- Jul 30, 2011
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Without wanting to put the mods to work, that’s how it works with the dominant, unregulated “isms” in the US. People first isn’t a live concept.
Without wanting to put the mods to work, that’s how it works with the dominant, unregulated “isms” in the US. People first isn’t a live concept.
- Oct 5, 2009
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Excuse my French if I seem a bit categorical and pessimistic here.
But the best help you can give yourself and not least your fellow road users out in traffic is to sharpen your senses, your reflexes, your vision, your reactions. Every single day.
My view and observations since the first cars with lane assist came to the consumer market a couple of decades ago with the Nissan Cima, Honda Inspire, Mitsubishi etc., have been that it makes people lethargic faster than they realize and far more than many even realize. In addition, at the same time the smartphone came and today in traffic I feel that it is almost every third person or more you can clearly see their eyes are directed at the phone. And then the increasing impatience.
Of course it is convenient and feels safe when the automatic emergency brake activates itself, but bottom line in the use of your senses you could, just with driving skills from the driving instructor's Schoolyard.
...Unfortunately I ran out of time, more in it, will catch up
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- Aug 13, 2011
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Absolutely people need to be aware and not rely on it, but they are helpful assistance as things occur within a second that you could not see. I brought up those two vehicles as they both have the same; technology, year, luxury, and the more high end models but one was clearly superior to the other when I was safely trying them out. Not because I use them 24/7.
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
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Road trauma has been steadily reducing in recent decades with improved safety built into cars - think airbags, stability / traction control, stronger cars etc. But that trend has leveled out in recent years. An over-reliance on technology for poor driving habits is why, led be more driver distractions - cell phones etc.
- Oct 5, 2009
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I think we all agree. Over-reliance on certain nice-to-have innovations creates lazy patterns. Dangerously lazy patterns.
But it almost seems as if the lemmings can't stand to be told that truth. And that in their super-laziness they can't even get together to disable some of the nanny aids to sharpen their senses. That's bizarre, but what the world has turned into, apparently. And that makes it pretty far from being OK, IMO.
But it almost seems as if the lemmings can't stand to be told that truth. And that in their super-laziness they can't even get together to disable some of the nanny aids to sharpen their senses. That's bizarre, but what the world has turned into, apparently. And that makes it pretty far from being OK, IMO.
- Jul 18, 2010
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I think that is part of the cause of the indifference toward cyclists.
Most people don't like being under stress and will avoid it if they can. With all those safety advances in motorcars in the last half century, motoring is a much more tranquil, less stressful endeavour than it once was. So when a motorist sees a bicyclist on the roadway ahead of them, it would be stress-inducing to acknowledge how exposed and at-risk they are, so they choose either to rationalize that cyclists are every bit as safe as they are, or to ignore their presence altogether.
Furthermore, studies (I don't have the time to look them up and post references just now) have shown that motorists will leave more space when overtaking cyclists who are obviously women, and will leave more space for un-helmeted riders. Which evidences conscious thought on their part, and in some instances supports the theory expressed in Peltzman Effect.
Clearly, motorists have diminished respect for anything they don't fear, and they don't fear anything that doesn't present risk of serious injury to them if they should collide with it. Which is why they habitually overlook cyclists and rarely overlook lorries and motor coaches.
So I would theorize that the safety of the modern motorcar indirectly serves to put cyclists at greater risk because the worst damage we can inflict if/when they collide with us is a dented wing or cracked windscreen.
I don't recall ever having seen one but I would love to see a study of the overtaking habits of motorists who have a close friend or relation who is a bicyclist or motorbiker, because I would conjecture they are more likely to see our lot as beings that will squeal and bleed if injured than someone who thinks of all cyclists as strangers or alien beings.
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Worcester, Worcestershire, England, UK
@mirandajnorris
A cycling club has reported more than 400 instances of poor driving around cyclists so far this year.
The Worcester St Johns Cycling Club (WSJCC) said the reports involved driving dangerously close to cyclists and oncoming vehicles failing to give way when the road is narrowed by parked cars.
