Dr Steve Peters - Is he really just a confidence trickster?

[horsinabout]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-KI1D5NPJs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r91qf#programme-broadcasts

http://www.teamsky.com/profile/0,27291,17543_8342932,00

http://www.chimpparadox.co.uk/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/dr-steve-peters-from-chimps-to-champs-7462498.html

On the BBC radio 4 today program on at around 42.40 mins this morning, Dr Steve Peters was on air to state his involvement with Rugby Union in the UK. He talked briefly about his "breakthrough" psychological model that had helped UK's amazing achievements in sport in recent years, particularly his involvement in cycling.

It struck me in his interview today, how he was playing down his "inner chimp" mind paradox until promted. In the above Youtube video posted in 2012, during the intro he states that the paradox which he is describing, was developed over 30 years of experience.

Dr Peters has mainly worked with Sky and Bradley Wiggins, British Cycling's Chris Hoy and Vicky Pendelton. And some other minor mentions in other sports so far as I have researched.

So now for why this needs to be in the clinic. Well, if Sky and it's cyclists have been doping, as discussed here on the forum, will this make Dr Peters mind model some what over hyped in the extreme?

I would like the clinics views, but please do your reseach before any flipant remarks. And in particular, no doping innuendo's regarding the chimp stealing the biscuits and not getting caught!

 

[mattghg]

Peters got his reputation working with the GB track team, didn't he?

 

[blackcat]

inner chimp

 

[northstar]

Sports psychology has its time and place. A minority of athletes may benefit from it, most will not.

Dr. Peters was the guy at Sky who interviewed Leinders prior to hiring him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/14/lance-armstrong-team-sky

That’s all I need to know about the doctor and his inner chimp programme. He’s on the Sky gravy train. I’m sure there will be a new book from him any day now.

 

[martinvickers]

Sports psychology has its time and place. A minority of athletes may benefit from it, most will not.

Dr. Peters was the guy at Sky who interviewed Leinders prior to hiring him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/14/lance-armstrong-team-sky

That’s all I need to know about the doctor and his inner chimp programme. He’s on the Sky gravy train. I’m sure there will be a new book from him any day now.

ACtually he's left them for British Athletics, though he still does some consulting.

and this is a baiting thread - there are already Sky threads.

 

[blackcat]

Sports psychology has its time and place. A minority of athletes may benefit from it, most will not.

rounding errors.

 

[northstar]

ACtually he's left them for British Athletics, though he still does some consulting.

and this is a baiting thread - there are already Sky threads.

I didn't know that. He's listed as Team Sky's Psychiatrist and Head of Medicine on their website. I guess that needs to be updated.

 

[Barnaby]

Dr Peters should come on here. More chimps than he could ever dream of.

 

[horsinabout]

Sports psychology has its time and place. A minority of athletes may benefit from it, most will not.

Dr. Peters was the guy at Sky who interviewed Leinders prior to hiring him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/14/lance-armstrong-team-sky

That’s all I need to know about the doctor and his inner chimp programme. He’s on the Sky gravy train. I’m sure there will be a new book from him any day now.

He isn't a sport psychologist he's a psyciatrist there is a difference.

Don't you want to look after your chimp and thank that little monkey for stealing all the cookies from the cookie jar and not getting CAUGHT...

 

[mattghg]

I would like the clinics views, but please do your reseach before any flipant remarks. And in particular, no doping innuendo's regarding the chimp stealing the biscuits and not getting caught!

Don't you want to look after your chimp and thank that little monkey for stealing all the cookies from the cookie jar and not getting CAUGHT...

Consistency?

 

[horsinabout]

Consistency?

Sorry couldn't resist...that video is a hoot.

 

[martinvickers]

I didn't know that. He's listed as Team Sky's Psychiatrist and Head of Medicine on their website. I guess that needs to be updated.

No, as far as I'm aware, it's still his job title, but it's on a contracting basis - the newly titled BA is his 'main' employer now - apparently the younger cyclists saw less need for him...

suspect it suits BC; they still have him as they need, and can share the cost. I've a notion he's supposed to work with the sprint relay people

British Athletics announcement here

Interestingly, this appears something of a journey home - Peters was/is a runner...

