Dwars Door Vlaanderen

[therhodeo]

Re: Re:

People are massively overrating Gilbert because he was allowed to ride off the front in some big races last year.

People are rating him highly because, much like last season, Gilbert has seemed as dominant as a rider can be without actually winning. This is strange to say but so far he has been shaping races, taking control and working for teammates. Other than Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde, his buildup has been very similar to last year. So it is safe to assume he is will do well in De Ronde.

As someone who rides and races myself this was me when Gilbert chased that late attack at Wevelgem after having been on the front with the group strung out.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

How do you 'hide' on a climb? Not much benefit to drafting on the climbs of Liege.

Haven't been following the LBLs of the last years?
The winner doesn't make his move or show his face until one km to go. Same has been true for Flèche W for all eternity. When has that been so in Flanders, Roubaix?

But what has hiding got to do with anything? You have to work just as hard on most of the Liege climbs whether you are in a group or not. You are using 'hiding' as a pejorative term, but not being visible on 10% climbs doesn't mean that the riders are not working really hard to stay at the front of the race. And using energy to execute the tactics to battle for position before each climb and each descent.

Less entertaining does not mean that there is less strategy, or that you don't need to ride intelligently to win.

C'mon, you can't tell fleche is hard when 60 riders hit the mur de huy or 40 riders sprint to win liege

Even Milan-San Remo is raced harder lol.

The days of Bartoli, Vandenbroucke and Bettini are over. The current peloton of those races lack panache and talent.

 

[Bardamu]

You don't have to go that far back. LBL editions with the Schleck brothers, Gilbert, Nibali, Vino, Valverde in the front were amazing.

 

[therhodeo]

Re:

You don't have to go that far back. LBL editions with the Schleck brothers, Gilbert, Nibali, Vino, Valverde in the front were amazing.

It just feels weird that those 2 were involved in anything that had more attacks.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

How do you 'hide' on a climb? Not much benefit to drafting on the climbs of Liege.

Haven't been following the LBLs of the last years?
The winner doesn't make his move or show his face until one km to go. Same has been true for Flèche W for all eternity. When has that been so in Flanders, Roubaix?

But what has hiding got to do with anything? You have to work just as hard on most of the Liege climbs whether you are in a group or not. You are using 'hiding' as a pejorative term, but not being visible on 10% climbs doesn't mean that the riders are not working really hard to stay at the front of the race. And using energy to execute the tactics to battle for position before each climb and each descent.

Less entertaining does not mean that there is less strategy, or that you don't need to ride intelligently to win.

C'mon, you can't tell fleche is hard when 60 riders hit the mur de huy or 40 riders sprint to win liege

I think it's a very hard race. Boring, but still very challenging. It's just different race dynamics than the cobbled classics, because the best riders don't have the rouleur skills to go early these days, with such strong domestiques. So it turns into a gradual war of attrition instead.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

How do you 'hide' on a climb? Not much benefit to drafting on the climbs of Liege.

Haven't been following the LBLs of the last years?
The winner doesn't make his move or show his face until one km to go. Same has been true for Flèche W for all eternity. When has that been so in Flanders, Roubaix?

But what has hiding got to do with anything? You have to work just as hard on most of the Liege climbs whether you are in a group or not. You are using 'hiding' as a pejorative term, but not being visible on 10% climbs doesn't mean that the riders are not working really hard to stay at the front of the race. And using energy to execute the tactics to battle for position before each climb and each descent.

Less entertaining does not mean that there is less strategy, or that you don't need to ride intelligently to win.

C'mon, you can't tell fleche is hard when 60 riders hit the mur de huy or 40 riders sprint to win liege

I think it's a very hard race. Boring, but still very challenging. It's just different race dynamics than the cobbled classics, because the best riders don't have the rouleur skills to go early these days, with such strong domestiques. So it turns into a gradual war of attrition instead.

I think Flèche Wallone has the big problem of being only a few days before LBL because the riders capable of successfully attacking before the mur are also the guys who have a better shot of doing the same in Liege, which is why they rather save energy. Good luck to Movistar chasing down Nibali, Wellens, and many other riders who can't win by coming to the Mur in the peloton.
Liege Bastogne Liege on the other hand has only been so boring because some riders think they can win by attacking on the last climb every freakin year instead of finally realizing that starting Saint Nicolas together with guys like Valverde, Gerrans and in the future probably Alaphilippe basically means they have already lost. The level of domestiques surely hasn't changed since 2012 and up to that edition LBL has been entertaining almost every year.

