newest very sensitive methods were likely not used on him.

 

[meat puppet]

Apparently there is a reason for the fact that Johaug has not been suspended, claims a Finnish news piece interviewing a legal expert. It is related to the way that the Norwegian institutions interpret and implement the wada code. In the Norwegian model an athlete cannot be suspended until the "issue has been thoroughly examined". In this case this might mean setting up a research endeavour to establish how the said lipcream affects subjects and how it behaves metabolically in the given official timeframe Johaug stated for the application of the cream, according to a Finnish expert in sports juridics, Olli Rauste. Unless the hypothetical dummy study corroborates the doping hypothesis, the Norwegian rulebook actually prevents suspending an athlete. Doing the study and all the formalities involved might take months, even a season.

Overall, according to the expert this setup contradicts the wada code, in particular rule 7.9.1 which requires that a positive a sample automatically triggers a provisional suspension of the athlete within seven days after they have been informed of the positive. In Johaug's case she was informed on oct 4th.

The story can be found here, Google translate helps: http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9233134

If this is anywhere near to the truth, it would outline at least one possible explanation as to why no suspension has been handed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is this similar to the legal code that enables Petter Northug to suspend his prison sentence until his career is over and everyone's forgotten about it while they do studies to find out whether alcohol actually inhibits your ability to drive and your judgement?

 

[meat puppet]

That's good ol' corruption and favouritism.

This looks more like a firewall between athletes and rules.

 

[python]

If this is anywhere near to the truth, it would outline at least one possible explanation as to why no suspension has been handed.

not only their actions contradict the wada code, but as was pointed above the fis general secretary directly accused them of not following the fis rules. a day or 2 ago, i read on nrk the antidoping norge explained their lack of rushing, in part, by the fact that johaug cant race anyway b/c the season hasn't started..when asked how long they intend to take, if i understood correctly, the adn person did not commit to a date, but said not very long.

but things are starting however slightly move towards the common sense, even in norway. per the national coach, johaug could, if she wanted, proceed with team to val senales. however some notable norwegians objected, saying it cast the wrong light on the country. the result - therese will stay home 'voluntarily'

the cutie wont climb out of this pit for at least 2 seasons...anything else equals wada blatantly reversing itself on one of its corner stone principles - strict liability. there is one overwhelming fact therese can't get away from whatever the doc said - the tube, not just the package, was marked 'doping'. or the good doc used his fingers to apply the cream to therese's lips. which would be an obvious nonsense.

in the meantime, the cream receipt has allegedly surfaced

 

[Lyon]

Re:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

This is off-topic but she never was cute. Always looked (and acted) like a little boy from her area. Of course when it comes to females in sport, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Blaaswix]

Re: Re:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

This is off-topic but she never was cute. Always looked (and acted) like a little boy from her area. Of course when it comes to females in sport, beggars can't be choosers.

This has been an excellent, detailed and longstanding discussion about doping in XC, please don't spoil it with misogyny.

 

[meat puppet]

Re: Re:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

This is off-topic but she never was cute. Always looked (and acted) like a little boy from her area. Of course when it comes to females in sport, beggars can't be choosers.

This has been an excellent, detailed and longstanding discussion about doping in XC, please don't spoil it with misogyny.

Second that. Not the point, really.

Python: true, the head of fis rightfully pointed out that the actions of the norwegians have not been adequate. But imho the point of the finnish legal expert was that in addition to that, and i am obviously simplifying here to tease out the relevant distinction, the norwegian institutional setup (the framework for actions, if you like) as it is tends to steer actors the wrong way in situations like this.

This only amplifies the problems, and adds another layer to consider. Whether his assesment is 100% i dont know, but the point seems relevant.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

If this is anywhere near to the truth, it would outline at least one possible explanation as to why no suspension has been handed.

not only their actions contradict the wada code, but as was pointed above the fis general secretary directly accused them of not following the fis rules. a day or 2 ago, i read on nrk the antidoping norge explained their lack of rushing, in part, by the fact that johaug cant race anyway b/c the season hasn't started..when asked how long they intend to take, if i understood correctly, the adn person did not commit to a date, but said not very long.

but things are starting however slightly move towards the common sense, even in norway. per the national coach, johaug could, if she wanted, proceed with team to val senales. however some notable norwegians objected, saying it cast the wrong light on the country. the result - therese will stay home 'voluntarily'

the cutie wont climb out of this pit for at least 2 seasons...anything else equals wada blatantly reversing itself on one of its corner stone principles - strict liability. there is one overwhelming fact therese can't get away from whatever the doc said - the tube, not just the package, was marked 'doping'. or the good doc used his fingers to apply the cream to therese's lips. which would be an obvious nonsense.

in the meantime, the cream receipt has allegedly surfaced

Hey look! It's Sir Dave Brailsford!! No problem in clearing Therese's name and taking the weight off the NSF then!!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

This is off-topic but she never was cute. Always looked (and acted) like a little boy from her area. Of course when it comes to females in sport, beggars can't be choosers.