Check out the Athletics Weekly cover

Finally, he's done some work with RFU around 2007 - they year they went from chaos to the final of the RWC, as I remember

 

[peace in middle east]

Is this known?
Jan van Eijden, now full-time coach of BC and Victoria Pendleton's coach in 2008 and 2012, was removed from the German WC squad in 2000 for high hematocrit values.
The UCI gave him a "Sondergenehmigung" so that he could start all the same.

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/jan-van-eijden-ist-den-doping-makel-los-1.1546407

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

 

[Parrot23]

If Radioshack/Leopard had someone like Peters, they would have intervened far earlier to help Andy Schleck. (He seems to be suffering something akin to depression--no laughing matter, and not uncommon among procyclists, e.g. Tyler Hamilton among others).

I think the inner chimp stuff is just a simplified (ie. useable) use of the concept of one aspect of our brain, our so-called reptilian, knee-jerk brain tendencies. That's hardly in dispute in the field. Ample evidence of that in the clinic!

 

[horsinabout]

Is this known?
Jan van Eijden, now full-time coach of BC and Victoria Pendleton's coach in 2008 and 2012, was removed from the German WC squad in 2000 for high hematocrit values.
The UCI gave him a "Sondergenehmigung" so that he could start all the same.

Oh yes I knew, and I have brougt this up on a number of occasions, right here on the form

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/jan-van-eijden-ist-den-doping-makel-los-1.1546407

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

 

[horsinabout]

Is this known?Yes and I have raised this issue right here on the forum

Jan van Eijden, now full-time coach of BC and Victoria Pendleton's coach in 2008 and 2012, was removed from the German WC squad in 2000 for high hematocrit values.
The UCI gave him a "Sondergenehmigung" so that he could start all the same.

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/jan-van-eijden-ist-den-doping-makel-los-1.1546407

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

Yes and I have raised this issue right here on the forum

...............

 

[martinvickers]

If Radioshack/Leopard had someone like Peters, they would have intervened far earlier to help Andy Schleck. (He seems to be suffering something akin to depression--no laughing matter, and not uncommon among procyclists, e.g. Tyler Hamilton among others).

I think the inner chimp stuff is just a simplified (ie. useable) use of the concept of one aspect of our brain, our so-called reptilian, knee-jerk brain tendencies. That's hardly in dispute in the field. Ample evidence of that in the clinic!

I've no notion if Andy dopes or not. At this precise stage, not sure I care; the lad's in awful trouble by the looks of things, and he needs a hand - goes much deeper than just riding a bike. However it happens, hope he gets the help he needs.

 

[martinvickers]

Is this known?
Jan van Eijden, now full-time coach of BC and Victoria Pendleton's coach in 2008 and 2012, was removed from the German WC squad in 2000 for high hematocrit values.
The UCI gave him a "Sondergenehmigung" so that he could start all the same.

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/jan-van-eijden-ist-den-doping-makel-los-1.1546407

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

Sondergenehmigung seems basically to be a TEU - literally a "special approval"

 

[mastersracer]

If Radioshack/Leopard had someone like Peters, they would have intervened far earlier to help Andy Schleck. (He seems to be suffering something akin to depression--no laughing matter, and not uncommon among procyclists, e.g. Tyler Hamilton among others).

I think the inner chimp stuff is just a simplified (ie. useable) use of the concept of one aspect of our brain, our so-called reptilian, knee-jerk brain tendencies. That's hardly in dispute in the field. Ample evidence of that in the clinic!

The notion of a reptilian brain (part of MacLean's triune brain theory from the 60s) is outdated. The basal ganglia (which MacLean identified with the reptilian brain) is in fact an extremely flexible behavioral system that is nowadays identified with a 'habit' system in the brain, which uses model-free reinforcement learning (Temporal Difference learning, etc.) to build associations between actions and values.

The idea of an 'inner chimp' is also pretty vacuous, as much of what Peters dismisses as irrational and emotional is in fact highly adaptive. Proper neuroscientists and researchers working in judgment and decision-making refer to it as an intuitive system, which is contrasted with a deliberative system, but do not put the deliberative system on a pinnacle the way Peters does (which is very old-fashioned). Depending on the information available in a particular decision context, the output of the intuitive system is normatively a better guide to decision-making than the deliberative system.

That said, Peters - like much of psychiatry - provides a compelling and simple way to explain behavior and may be a useful fable to help athletes perform better.

