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OneRaceWonder said:Veerpalu caught for HGH!
He got caught doing something we always knew he was doing!!!
Thanks you.neineinei said:The Estonian Ski Association held a press conference today in Tallinn:
Veerpalu tested positive for HGH in an out of competition test in Otepää January 29.
The Estonian Ski Association was informed about the positive test February 12.
Andrus Veerpalu was informed February 15.
Both A- and B-test had too high levels of HGH.
Veerpalu was present at the press conference and he denies any and all doping. Present at the press conference was also Dr. Jüri Laasik of the Estonian antidoping TUE committee.
Dr. Laasik said: " "After a hard training hormone levels in the body increases. HGH levels can rise up to 20 times of what is normal after a training session of 3.5 hours. The sample of Veerpalu was taken after such a session, and we can assume that is why his HGH levels were so high, "he said.
Laasik says that there is still a possibility that the b-sample may be incorrect.
- The legal limit is 1.81 and 1.68, but the b-sample first result was 2.73 and the other 2.0. There is still a possibility that the B-sample will be declared negative, as there was so much difference on the b-sample. It may be there has been an error in the test. "
The quote is Google translate Norwegian to English, quoted directly from http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/04/07/sport/ski/langrenn/andrus_veerpalu/16106477/
Ney the Viking said:why the hell would testers take the test after a hard ride if they know that can lead to bad results?!? Shouldn't they take it in the morning or something then.
Makes no sence to me.
neineinei said:http://www.nrk.no/sport/langrenn/1.7585215
During the Lahti WC in 2001 a list of blood values of the skiers was made for scientific purposes. It was not to be published. Dag Vidar Hanstad (later PhD) had access to this data and he choose to use it in his book "Seier'n er vår" which was published in Norway in 2002, where he included a list of the 12 medalists with abnormal blood values. According to Hanstad there were in all 23 skiers from 13 nations with high blood values. None of them were from Sweden or Norway.
The 12 on his list were:
Johann Mühlegg, Spain. Positive for Darbepoetin Salt Lake City 2002
Andrus Veerpalu, Estonia. Positive for HGH, Otepää 2011
Olga Danilova, Russia. Positive for Darbepoetin Salt Lake City 2002
Yuliya Chepalova, Russia. Positive for EPO Val di Fiemme 2009
Larissa Lazutina, Russia. Positive for Darbepoetin Salt Lake City 2002
Vitalij Danisov, Russia. Retired in 2003. No positive doping tests.
Nina Gavriljuk, Russia. Retired in 2003. No positive doping tests.
Kaisa Varis, Finland. Positive for EPO Val di Fiemme 2003 + as a biathlete in 2008 (but let of the last time on a technicality).
Milla Jauho, Finland. Positive for HES Lahti 2001.
Janne Immonen, Finland. Positive for HES Lahti 2001.
Harri Kirvesniemi, Finland. Positive for HES Lahti 2001.
Mika Myllylä, Finland. Positive for HES Lahti 2001. Admitted in 2011 to have used EPO.
neineinei said:Here is some more about Dr. Laasiks view on the HGH testing:
http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/595864
(Google translate makes Estonian sentences come out tupsy-turvy.)
""Although different laboratories trying to argue that the methodology makes a distinction between the body and artificially produced ( with the help of banned substances - ed. ) produced by hormones, you can not take it quite truthfully, "said Laasik."
Ney the Viking said:Ah, so he is talking out his donkey basically? But if anyone know about the tests and wether there is an actual impact on when they are taken I would like to know. Because it seems really really insane that a dopinbg agency would take samples that they knew couldnt be used.
Von Mises said:Though, I have little doubts about Veerpalu´s positive, this righteousness of norwegians is sickening. Come on, norwegians have dominated x-skiing for 20 years during all these dark times. During the Lahti WC in 2001 they won 8 medals, including 4 golds. It just does not make sense ifall around are doped to gills, norwegians can still beat them.
Bavarianrider said:Hey guys, i am new on the forum so Hallo first of all
Very interesting thread, i want to ad something.
In my younger days i was an active cross country skier, never on top, but involved enough to see what's going on.
This might come to you as a shock, but among the top talents the use of drugs already starts at age 14/15. No complicated stuff, but all kind of legal medication and also anabolic stuff is started to be used. The whole drug mentality starts at this age, and if you don't jump on this boat, sooner or later you won't be able to keep up anymore.
So as i know what's going on among juniors, there's just no way i can believe that the pros are clean. No it's impossible. You can be the biggest talent, but if you are not juiced you can't win a ****.
OneRaceWonder said:I can see why you think the "righteousness of norwegians is sickening". But why are they never blacklisted or mentioned in XC-skiing? Could it be because they're ahead in other areas than doping (training regime, ski preperations etc), or are they ahead on how to manage a program? Just wondering...why are there never any swedes or norwegians mentioned?
Von Mises said:Though, I have little doubts about Veerpalu´s positive, this righteousness of norwegians is sickening. Come on, norwegians have dominated x-skiing for 20 years during all these dark times. During the Lahti WC in 2001 they won 8 medals, including 4 golds. It just does not make sense ifall around are doped to gills, norwegians can still beat them.
Von Mises said:Only case what I remeber was Bente Skari who suddenly and without any warning retired. I dont know about Norwegian papers, but in many other countries there were speculations, that Skari was caught and his dad (Odd Martinsen), who was chairman of FIS x-skiing commitee silenced the case.
But this was just a rumour, dont know was it true or not. But storys about better training regime or higher cadence are hard to believe when you constantly beat known and proven dopers.
Ingenerius said:In the 90's it is a fact that the norwegians had far superior skis than all other nations, which probably is the biggest reason why they were competitive during the worst EPO years. Sweden didn't have a chance during those years.
Bente Skari dominated after the ski advantage was gone, but still during the years where doping as much as you want were practised. (The possibility of getting caught wasn't really a factor until Lahti 2001 when testing started to improve) She is the norwegian I suspect the most of doping by far. The only reasons I can think of that she was clean and could beat really big(and proven) dopers, was that her classical technique was perfect(I think best of all time, men and women) and far better than all competitors, and that the competitors was much closer to beat her during the important competitions (olympics and championships) than during the regular world cup races. But it is still a stretch.
As mentioned the retirement was a bit weird, why would she retire when the testing got better and it would be harder for the dopers (There was some years to the next medal opportunity though). And why retire when she finally started to win in skating too. How she could win in skating undoped is also a question since she had horrible skate technique, even though she only won after her technique improved a bit, and she never won any important competitions in skating. So I think it exists a possibility(small) that she was clean, but I suspect her the most.
I believe the reason why the norwegians are competitive today is because the field is cleaner today, testing is much better, and it is not so easy to dope in huge quantities, which gives a chance to talented skiiers. At least I hope so. I think its a good sign that the swedish are competitive as well. And norwegians do lose when the dopers dope as shown by Heikkinen in the world championships.