The club has been awarded a safety grant from John Campion, West Mercia's police and crime commissioner, to fit helmet or bike-mounted cameras to help capture footage of unsafe driving.
This can be uploaded to the force’s Operation Snap portal.
The grant also funded Pass Pixie fluorescent camera signs, which inform drivers they are being filmed.
Martin Staines, camera organiser for the club, said: "For Worcester St Johns Cycling Club the objective is to help educate drivers on how to drive safely when encountering a group of cyclists, who often ride two abreast to prevent dangerous overtaking.
"West Mercia is saving thousands of pounds by getting witness reports at no cost to the constabulary and riders can now send in a report instead of getting needlessly angry when they are threatened by bad driving."
The club believes Operation Snap is making a difference.
Members say driver behaviour around cyclists appears to be improving in the West Mercia area and can often be worse in other nearby constabulary areas.
Worcester cyclists report 400+ poor driving cases in 2025
By Miranda NorrisReporter@mirandajnorris
A cycling club has reported more than 400 instances of poor driving around cyclists so far this year.
The Worcester St Johns Cycling Club (WSJCC) said the reports involved driving dangerously close to cyclists and oncoming vehicles failing to give way when the road is narrowed by parked cars.
The club has been awarded a safety grant from John Campion, West Mercia's police and crime commissioner, to fit helmet or bike-mounted cameras to help capture footage of unsafe driving.
This can be uploaded to the force’s Operation Snap portal.
The grant also funded Pass Pixie fluorescent camera signs, which inform drivers they are being filmed.
Martin Staines, camera organiser for the club, said: "For Worcester St Johns Cycling Club the objective is to help educate drivers on how to drive safely when encountering a group of cyclists, who often ride two abreast to prevent dangerous overtaking.
"West Mercia is saving thousands of pounds by getting witness reports at no cost to the constabulary and riders can now send in a report instead of getting needlessly angry when they are threatened by bad driving."
The club believes Operation Snap is making a difference.
Members say driver behaviour around cyclists appears to be improving in the West Mercia area and can often be worse in other nearby constabulary areas.
- May 5, 2010
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Maybe the next step should be cars that can detect if the driver is distracted, perhaps with a voice recording by some "sergeant nasty" type.
"Please, keep your eyes on the road."
"PLEASE, keep your eyes on the road!"
"KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD YOU ABSOLUTE MOTHERF*****! DID YOU GET YOUR LICENSE IN AN AUTOMAT? MY BLIND GRANDMOTHER IS A BETTER DRIVER THAN YOU ARE, AND SHE HAS BEEN DEAD FOR 20 YEARS!"
- Jul 30, 2011
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I think more along the lines of Zip Cars that lock up after the reservation expires. If you can’t drive, you can’t drive.
- May 5, 2010
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I'm talking for people who CAN drive. Nothing about driver-less cars.
- Jul 30, 2011
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They aren’t driverless, but they lock on the driver when they haven’t paid for longer. The same could apply to the distracted, incompetent, etc.
- May 5, 2010
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What do you mean; "Haven't paid for longer"? Do you think cars should be on subscription now?
- Jul 30, 2011
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In the post above I wrote “Zip “Car”, these are in start-up euphemism, “shared” short term rentals. One gets membership (rather than going to an office or a lot) and books online for a few hours, a day, etc. If the car is not dropped off and scanned within the “shared” period, it shuts off and locks.
No reason the same couldn’t apply to vehicles that are moving erratically and irresponsibly.
No reason the same couldn’t apply to vehicles that are moving erratically and irresponsibly.
- May 5, 2010
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Yes, at minimum. And then maybe a 10A electrical probe, activated below the seat if no furthee reaction from the driver.
As I wrote, it's already bad enough when driving in my hybrid car, activating all nanny aids, including full self-driven mode and I can easily put my arms in a cross - and first reaction after an ocean of FIFTEEN seconds, the most imperceptible voice and neutral text "please place your hands on the driving wheel" without further notice, NO high alarms WEEOW WEEOW BEEP! BEEP! BEEEEP!!!!
Hence, the most bold headed drivers will just continue driving into the catastrophe.
A nice electrical shock would be in its place at least.
