Driving into cyclists the Emma way

[winkybiker]

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/thomas-kerr-jailed-for-crashing-into-sydney-cyclists-20150821-gj4f6c.html

Well this is a start.......

 

[Archibald]

Another prime example of Sydney's drivers and attitude during a ride on the weekend - I'm going up Galston gorge, the driver going down Galston gorge slows up, winds down his window, then leans out to yell "That's just dumb, buddy! Just dumb!" before driving on...
Genius

Non-biased description... crappy old toyota paseo, with driver looking very "second hand"...
As a mate of mine said, it's a class issue here, not a driver versus cyclist issue

 

[Archibald]

Re:

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/thomas-kerr-jailed-for-crashing-into-sydney-cyclists-20150821-gj4f6c.html

Well this is a start.......

true.

I didn't see a comments section either...

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Another prime example of Sydney's drivers and attitude during a ride on the weekend - I'm going up Galston gorge, the driver going down Galston gorge slows up, winds down his window, then leans out to yell "That's just dumb, buddy! Just dumb!" before driving on...
Genius

Non-biased description... crappy old toyota paseo, with driver looking very "second hand"...
As a mate of mine said, it's a class issue here, not a driver versus cyclist issue

I know Galston Gorge very, very well and I have to say that it's a nice climb but narrow and so many cars go tearing through there thinking they're Targa drivers. The only time I would ever ride through there was first thing in the morning, before hangover o'clock.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Another prime example of Sydney's drivers and attitude during a ride on the weekend - I'm going up Galston gorge, the driver going down Galston gorge slows up, winds down his window, then leans out to yell "That's just dumb, buddy! Just dumb!" before driving on...
Genius

Non-biased description... crappy old toyota paseo, with driver looking very "second hand"...
As a mate of mine said, it's a class issue here, not a driver versus cyclist issue

I know Galston Gorge very, very well and I have to say that it's a nice climb but narrow and so many cars go tearing through there thinking they're Targa drivers. The only time I would ever ride through there was first thing in the morning, before hangover o'clock.

this was around 7.30am

 

[42x16ss]

I've had it. Australia is officially the most f%^ked place in the world to ride a bike and Brisbane is the worst city.

Lately in Brisbane the closed Criterium circuit has had tacks laid out 3 Fridays in a row knowing that there is racing first thing on a Saturday from 6:45am. This circuit is also used by families to teach small children, runners, older people no longer confident on the road and triathletes. Last week the person(s) responsible even painted them all black and laid them down spikes up.

Some considerate pr!ck has been smashing bottles on the other closed criterium circuit at Nundah on Friday nights as well.

The MTB trails at Daisy Hill were blocked or booby trapped with branches, wires, ropes and tacks last weekend and there's been similar things happening at Coot-tha State Forest earlier this month.

Meanwhile there's been two hit and runs in Perth in the last week.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

I've had it. Australia is officially the most f%^ked place in the world to ride a bike and Brisbane is the worst city.

Lately in Brisbane the closed Criterium circuit has had tacks laid out 3 Fridays in a row knowing that there is racing first thing on a Saturday from 6:45am. This circuit is also used by families to teach small children, runners, older people no longer confident on the road and triathletes. Last week the person(s) responsible even painted them all black and laid them down spikes up.

Some considerate pr!ck has been smashing bottles on the other closed criterium circuit at Nundah on Friday nights as well.

The MTB trails at Daisy Hill were blocked or booby trapped with branches, wires, ropes and tacks last weekend and there's been similar things happening at Coot-tha State Forest earlier this month.

Meanwhile there's been two hit and runs in Perth in the last week.

nothing new here... http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...aps-for-cyclists/story-fni6uo1m-1227434985923

Always glass on the bike lanes and the combined bike/pedestrian paths here in sydney, but haven't encountered anything worse yet (excluding the occasional pavement pizza remnants on a monday morning commute...

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I've had it. Australia is officially the most f%^ked place in the world to ride a bike and Brisbane is the worst city.

Lately in Brisbane the closed Criterium circuit has had tacks laid out 3 Fridays in a row knowing that there is racing first thing on a Saturday from 6:45am. This circuit is also used by families to teach small children, runners, older people no longer confident on the road and triathletes. Last week the person(s) responsible even painted them all black and laid them down spikes up.

Some considerate pr!ck has been smashing bottles on the other closed criterium circuit at Nundah on Friday nights as well.

