Dumoulin.

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

Maybe if I say I hate the Dutch while claiming Tom is clean I can get some credit?

You guys have Oliveiro so that is just fine BM....

Jesus christ, chauvinism really is stupid. Good thing no one has ever been able to say I am one. An ugly *** that chauvinism.

 

[BigMac]

I agree, chauvinism is stupid. I don't think Jeff is one, though.

 

[classicomano]

The hateorade is certainly strong in this thread. Im now almost hoping Dumoulin will fade in the next stages just to calm you people down. But im sure even then you will just explain it that his pre-Vuelta EPO cycle has worn off or some other stupid sh ite.

Never change Clinic Nostradamus 12.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

The hateorade is certainly strong in this thread. Im now almost hoping Dumoulin will fade in the next stages just to calm you people down. But im sure even then you will just explain it that his pre-Vuelta EPO cycle has worn off or some other stupid sh ite.

Never change Clinic Nostradamus 12.

Calm your chauvinism and enjoy.

Just a tip.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

The hateorade is certainly strong in this thread. Im now almost hoping Dumoulin will fade in the next stages just to calm you people down. But im sure even then you will just explain it that his pre-Vuelta EPO cycle has worn off or some other stupid sh ite.

Never change Clinic Nostradamus 12.

Truly we are not worthy of such insight and clarity of thought.

Pray tell, how should we seek your permission to post? Is there a form we can fill out before waiting in anticipation of your divine blessings on our subsequent posts?

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

If Dumoulin wouldn't have been Dutch, Jeff, would you defend him so vigorously?
Or that blonde Dutch sprinter in the athletics thread?

You know Jagartrott. If I hadnt listed that I am from Holland, nobody would call me out on that either. I am not defending TD. I am against dumb arguments. If you think Dumoulin is not natural, hey be my guest. You wont see me quote those posts.

Dumoulin is a '90 born and became proffesional at a very early age. Most dont even turn pro at age 23. TD is 24 and soon 25. If I read stuff that he has never done anything special in a GT and suddenly now he's good, that he's built like Miguel Indurain and whatever more. Than I can only say, please go away and choose another sport because you know nothing about cycling. It seems like there a bunch of people here, who just started watching cycling in this new decade.

I'm not talking about Dumoulin as such, I'm talking about nationalistic feelings possibly affecting judgement.
I read through the athletics thread, and I saw about 3-4 people defending the blonde sprinter, 3 of which were Dutch. I know you cannot answer the question 'would you do the same if she were Russian', but you might want to ask your self if you really are as rational as you claim/think you are.[/quote]Well again. Obviously being Dutch, I am more willing to spend my time to defend comments I do not agree with when its Dutch related. I could do the same with others but a day has 24 hrs only.

Saying that 3-4 people are defending the blonde sprinter, while 3 were Dutch is just as biased as you think I am.
This is the clinic we are in. Very few have something positive to say here and those who have, might have the same nationality as the subject.

Perhaps for the 3rd time, I must repeat that there's no way, I am close to convinced that either isnt cheating. I follow swimming, athletics, football and cycling since early 80s and have seen enough. Things like the data from Antoine Vayer, that's interesting to me. Thats something I can deal with.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":kmw4waze] Very few have something positive to say here and those who have, might have the same nationality as the subject.
[/quote]

It's almost a dead set certainty.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

The hateorade is certainly strong in this thread. Im now almost hoping Dumoulin will fade in the next stages just to calm you people down. But im sure even then you will just explain it that his pre-Vuelta EPO cycle has worn off or some other stupid sh ite.

Never change Clinic Nostradamus 12.

As long as the culture to dope is part of the fabric of the sport i think we can safely assume there will always be 12 men and women true to the clinic.........

As long as the testing is a joke and not independent nor properly funded...

As long as the doctors in the sport are known doping enablers......

As long as the DS who mostly are former dopers....

As long as the there are owners like Och, Rihs, Tinkov, Vaughters, Lefevre, Vino.....

As long as the omerta exists..

etc etc

 

[Texeng]

Re:

The hateorade is certainly strong in this thread. Im now almost hoping Dumoulin will fade in the next stages just to calm you people down. But im sure even then you will just explain it that his pre-Vuelta EPO cycle has worn off or some other stupid sh ite.

Never change Clinic Nostradamus 12.

Well it sort of goes with the territory. If someone wins in any way deemed unusual or exceptional, a thread will pop up here. Early days for Dumoulin yet in terms of thread content. The GT thread had more posts than Dumoulin and he never even won a stage in the TdF

 

[Al Lesklar]

I guess that, per the clinicians, we now have the Dumoulin line: anyone behind Tom Dumoulin on a climb must be cleans, QED.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I guess that, per the clinicians, we now have the Dumoulin line: anyone behind Tom Dumoulin on a climb must be cleans, QED.