- May 5, 2010
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Oh, after 15 seconds it should definitely already be at the shouty-guy. And it should be some sort of detector that could, well, detect if the driver's eye-movement went outside where the driver had to look - coded in before start - so even if the driver keeps their hand on the driving wheel, but keeps for example looking over towards the passeger, there'd still be an alert.
- Aug 13, 2011
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The two cars I mentioned and others do alert the driver that they’re distracted and need to lay attention to the road, but not in that aggressive of a way. Then Tesla will lock you out of the auto drive and some cases shut off if you keep driving distracted. The person in the story I was talking about found a work around to that and here’s the kicker, he’s suing Tesla for his accident despite is many distraction alerts.
Just another opinion, I use motorcycle as my primary transportation. To the extent that my insurance company, USAA\_Progressive came to my house to do a physical inspection of my odometer reading. I saw online that if I use my vehicle @6000 miles or less I qualify for a discount. Guy was really nice, turned on car, took it for a ride long enough to make odometer go up. I told the guy I was the car and truck more than I drive. Got a laugh. And funny side note.. I use same company for motorcycle insurance and they don't ask for a mileage update ever, just deduct my premium payments..
In my experience the vehicle type or brand is becoming less of a factor.. Instead technology, culture and marketing are the most dangerous factors facing anyone driving American roads. We have companies, commercials and sales people praising all the safety features engineered into vehicles, all the way to self driving, self parking, lane deviation alerts and alarms. I often split lanes on my bicycle and motorcycle, as I pass between vehicles I see people making passionate love to themselves or someone else, using drugs, alcohol, makeup, changing clothes, watching videos on car screen, phone or tablet screen or have open laptop. The amount of activities people are doing while driving other than driving is mind blowing. And it's just getting worse.. I often pass vehicles that smell like a large bale of marijuana is on fire inside the vehicle. If we keep saying, selling and believing that it's ok to do other things while you are driving, people get hurt and killed.. Bikes included.
Tesla's have a fairly hearty gauge sheet metal used in construction and if kicked with Sidi or Giro bike shoes hold up pretty well.
I have heard ( from a friend) that the side view mirror assemblies are very expensive.
Toyota, Lexus and Chevrolet vary in price for side mirrors @$180-505 usd..other auto brands I am sure have similar pricing but since I wasn't part of the repurchase and repair process I don't have pricing.
- Jul 30, 2011
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- Jul 30, 2011
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Rich on many levels.
2025Updated 1:35 p.m. ET
A man on a motor scooter is cruising the wrong way down a Lower Manhattan bike lane, a video shows, when an unmarked police car swerves into his path. The car hits him head on. He is thrown over the hood, lands in the street and loses consciousness.
The man, Delonny Davis, came to as officers handcuffed him, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday in Manhattan federal court. After he was seen by medics and taken to a police precinct, Mr. Davis, now 40, was charged with infractions, including reckless driving.
The officers who hit him on Aug. 28, 2023, were members of a special Police Department unit called the Community Response Team, the suit said. The unit was assigned to respond to quality-of-life complaints like illegal motorbikes and street vendors.
In police and court documents, the officer who drove the car claimed he had been heading straight west on East Second Street and had tried to avoid Mr. Davis, who he said slammed into the vehicle. The surveillance video that captured the crash contradicts that claim.
Video
0:17
Surveillance video provided by Mr. Davis’s lawyers shows him driving the wrong way down a bike lane and colliding with an unmarked police car that swerved into his path. Mr. Davis survived the crash.CreditCredit...Andrew G. Celli Jr. and Wylie Stecklow
In Mr. Davis’s lawsuit, which names as defendants the officers, the city and two police officials who created the unit, he claims the police used excessive force and charged him without justification. He also accuses the officers of lying.
The Police Department said the incident was “under review and the disciplinary process is ongoing.” The city’s Law Department declined to comment.
The suit underscores the culture of the Police Department from 2022 to 2024, when its leaders, backed by Mayor Eric Adams, encouraged officers to use aggressive tactics like high-speed pursuits to stop low-level crimes. Police officials saw motorbikes as a scourge in neighborhoods where residents had been complaining about bikes, ATVs and mopeds speeding down streets, weaving through traffic and endangering pedestrians.