The MTB trails at Daisy Hill were blocked or booby trapped with branches, wires, ropes and tacks last weekend and there's been similar things happening at Coot-tha State Forest earlier this month.

Meanwhile there's been two hit and runs in Perth in the last week.

nothing new here... http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...aps-for-cyclists/story-fni6uo1m-1227434985923

Always glass on the bike lanes and the combined bike/pedestrian paths here in sydney, but haven't encountered anything worse yet (excluding the occasional pavement pizza remnants on a monday morning commute...

The thing is, this isn't happening on the road, this is on purpose built, closed circuits designed to get people off the road.

Brisbane has two, one in the south at Murrarie (the most popular) and one in the northern suburbs in Nundah. Nundah has had glass on the surface a lot lately while these are from the last two weeks at Murrarie:





The brassy tacks were from two weeks ago, the black ones from last Friday.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

As the man says...

Ahh, 'straya....still the worst country in the world for cycling. And proud of it.

the longer I'm back in my home country, the more I dislike being back

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

As the man says...

Ahh, 'straya....still the worst country in the world for cycling. And proud of it.

the longer I'm back in my home country, the more I dislike being back

I have no plans to return.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I've had it. Australia is officially the most f%^ked place in the world to ride a bike and Brisbane is the worst city.

Lately in Brisbane the closed Criterium circuit has had tacks laid out 3 Fridays in a row knowing that there is racing first thing on a Saturday from 6:45am. This circuit is also used by families to teach small children, runners, older people no longer confident on the road and triathletes. Last week the person(s) responsible even painted them all black and laid them down spikes up.

Some considerate pr!ck has been smashing bottles on the other closed criterium circuit at Nundah on Friday nights as well.

The MTB trails at Daisy Hill were blocked or booby trapped with branches, wires, ropes and tacks last weekend and there's been similar things happening at Coot-tha State Forest earlier this month.

Meanwhile there's been two hit and runs in Perth in the last week.

nothing new here... http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...aps-for-cyclists/story-fni6uo1m-1227434985923

Always glass on the bike lanes and the combined bike/pedestrian paths here in sydney, but haven't encountered anything worse yet (excluding the occasional pavement pizza remnants on a monday morning commute...

It's happening in Canberra too

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act...trap-for-cyclists-sprung-20150921-gjrlq7.html

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

I've had it. Australia is officially the most f%^ked place in the world to ride a bike and Brisbane is the worst city.

Lately in Brisbane the closed Criterium circuit has had tacks laid out 3 Fridays in a row knowing that there is racing first thing on a Saturday from 6:45am. This circuit is also used by families to teach small children, runners, older people no longer confident on the road and triathletes. Last week the person(s) responsible even painted them all black and laid them down spikes up.

Some considerate pr!ck has been smashing bottles on the other closed criterium circuit at Nundah on Friday nights as well.

The MTB trails at Daisy Hill were blocked or booby trapped with branches, wires, ropes and tacks last weekend and there's been similar things happening at Coot-tha State Forest earlier this month.

Meanwhile there's been two hit and runs in Perth in the last week.

nothing new here... http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...aps-for-cyclists/story-fni6uo1m-1227434985923

Always glass on the bike lanes and the combined bike/pedestrian paths here in sydney, but haven't encountered anything worse yet (excluding the occasional pavement pizza remnants on a monday morning commute...

It's happening in Canberra too

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act...trap-for-cyclists-sprung-20150921-gjrlq7.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/compulsory-insurance-for-cyclists-nsw-government-considers-schemes-20151002-gjztv2.html

The NSW government has come up with the solution. Compulsory insurance = no more cyclists = no problems with tacks. It's a win-win!

 

[Stingray34]

More hit and run fun times and hi-jinks in sunny, sophisticated Melbourne in the last 24 hours. Lovable larrikins in their jaunty jallopies!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-injured-in-hit-and-run-at-toolern-vale-20151003-gk0k5n.html

 

[Stingray34]

More fun and high-jinks, folks!! Slashed throats are big larf round here! *Warning: a bit graphic.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/boy-has-neck-slashed-by-rope-while-riding-his-bicycle-20151020-gkdbts.html

 

[dougvdh]

British Columbia's (Canada) public insurance company places blame on a cyclist killed by a drunk driver who crossed the centreline: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-s-public-auto-insurer-blames-careless-cyclist-for-his-own-death-in-crash-with-alleged-drunk-driver&q=Icbc

 

[Archibald]

Re:

British Columbia's (Canada) public insurance company places blame on a cyclist killed by a drunk driver who crossed the centreline: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-s-public-auto-insurer-blames-careless-cyclist-for-his-own-death-in-crash-with-alleged-drunk-driver&q=Icbc

I'd be curious to see how they think this will stick... perhaps Robbie Canuck could enlighten us?