Nope.

That line of thought has been debunked plenty.

 

[Al Lesklar]

Re: Re:

I guess that, per the clinicians, we now have the Dumoulin line: anyone behind Tom Dumoulin on a climb must be cleans, QED.

Nope.

That line of thought has been debunked plenty.

The arguments for an unclean TD that have been advanced in this forum boil down to: he rode faster than competitors who should have dropped him. Counterarguments just get the back of the hand.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Oh goodie another 12 post poster from 2012 who only posts snark in the clinic.

Seems legit.

 

[Aapjes]

Re: Re:

I'm not talking about Dumoulin as such, I'm talking about nationalistic feelings possibly affecting judgement.
I read through the athletics thread, and I saw about 3-4 people defending the blonde sprinter, 3 of which were Dutch.

I'm one of those, yet I never claimed she is clean. Just that I don't see anything that wouldn't apply to any other athlete at the same level. I admit that I don't go out of my way to defend any athlete/cyclist, but that is not just nationalism, but also because I know a lot more about Dutch athletes. There are also Dutch athletes that I think or know are doping.

I mostly corrected false information about 'the blonde sprinter.' Facts aren't nationalist.

I know you cannot answer the question 'would you do the same if she were Russian', but you might want to ask your self if you really are as rational as you claim/think you are.

Come on, there is a ton of evidence for a country-wide doping program in Russia. There is no way that the same is true in Holland.

This kind of nonsense by supposedly 'non-nationalist' posters is exactly why these attacks on supposed 'blinded through nationalism' posters is so silly. The same posters making these attacks say the stupidest things.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1xutcylu]
Perhaps for the 3rd time, I must repeat that there's no way, I am close to convinced that either isnt cheating. I follow swimming, athletics, football and cycling since early 80s and have seen enough. Things like the data from Antoine Vayer, that's interesting to me. Thats something I can deal with.[/quote]Fair enough, but, how do you interpret data from Vayer? I always say 'who is doing what, where and when', that logic seems the right one time after time. When you add 'how' to the Four W's you often get the right conclusion.

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

Truly we are not worthy of such insight and clarity of thought.

Pray tell, how should we seek your permission to post? Is there a form we can fill out before waiting in anticipation of your divine blessings on our subsequent posts?

Dude how high were you when you posted this, haha.

Lets see how Tom fares today, we might be looking at another 5 pages before the day is over.

 

[bebellion2]

Strange guy this one, hope the dutch don't mind me saying that he seems a bit arrogant on and off the bike.

He definitely didn't tt-d up to his stage win, he was attacking like crazy and no matter how well prepared a gc guy he is, no gc guys are able to do that. Reminded me of the arrogance of Riis in 96 and sometimes Armstrong. Then after a stage the eurosport commentator gave his hand to shake and he didn't accept it, looking in another direction while the guy was talking to him. Weird. When he lost his jersey the only thing he said that he was tired because of some chasing he had to do on the flat. So by then he expected to perform much better. And the statements he gave before, that he was surprised by his own performance, come on. These are pros, I'm an amateur and even I cannot surprise myself.

Too bad his competitors are sub-par in this part of the year so we cannot make proper comparisons. Except Aru. Doped or not, I expect a good fight, how much time Aru can make on him before the TT, which Dumoulin will probably rip to pieces now that Froome is gone.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You can say a lot about Dumoulin but one thing is for sure, he is not arrogant.

 

[bebellion2]

I take it back then probably I'm just too sensitive.

I also take back the sub-par competitors. Maybe there's a level playing field after all What a finish.

 

[BigMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ_hDx6Xcfg

 

[classicomano]

Major Tom seems to be fading just a little bit, I think Astana is gonna stick the knife in him soon and really start twisting it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

They should, Aru lost 2.5 minutes to Conti at the Giro TT. For 20 K more. Conti vs Dumou on a TT bike is a world of difference though...

Tom is going to win this Vuelta.

 

["Jeff"]

There are still 3 more mountain stages left. Right now Dumoulin is 0,49 sec behind.

I dont see how he is able to win, just because of a 38 km TT. I am sure he's aiming for the podium.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

They should, Aru lost 2.5 minutes to Conti at the Giro TT. For 20 K more. Conti vs Dumou on a TT bike is a world of difference though...

Tom is going to win this Vuelta.

He lost 2.5 minutes in 60km and he was ill. Contador in a GT is a superb TTer, there are not many who are better. Dumoulin I would normally rate higher than Contador even in a GT, but he will have to dig deep in the coming two stages. I don't think Aru will lose more than 2 minutes.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Plus defending in the mountains
may wreck TD for the ITT
even though its post restday