(Dutch Beer Race) Amstel Gold Race 2021, 216.7k. Sunday.

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Pick the winner.

  • Pidcock / Kwiatkowski

    Votes: 9 11.3%
  • Bagioli / Vansevenant / Alaphilippe

    Votes: 10 12.5%
  • Schachmann / Schelling

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • van Aert / Roglic

    Votes: 33 41.3%
  • Valverde

    Votes: 5 6.3%
  • Hirschi

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Fuglsang

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Matthews

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Hindsgaul Madsen

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • All these choices are ridiculous, I'm making my ballot invalid.

    Votes: 12 15.0%

  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
And now Roglic is accused by some of having had a motor during the Amstel Gold Race. Seen the images after his mechanical breakdown.
A rider turns his pedal with his hand, likely trying to get the chain on or to switch a stuck gear. And after somebody decides OK lets cut the video at this point and as the new video starts with a wheel spinning, surely a motor installed.

C'mon.
 
A rider turns his pedal with his hand, likely trying to get the chain on or to switch a stuck gear. And after somebody decides OK lets cut the video at this point and as the new video starts with a wheel spinning, surely a motor installed.

C'mon.
Correct. But normally, after one or two seconds, the pedals should stop turning. And they didn't, till Roglic went with his hand to his handlebar. Then, suddenly, the pedals stopped turning. We've seen those kinds of pictures a few times, involving other riders. With an explanation afterwards. But never convincing.
 
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Correct. But normally, after one or two seconds, the pedals should stop turning. And they didn't, till Roglic went with his hand to his handlebar. Then, suddenly, the pedals stopped turning. We've seen those kinds of pictures a few times, involving other riders. With an explanation afterwards. But never convincing.
The pedals stop turning when he drops the bike on the ground.
 
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Correct. But normally, after one or two seconds, the pedals should stop turning. And they didn't, till Roglic went with his hand to his handlebar. Then, suddenly, the pedals stopped turning. We've seen those kinds of pictures a few times, involving other riders. With an explanation afterwards. But never convincing.
I see, there is more to it than that. I have seen some heavily edited video, on how the back wheel is spinning and somebody insinuating surely that has to be the proof. Then i watched the whole video, where Roglič used his hands to spin the wheel and just disregarded the insinuation as being a bad joke. The video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeConaZZ8UI


Now i see there is more to it. Potentially problematic parts being:

  • Back wheel is spinning.
  • Pedals are spinning.
  • Roglič is doing something around the handlebars.
First of all there was a mechanical involved or Roglič wouldn't had have changed the bike or be fiddlling with the bike in such way in the first place.

Back wheel is spinning.

Pushing on the pedals with your hand will do that. Perfectly normal.

Pedals are spinning.

This is what likely mechanical issue was all about. Stuck gear or chain issues would likely be resolvable on spot, instead something likely got broken in the rear hub. Such issues can cause "ghost pedaling":

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcm3FL18rqc


An article describing things from a more technical side:


Now good thing we talked about this more in depth, as to me that says QA will need to improve on Cervélo's side. As if a mechanical part failure, costing a few euros, would happen on some important stage, that would be inexcusable. Or if Roglič needs a bit stronger bike, for the bike to not fall apart, when pushing on the pedals, then they need to take care of that too.

All in all they need to inspect the mechanical failure involved, understand on why it did happen, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Roglič is doing something around the handlebars.

Didn't put too much thought into this but highly likely, as a last resort, Roglič tried to use a gear shift (Di2 groupset) to see if that could fix the issue or make a difference.




That didn't fix the issue as something got broken in the rear hub and caused all this drama.

P.S. If some still want to believe otherwise, then after La Flèche Wallonne of Liège–Bastogne–Liège feel free to take apart the crankset for inspection. Just don't broke the bike this time, like the last time it happened, when Zeeman got expelled.
 
P.S. If some still want to believe otherwise, then after La Flèche Wallonne of Liège–Bastogne–Liège feel free to take apart the crankset for inspection. Just don't broke the bike this time, like the last time it happened, when Zeeman got expelled.
And it took the commissaires hours to finally declare Roglic hadn't used an illegal bike (in the Col de la Loze incident during last year's Tour). But social media was awash with accusations & lies.

Honestly, the people peddling this garbage are intellectual midgets grasping at clicks & spewing B.S. for self-aggrandizing purposes. People unfortunately see what they want to see (& especially since the US Postal stuff, denials don't work anymore & Vayer & co know that) so they will continue to spew the same nonsense (especially for example in the event Roglic does his patented 500 meter stomp in the Flèche Wallonne tomorrow).
 
But OK, i can understand it this time, as the pedals were spinning. That needed to get explained, on why.

P.S. Then again if there was honest attempt behind it, why oh why would you first need to make a dodgy video, that leaves little room for interpretation. Like look, right there, it's in the bag.
 
Of course not. I'm actually thankful any race takes place in COVID times, whatever the route.
Exactly.