 

[dougvdh]

Re: Re:

British Columbia's (Canada) public insurance company places blame on a cyclist killed by a drunk driver who crossed the centreline: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-s-public-auto-insurer-blames-careless-cyclist-for-his-own-death-in-crash-with-alleged-drunk-driver&q=Icbc

I'd be curious to see how they think this will stick... perhaps Robbie Canuck could enlighten us?

I doubt they think this will stick, but the tactic is probably to wear down the family by revictimizing them through a protracted process until they are willing to take a settlement for less than they deserve.

Beside it's probably more profitable for ICBC to pay their in-house legal than to pay claims.

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

British Columbia's (Canada) public insurance company places blame on a cyclist killed by a drunk driver who crossed the centreline: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/search/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-s-public-auto-insurer-blames-careless-cyclist-for-his-own-death-in-crash-with-alleged-drunk-driver&q=Icbc

Yes, seems appalling but is likely just part of the legal games, and is therefore actually appalling as well. The BC laws that require us to scurry along the right-hand edge of the road like frightened squirrels are particularly onerous.

 

[StryderHells]

More hit and run fun times and hi-jinks in sunny, sophisticated Melbourne in the last 24 hours. Lovable larrikins in their jaunty jallopies!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-injured-in-hit-and-run-at-toolern-vale-20151003-gk0k5n.html

I know Stacey M who was the rider hit in this incident, been on many rides with her and she is a capable, confident and courteous rider and to have this happen to her is disgusting.
I spend 15+ hours a week on Melbourne roads and the attitude of some drivers has been getting worse, the local media doesn't help the situation with most articles and TV segments starting with headlines like 'Drivers vs Cyclists' or 'War on the Roads'. Things like that just plays into the mindset that roads are for cars and bikes are the issue, it also helps give license to a certain sector of drivers to bring violence into it. I was put into the gutter just the other day because a driver yelled that's I was holding up traffic and when I said how can I hold up traffic as I am traffic he swerved his car across and I hit the gutter, good thing I had a soft landing.

 

[Stingray34]

More hit and run fun times and hi-jinks in sunny, sophisticated Melbourne in the last 24 hours. Lovable larrikins in their jaunty jallopies!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-injured-in-hit-and-run-at-toolern-vale-20151003-gk0k5n.html

I know Stacey M who was the rider hit in this incident, been on many rides with her and she is a capable, confident and courteous rider and to have this happen to her is disgusting.
I spend 15+ hours a week on Melbourne roads and the attitude of some drivers has been getting worse, the local media doesn't help the situation with most articles and TV segments starting with headlines like 'Drivers vs Cyclists' or 'War on the Roads'. Things like that just plays into the mindset that roads are for cars and bikes are the issue, it also helps give license to a certain sector of drivers to bring violence into it. I was put into the gutter just the other day because a driver yelled that's I was holding up traffic and when I said how can I hold up traffic as I am traffic he swerved his car across and I hit the gutter, good thing I had a soft landing.

Hi Stryder,

I'm so sorry this has happened to yourself and Stacey. I hope you're doing OK and not much damage to yourself and bike. I imagine there was no chance of you getting a rego plate number. How is Stacey doing? Have they found the reptile that cowardly run her down? Neck tats are not a good sign with regards to character; at least they are an ID calling card. I agree, the media creates or propagates a confrontational attitude as a way to increase ratings. Our car-centred culture is dangerous and de-humanising - four wheels & motor good, two wheels and lungs bad. More than that, it's just dumb and anachronistic. What are these hoons going to do when all cars are electric or hydrogen-powered?

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

More hit and run fun times and hi-jinks in sunny, sophisticated Melbourne in the last 24 hours. Lovable larrikins in their jaunty jallopies!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-injured-in-hit-and-run-at-toolern-vale-20151003-gk0k5n.html

I know Stacey M who was the rider hit in this incident, been on many rides with her and she is a capable, confident and courteous rider and to have this happen to her is disgusting.
I spend 15+ hours a week on Melbourne roads and the attitude of some drivers has been getting worse, the local media doesn't help the situation with most articles and TV segments starting with headlines like 'Drivers vs Cyclists' or 'War on the Roads'. Things like that just plays into the mindset that roads are for cars and bikes are the issue, it also helps give license to a certain sector of drivers to bring violence into it. I was put into the gutter just the other day because a driver yelled that's I was holding up traffic and when I said how can I hold up traffic as I am traffic he swerved his car across and I hit the gutter, good thing I had a soft landing.