The collision in the East Village occurred during a time in the department when officers were encouraged to crack down on motorists accused of violating even minor traffic laws, according to the lawsuit.
“Officers were told to intentionally drive into, in front of or dangerously near other motor vehicles as a means of restraining their operators,” the lawsuit says.
Commissioner Jessica S. Tisch, who took over the department in November 2024, quickly issued an order forbidding high-speed pursuits, except of drivers who had committed the “most serious and violent crimes.”
According to the suit, Mr. Davis was driving west in a traffic lane when he passed a store where he had meant to have his cellphone repaired. Realizing he had gone too far, he turned and drove the short distance back in the bike lane, the suit says.
When his scooter was hit, Mr. Davis’s head cracked the windshield of the police vehicle, according to the lawsuit. It says that after he regained consciousness, he complained of dizziness as well as pain in his legs, arms, ribs and neck, but the police would not let him go to the hospital.
Mr. Davis’s suit does not dispute that he was driving the wrong way in the bike lane — one of several traffic offenses he was charged with. (He pleaded guilty to operating a motor vehicle without a license.) The lawsuit argues that the infractions did not justify the ramming of his scooter.
“Intentionally cutting off and colliding with plaintiff was a gratuitous use of force that was vastly out of proportion to any danger,” the suit says.
Mr. Davis’s lawyers said in a statement that the video of the episode, a copy of which they provided to The New York Times, was critical to their client’s case.
“Surveillance video is the great equalizer: It shows the truth and — when it’s clear — it settles all disputes,” said the lawyers, Andrew G. Celli Jr. and Wylie Stecklow.
The Community Response Team was established to address low-level infractions with vigor. The team, whose members wore dark polo shirts and khaki pants and rode in unmarked cars, became known for its aggressive approach, which was celebrated by Mr. Adams and some department leaders even as other officials grew alarmed.
In July 2023, The City reported that the unit had contributed to a nearly 600 percent increase in high-speed chases, with some resulting in serious injuries and even two deaths.
John Chell, then the department’s chief of patrol, was unapologetic.
“People thinking they can take off on us? Those days are over,” he said at a news conference that month.
A November 2024 report by the city’s Department of Investigation faulted the team for its lack of transparency. The report said there were no written policies or procedures guiding the unit, or even requirements that officers complete specialized training before joining. The Police Department accepted most of the report’s recommendations.
In March 2025, about three months after Ms. Tisch became commissioner, she told the City Council that the department was moving away from the Community Response Team model and instead creating “quality-of-life” teams that would operate out of precincts and be overseen by commanders there.
2025Updated 1:35 p.m. ET
A man on a motor scooter is cruising the wrong way down a Lower Manhattan bike lane, a video shows, when an unmarked police car swerves into his path. The car hits him head on. He is thrown over the hood, lands in the street and loses consciousness.
The man, Delonny Davis, came to as officers handcuffed him, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday in Manhattan federal court. After he was seen by medics and taken to a police precinct, Mr. Davis, now 40, was charged with infractions, including reckless driving.
The officers who hit him on Aug. 28, 2023, were members of a special Police Department unit called the Community Response Team, the suit said. The unit was assigned to respond to quality-of-life complaints like illegal motorbikes and street vendors.
In police and court documents, the officer who drove the car claimed he had been heading straight west on East Second Street and had tried to avoid Mr. Davis, who he said slammed into the vehicle. The surveillance video that captured the crash contradicts that claim.
Video
0:17
Surveillance video provided by Mr. Davis’s lawyers shows him driving the wrong way down a bike lane and colliding with an unmarked police car that swerved into his path. Mr. Davis survived the crash.CreditCredit...Andrew G. Celli Jr. and Wylie Stecklow
In Mr. Davis’s lawsuit, which names as defendants the officers, the city and two police officials who created the unit, he claims the police used excessive force and charged him without justification. He also accuses the officers of lying.