 

[Parrot23]

<snip>....

That said, Peters - like much of psychiatry - provides a compelling and simple way to explain behavior and may be a useful fable to help athletes perform better.

Thanks. You know more than I do on this. Looked at his book on Amazon (didn't appeal to me at least).

On your latter point, yes there may be a placebo effect here. "Placebo doping" (but with bread and water), ha, ha!

Just wait, I bet a new thread on Sky is going to start up, "Dirty Rotten Placebo Doping", with Peters instructing team docs. to hand out fancy blue and red pills (filled with flavoured water) in the morning before big stages, and everyone's watts/kgs jumps

A second thought: in cycling, being "in the zone", in the flow etc., is not nearly as important as it is in sports with a much higher skill-base, tennis and golf etc, where excess deliberation will kill performance but flow and automaticity will make it superb. Intuitive system may not be very important in cycling, except when choosing to attack or reading the race at crucial moments.

In cycling, deliberative learning/control as to when NOT to react to attacks, as Froome was learning last year, may be more important. Horner said Sky and Froome in particular was very calm and collected in Tirreno when Bertie etc. was burning his matchsticks. So, the crudity of the reptilian metaphor might fit cycling. May not matter whether he's wrong or right in the bigger scheme, just that it works in this case, per placebo effect.

 

[blackcat]

Is this known?
Jan van Eijden, now full-time coach of BC and Victoria Pendleton's coach in 2008 and 2012, was removed from the German WC squad in 2000 for high hematocrit values.
The UCI gave him a "Sondergenehmigung" so that he could start all the same.

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/jan-van-eijden-ist-den-doping-makel-los-1.1546407

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

love the handle, that would sound like a Arbiter, BPC, Polish sig unless I did not read the post...

love those German portmanteaus

Ully had a problem with those, if the offseason donuts had rid him of the portman2 he could have been a champion.

 

[Tinman]

The notion of a reptilian brain (part of MacLean's triune brain theory from the 60s) is outdated. The basal ganglia (which MacLean identified with the reptilian brain) is in fact an extremely flexible behavioral system that is nowadays identified with a 'habit' system in the brain, which uses model-free reinforcement learning (Temporal Difference learning, etc.) to build associations between actions and values.

The idea of an 'inner chimp' is also pretty vacuous, as much of what Peters dismisses as irrational and emotional is in fact highly adaptive. Proper neuroscientists and researchers working in judgment and decision-making refer to it as an intuitive system, which is contrasted with a deliberative system, but do not put the deliberative system on a pinnacle the way Peters does (which is very old-fashioned). Depending on the information available in a particular decision context, the output of the intuitive system is normatively a better guide to decision-making than the deliberative system.

Martin hope you are reading

'Evidence' of this? Or just some fun pop psych 101?

 

[Tinman]

Is BC a ticking bomb, or what?

This inner chimp thing is crazy by the way.

I give you 2 weeks, at most.

Martin, intuition at work.

 

[Tinman]

He isn't a sport psychologist he's a psyciatrist there is a difference.

The noteworthy difference in this context is that psychiatrists (can) prescribe drugs.

 

[Cavendash]

My football team Liverpool FC have been using him...

Basically its up to the players and staff if they want to speak to him... no-one has to speak to him if they dont want to.

2 players last season bought in for big fees during the previous summer - Stuart Downing (£20mill) and Jordan Henderson(£16mill) both had utterly torrid first seasons at the club, they were both hopeless, Downing is an experienced pro whilst Henderson was/is just a youngster.

Both are clearly confidence players... i have no idea why any club is interested in this type of player unless they are hugely talented which Downing isn't, hes never shown the ability to be a top tier player the crazy money paid for him suggests he is, Henderson is young and does at least have the potential to be one i guess.

Anyway both have had much better seasons this season, you could say they couldn't of gotton any worse, but still they have been so much better especially Henderson, they were both rightfully out of favour at the start of this season but now are regulars in the first team, guaranteed if any of the Liverpool players have spoken to Peters these 2 would of been top of the list.

I agree with the OP, he is a confidence trickster in a way, a better way of putting it is a confidence manipulator from what i can see, certainly not a bad thing, if he can get certain Liverpool players playing better then im happy.