So, you made it more dangerous for other riders by needlessly stoking the fire of this motorist?

I find these attacks on cyclists obscene. The penalties when these motorists are caught are generally jokes. We need harsher penalties and more vigilant monitoring of the roads. That cuts both ways, though. I remember years ago nearly having to go into a ditch because a group ride coming the other way was sprawled across the road and the cars behind them finally became frustrated enough to pass just as I was approaching. I see this all the time, now: poor organization and poor form by cyclists out on the road. You're correct that we have equal right to the road. No one, however, has the right to impede traffic. I stay towards the side of the road on solo rides and I want no part of poorly organized group rides where the "leaders" allow the others to sprawl all across the road. It's dangerous for me, it's dangerous for everyone. It's clear to me that the group ride culture has become more social and the principles of road etiquette have greatly diminished. Here in the States, I suspect 80% of group riders do not even know what a "paceline" is, nevermind how to ride in one.

We should also be looking at what we do to exacerbate this situation, and the absolute worst thing some of us do is to resolutely demand that motorists adjust to us when we could easily move over a slight bit and extend the same accommodation to others that we demand be extended to ourselves.

 

[winkybiker]

I find these attacks on cyclists obscene. The penalties when these motorists are caught are generally jokes. We need harsher penalties and more vigilant monitoring of the roads. That cuts both ways, though. I remember years ago nearly having to go into a ditch because a group ride coming the other way was sprawled across the road and the cars behind them finally became frustrated enough to pass just as I was approaching. I see this all the time, now: poor organization and poor form by cyclists out on the road. You're correct that we have equal right to the road. No one, however, has the right to impede traffic.

Slower vehicles actually do, in general, have the right to impede traffic. There is no minimum speed limit. The ablsolute responsibility for safe overtaking falls on the faster vehicle approaching from behind. There is no obligation to give way to vehicles that are behind you. Unless you are a cyclist. Then it's "*** you, get out of my way".

It does not "cut both ways". Motorists can, and do kill cyclists. The opposite is not true.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

I find these attacks on cyclists obscene. The penalties when these motorists are caught are generally jokes. We need harsher penalties and more vigilant monitoring of the roads. That cuts both ways, though. I remember years ago nearly having to go into a ditch because a group ride coming the other way was sprawled across the road and the cars behind them finally became frustrated enough to pass just as I was approaching. I see this all the time, now: poor organization and poor form by cyclists out on the road. You're correct that we have equal right to the road. No one, however, has the right to impede traffic.

Slower vehicles actually do, in general, have the right to impede traffic. There is no minimum speed limit. The ablsolute responsibility for safe overtaking falls on the faster vehicle approaching from behind. There is no obligation to give way to vehicles that are behind you. Unless you are a cyclist. Then it's "**** you, get out of my way".

It does not "cut both ways". Motorists can, and do kill cyclists. The opposite is not true.

Actually, here in the States, we all have laws that prohibit the impeding of traffic. It is largely left at the discretion of law enforcement what it constitutes in different situations. For instance, law enforcement is increasingly picking up passing lane hogs who impede traffic, now that we have data confirming that these rude drivers make the roads more dangerous.

You are correct that there are a multitude of situations in which you are within your legal rights to be an obnoxious, inconsiderate cad on the road. I would humbly suggest that when the opportunity presents itself to act like an adult and take into consideration the time and needs of others, you should do so. Not just because it's the nice thing to do when all it requires is moving over a couple feet or not riding three abreast down busy roads, but also because it spares the rest of us who ride the unjustified abuse of the motorists you've needlessly peeved.

"It does not 'cut both ways'."

Courtesy does cut both ways. Riding well out in the lane when you could easily and safely move over a couple feet requires nothing of you, which you already know. I've ridden for three decades and understand quite well the difference between putting yourself in a dangerous position on the road versus being obnoxious, and out to make a point. Again, if this type of behavior only had repercussions for you, I would be fine with it. Unfortunately, poor road etiquette increases motorist hostility to the rest of us.