The Police Department said the incident was “under review and the disciplinary process is ongoing.” The city’s Law Department declined to comment.
The suit underscores the culture of the Police Department from 2022 to 2024, when its leaders, backed by Mayor Eric Adams, encouraged officers to use aggressive tactics like high-speed pursuits to stop low-level crimes. Police officials saw motorbikes as a scourge in neighborhoods where residents had been complaining about bikes, ATVs and mopeds speeding down streets, weaving through traffic and endangering pedestrians.
The collision in the East Village occurred during a time in the department when officers were encouraged to crack down on motorists accused of violating even minor traffic laws, according to the lawsuit.
“Officers were told to intentionally drive into, in front of or dangerously near other motor vehicles as a means of restraining their operators,” the lawsuit says.
Commissioner Jessica S. Tisch, who took over the department in November 2024, quickly issued an order forbidding high-speed pursuits, except of drivers who had committed the “most serious and violent crimes.”
According to the suit, Mr. Davis was driving west in a traffic lane when he passed a store where he had meant to have his cellphone repaired. Realizing he had gone too far, he turned and drove the short distance back in the bike lane, the suit says.
When his scooter was hit, Mr. Davis’s head cracked the windshield of the police vehicle, according to the lawsuit. It says that after he regained consciousness, he complained of dizziness as well as pain in his legs, arms, ribs and neck, but the police would not let him go to the hospital.
Mr. Davis’s suit does not dispute that he was driving the wrong way in the bike lane — one of several traffic offenses he was charged with. (He pleaded guilty to operating a motor vehicle without a license.) The lawsuit argues that the infractions did not justify the ramming of his scooter.
“Intentionally cutting off and colliding with plaintiff was a gratuitous use of force that was vastly out of proportion to any danger,” the suit says.
Mr. Davis’s lawyers said in a statement that the video of the episode, a copy of which they provided to The New York Times, was critical to their client’s case.
“Surveillance video is the great equalizer: It shows the truth and — when it’s clear — it settles all disputes,” said the lawyers, Andrew G. Celli Jr. and Wylie Stecklow.
The Community Response Team was established to address low-level infractions with vigor. The team, whose members wore dark polo shirts and khaki pants and rode in unmarked cars, became known for its aggressive approach, which was celebrated by Mr. Adams and some department leaders even as other officials grew alarmed.
In July 2023, The City reported that the unit had contributed to a nearly 600 percent increase in high-speed chases, with some resulting in serious injuries and even two deaths.
John Chell, then the department’s chief of patrol, was unapologetic.
“People thinking they can take off on us? Those days are over,” he said at a news conference that month.
A November 2024 report by the city’s Department of Investigation faulted the team for its lack of transparency. The report said there were no written policies or procedures guiding the unit, or even requirements that officers complete specialized training before joining. The Police Department accepted most of the report’s recommendations.
In March 2025, about three months after Ms. Tisch became commissioner, she told the City Council that the department was moving away from the Community Response Team model and instead creating “quality-of-life” teams that would operate out of precincts and be overseen by commanders there.
Well ime they dont. And i wouldn't bother with those studies anyway as I think they were seriously flawed in their completely unscientific analysis of the issue at hand, and it annoys me they get cited as almost scientific fact on the subject.
The guy who did the study literally just wore a wig for i believe only one ride, might have been one set of rides but it wasnt like a long detailed repeatable study, but decided anyway that because people passed him less closely those times subjectively, so not even measured, it proved women were given more space.
Even though he never ran a control, and never stopped the motorists at any time to actually ask them why they left the space they did in comparison or why they didn't when he was wigless.
Unless you know why people do or dont give space, you cannot assume their reasons for doing so.
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The argument for unhelmeted riders, however long ago that was, had to do with drivers tending to keep riders a bit more humanized and less abstracted. As I recall they (the studies) were fairly minimal, arbitrary in number and not statistically significant.
Negligence aside, and passing too close, these days there’s the current backlash aspect of drivers who target cyclists with aggressive turns and generally not yielding.
Negligence aside, and passing too close, these days there’s the current backlash aspect of drivers who target cyclists with aggressive turns and generally not yielding.
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