How was the race dull? The last 60-70km or so there were non-stop attacks, none of them fruitful, but it wasn't just a peloton riding pace. Every hill in the last laps you saw them properly suffer, big names were riding against eachother, the world champion cracking, sensational finish. And that on an "easy" improvised parcours.
This is what I find tedious. But it's been this way forever, there's always some problem with the tactics or the course. In 2019 it was "It was boring until the last 5k". My other favorite is "why didn't they attack when [insert rider name] went"? There was no reasonable explanation of why it was "dull".

I do agree with Red Rick that my complaining about the complaining won't change it. Sometimes, very rarely, it gets silly enough to say something. Sunday was a case in point. Feel free to return to your daily programming.
 
I see, there is more to it than that. I have seen some heavily edited video, on how the back wheel is spinning and somebody insinuating surely that has to be the proof. Then i watched the whole video, where Roglič used his hands to spin the wheel and just disregarded the insinuation as being a bad joke. The video:

Now i see there is more to it. Potentially problematic parts being:
  • Back wheel is spinning.
  • Pedals are spinning.
  • Roglič is doing something around the handlebars.
First of all there was a mechanical involved or Roglič wouldn't had have changed the bike or be fiddlling with the bike in such way in the first place.

...

Roglič is doing something around the handlebars.

Didn't put too much thought into this but highly likely, as a last resort, Roglič tried to use a gear shift (Di2 groupset) to see if that could fix the issue or make a difference.
Yeah, the only thing that seemed odd to me was the pinch or tap on the bar end. But I think you nailed it with the Di2 assessment. Certainly it's by orders of magnitude the most likely explanation.
 
Reactions: CyclistAbi
...I'll just leave this here...It proves that the photo finish was in the wrong place...but it doesn't prove that Pidcock won...however surely now the result has to be in major doubt and be looked at again by the UCI?
Do we know where the photo finishes are in every other race? What I understand is that it's never on the black line because the contrast between the tire and the line isn't enough for it to work, so they always have it in some part of the white line.

It seems to me we're just seeing an artifact of an incredibly close race. I think Pidcock probably eked out the tiniest win at the black line, but he clearly didn't where the photo finish was set. It's not great, but it's not a scandal. I would guess they'll take more care to move it as close to the black line as they can in the future, but the photo finish is the official finish. It's over, they're not looking at it again.
 
The way i understand it is if it comes down to a photo finish, then photo finish decision is final. That is if the black line would be positioned a couple of cm ahead, the result from photo finish would still stand.

As for determining the possible misalignment, just judging from the side images from a TV. I am not all that sure we can take input from what likely was a wide angle lens camera and believe there was no distortion involved. And start mapping all the data as being 1:1.
 
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It could be photo finish got it wrong on this race, but this picture doesn't prove that. This picture was taken like a light year away, from where the photo finish took place.
Your first statement, contrary to your further affirmations because based on the very angle of this photo and the distance from which it was taken, now seems likely. If the black line is the real finish, then this photo demonstrates Pidcock is clearly first.
 
Your first statement, contrary to your further affirmations because based on the very angle of this photo and the distance from which it was taken, now seems likely. If the black line is the real finish, then this photo demonstrates Pidcock is clearly first.
Pidcock was clearly gaining momentum on van Aert and that is what the mentioned picture shows. As for what the situation was, half a wheel back, this picture doesn't show that.

What is left open is if photo finish system and the start of the black line where perfectly aligned. It is hard to judge from TV camera, but lets say photo finish system and that start of the black line where not perfectly aligned. This is for sure something organizers will likely pay more attention to from now on.

Still, as far as i understand it in that case van Aert would still be declared the winner, as the decision came down to a photo finish and the photo finish decision is final. Regardless if the start of the black line on the road was perfectly aligned with the photo finish system or not.
 
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Pidcock was clearly gaining momentum on van Aert and that is what the mentioned picture shows. As for what the situation was, half a wheel back, this picture doesn't show that.

What is left open is if photo finish system and the start of the black line where perfectly aligned. It is hard to judge from TV camera, but lets say photo finish system and that start of the black line where not perfectly aligned. This is for sure something organizers will likely pay more attention to from now on.

Still, as far as i understand it in that case van Aert would still be declared the winner, as the decision came down to a photo finish and the photo finish decision is final. Regardless if the start of the black line on the road was perfectly aligned with the photo finish system or not.
Sure he is declared the winner based on the photo finish, which evidently is no longer up for scrutiny now, even if it seems spurious. And I contest what you claim the picture "doesn't show." For Van Aert's wheel hasn't yet crossed the black line (not even in the air), whereas Pidcock's is clearly beyond it.
 
This article analyzes the finish, taking into account the Flamme Rouge tweets, concluding that WvA is the rightful winner, basically for the same reason CyclistAbi mentioned above.

On the AGR finish it's certainly close enough for TV pics to fool the viewer. However for the womens race last wedesday no amount of technical explanation is going to explain how Vollering wasn't given the win - it wasn't even particularly close. Given that blunder just a few days earlier, it doesn't inspire much confidence that the AGR finish would have been correct either
 
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