Perhaps this is just a phenomenon in the States, but my impression is that the things that used to be taught in group rides, like road etiquette, simply aren't being taught anymore. Beyond the dangers I've listed, it's just poor riding, anyways. You don't become a competent rider without learning to ride in a paceline. You don't become a competent rider by being an oblivious operator on the road, and, unfortunately, these are the things I witness out on the road with group riders.

 

[Archibald]

More hit and run fun times and hi-jinks in sunny, sophisticated Melbourne in the last 24 hours. Lovable larrikins in their jaunty jallopies!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-injured-in-hit-and-run-at-toolern-vale-20151003-gk0k5n.html

I know Stacey M who was the rider hit in this incident, been on many rides with her and she is a capable, confident and courteous rider and to have this happen to her is disgusting.
I spend 15+ hours a week on Melbourne roads and the attitude of some drivers has been getting worse, the local media doesn't help the situation with most articles and TV segments starting with headlines like 'Drivers vs Cyclists' or 'War on the Roads'. Things like that just plays into the mindset that roads are for cars and bikes are the issue, it also helps give license to a certain sector of drivers to bring violence into it. I was put into the gutter just the other day because a driver yelled that's I was holding up traffic and when I said how can I hold up traffic as I am traffic he swerved his car across and I hit the gutter, good thing I had a soft landing.

so have things improved or gone further backwards since the incident with the Hell Ride several years ago - the one with the elderly fellow dying

 

[winkybiker]

I find these attacks on cyclists obscene. The penalties when these motorists are caught are generally jokes. We need harsher penalties and more vigilant monitoring of the roads. That cuts both ways, though. I remember years ago nearly having to go into a ditch because a group ride coming the other way was sprawled across the road and the cars behind them finally became frustrated enough to pass just as I was approaching. I see this all the time, now: poor organization and poor form by cyclists out on the road. You're correct that we have equal right to the road. No one, however, has the right to impede traffic.

Slower vehicles actually do, in general, have the right to impede traffic. There is no minimum speed limit. The ablsolute responsibility for safe overtaking falls on the faster vehicle approaching from behind. There is no obligation to give way to vehicles that are behind you. Unless you are a cyclist. Then it's "**** you, get out of my way".

It does not "cut both ways". Motorists can, and do kill cyclists. The opposite is not true.

Actually, here in the States, we all have laws that prohibit the impeding of traffic. It is largely left at the discretion of law enforcement what it constitutes in different situations. For instance, law enforcement is increasingly picking up passing lane hogs who impede traffic, now that we have data confirming that these rude drivers make the roads more dangerous.

You are correct that there are a multitude of situations in which you are within your legal rights to be an obnoxious, inconsiderate cad on the road. I would humbly suggest that when the opportunity presents itself to act like an adult and take into consideration the time and needs of others, you should do so. Not just because it's the nice thing to do when all it requires is moving over a couple feet or not riding three abreast down busy roads, but also because it spares the rest of us who ride the unjustified abuse of the motorists you've needlessly peeved.

"It does not 'cut both ways'."

Courtesy does cut both ways. Riding well out in the lane when you could easily and safely move over a couple feet requires nothing of you, which you already know. I've ridden for three decades and understand quite well the difference between putting yourself in a dangerous position on the road versus being obnoxious, and out to make a point. Again, if this type of behavior only had repercussions for you, I would be fine with it. Unfortunately, poor road etiquette increases motorist hostility to the rest of us.

Perhaps this is just a phenomenon in the States, but my impression is that the things that used to be taught in group rides, like road etiquette, simply aren't being taught anymore. Beyond the dangers I've listed, it's just poor riding, anyways. You don't become a competent rider without learning to ride in a paceline. You don't become a competent rider by being an oblivious operator on the road, and, unfortunately, these are the things I witness out on the road with group riders.

It can come down to etiquitte and I try to do my best to be a considerate cyclist. I also see many cyclists behaving appallingly. (I don't buy into the "it was better in the old days" argument, though). But there are also many situations where motorists place their own sense of urgency (and dare I say entitlement?) ahead of my safety. Just what is it that getting behind the wheel does to people to turn them into unsafe, impatient and inconsiderate ar$eho13s? Why should their hurry cost me me my safety? That I am expected to scurry along the edge of the road like a firghtened squirrel just so people can pilot themselves along her majesty's highways without irritation or minor delay that I may cause is deeply offensive.