This has been an excellent, detailed and longstanding discussion about doping in XC, please don't spoil it with misogyny.

Second that. Not the point, really.

Python: true, the head of fis rightfully pointed out that the actions of the norwegians have not been adequate. But imho the point of the finnish legal expert was that in addition to that, and i am obviously simplifying here to tease out the relevant distinction, the norwegian institutional setup (the framework for actions, if you like) as it is tends to steer actors the wrong way in situations like this.

This only amplifies the problems, and adds another layer to consider. Whether his assesment is 100% i dont know, but the point seems relevant.

Sarah Lewis, the FIS general secretary made a good point, as you mention. I am not going to dissect her statement, but if another Norwegian national team member, or two, fail a test in the near future, I wonder what the NSF will come up with, and if they aren't given a suspension, what will be everyone's reaction?

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

not a cute face anymore...btw, one of the steroid side effects is, besides the jaw.............skin thinning.

This is off-topic but she never was cute. Always looked (and acted) like a little boy from her area. Of course when it comes to females in sport, beggars can't be choosers.

This has been an excellent, detailed and longstanding discussion about doping in XC, please don't spoil it with misogyny.

Maybe it's misogyny but not only misogyny, it's to the actual topic of doping, too. Doping really can change features of the face.

My opinion on her face is same - she always had rather hard, masculine features (please don't search for misogyny in it, it isn't there).

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23723123.ab?ref=yfp
"På listan över tidigare uppdrag, som finns att läsa på Bendiksens Linkedin-sida, märks insatser inom fotbollen, hockeyn, handbollen, skridskon och kanoten. Ett jobb sticker ut lite extra: mellan 1995 och 2003 var han "medical director" och "country manager" för läkemedelsföretaget Pfizer, vilka är de som tillverkar Trofodermin."
Bendiksen worked for Pfizer between 1995 and 2003 and they make Trofodermin.

 

[Discgear]

Re:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/vintersport/skidor/article23723123.ab?ref=yfp
Bendiksen worked for Pfizer between 1995 and 2003 and they make Trofodermin.

Yes, Bendiksen worked for Pfizer. He also was the team doctor of HamKam when Sveinung Fjeldstad became the first Norwegian footballer to test positive for anabolic steroid. Despite that, he supposedly failed to notice that the ointment he bought with cash - and asked for - in an Italian drug store, was marked doping and with Clostebol in big letters.

One of the most peculiar things in this, is that Johaug and Bendiksen claimed that Johaug suffered from sunburned lips. Still, her problems with cold sores (herpes?) throughout the years are familiar and well-documented. Weng has the same problems. In this clip http://www.svt.se/sport/vintersport/johaug-ledsen-over-misstankliggorande/ Weng talks about how she even has to check her cold sore ointments on the doping list. That clip by the way is from the notorious camp in Livigno, with Johaugs sored lips.

One of the side effects with Trofodermin is Multiple ulcers in and around the mouth . http://www.tabletwise.com/trofodermin-skin-cream/side-effects

Maybe someone with a medics eye could tell the differences between multiple ulsters, sunburn, cold sores or herpes and make a diagnosis on Johaugs lips in the clip?

 

[meat puppet]

Well, the point is that acromegaly and similar effects of hormone and steroid abuse can with ease be discussed without any reference to cuteness, good looks etc. Whether some features that doping brings about do please the implied malegaze of the commentators or not is mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

[python]

that was very interesting new info on bendiksen !

so a doctor who claimed at a pressconference he did not know what happened to him when byuing the doping product, worked for the manufacturer of the very doping product...hm

for the sanity's sake, i checked...yes, indeed, pfizer makes the product. but not only pfizer.

drugs.com cites a list of 246 drugs for pfizer. frankly, a top medic professional prescribing medicines daily for decades should not depend on reading labels - he should know them by heart.