In other words, I agree with the people claiming those races aren't very hard, but only because they just aren't ridden hard in the last few years. If you want an example for this compare the Amstel gold race from last year to the ones from the years before. One minor route change which initially seemed to make the race even easier meant the race was ridden incredibly hard and the riders were all over the road with a long way to go.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

You don't have to go that far back. LBL editions with the Schleck brothers, Gilbert, Nibali, Vino, Valverde in the front were amazing.

I have a feeling El Pistoleri isn't gonna think that any race with Valverde in the front were amazing.

---

Great race, I think that more than one saved the legs for sunday. What to say....Vanmarcke and Boasson would lose even against their shadows...

Especially when the sun is on their back...

Hey. That was funny.

---

Lamapert went at the perfect moment.

Teunissen closed a lot of gaps and attacked himself a few times, but maybe too many times. Still a strong sprint for 2nd though. Hopefully they are done sacrificing Teunissen for Kragh, Matthews and E.Theuns all the time and he can finally ride for himself

it really is a bit of a joke that they call Kragh their "leader" for this type of races. He doesn't have a single good result on the cobbles, does he?

No results, no. But I'd say his showing in G-W last year was pretty good.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

this is the difference between hilly classics like and cobbled classics. in cobbled classics you need to be the smartest to win. in hilly you just need to be the strongest

I'll
Take the strongest over that "smart" win any day

Nonsense. In hilly classics you can hide all day and win. In cobbled classics you just can't hide. You have to ride, you have to show your cards early.

this...

This..

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

How do you 'hide' on a climb? Not much benefit to drafting on the climbs of Liege.

Haven't been following the LBLs of the last years?
The winner doesn't make his move or show his face until one km to go. Same has been true for Flèche W for all eternity. When has that been so in Flanders, Roubaix?

Exactly, that's difference between so boring Fleche &LBL in comparison with RVV, PR, and races like today's.
Lampaert, congratulations.. and many thanks.

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

You don't have to go that far back. LBL editions with the Schleck brothers, Gilbert, Nibali, Vino, Valverde in the front were amazing.

It just feels weird that those 2 were involved in anything that had more attacks.

That's a bit unfair specially when you consider that Frank won Amstel going in a long move and that Andy's LIege is probably the most impressive Liege win of the last 10 years at least.

Regarding today's race, I'm very happy to see Lampaert win, he's a real flandrien, built to race these sort of races. Also it's just amusing to see Fabio Baldato talking about how hard it is to ride against Quickstep and all its cards: they could have ridden like this in all the seasons they had both Gilbert but they just choose the easy path of bending to Van Avermaet's wish of being the only leader even if that has been proven to be a wrong strategy every time in the flemish races. I truely appreciate Quickstep for the way they ride, there's gotta to be some management work in sharing leadership with so many riders, giving chances to kids (Jakobsen, Hodeg, Cavagna), up and coming monument winning stars (Lampaert), stars (Gilbert) and also riders not exactly know by their team spirit (Terpstra, Stybar). Everyone seems happy to ride and to see the team winning and that creates a true amazing racing spirit and a team that keeps the true flemish spirit alive. Even if they fail miserably in the monuments it won't be due to lack of attack, failing to take the reigns of the race or riding like morons for a sole leader even if he's not good enough. That's good enough in my book so I'll be rooting for Quickstep next sunday even if I'd be happy to see Vanmarcke, Naesen, NIbali, Trentin, Valgren, Kwiatko, Van Aert or Benoot winning.

 

[Velolover2]

The question is.. how do you make Liege at least half as exciting as cobbled classics? The collective strength of the teams is too great. You can't go solo. Even a handful of riders can't make it to the finish.

Not using Liege as the arriving city? :lol:

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

The question is.. how do you make Liege at least half as exciting as cobbled classics? The collective strength of the teams is too great. You can't go solo. Even a handful of riders can't make it to the finish.

Not using Liege as the arriving city? :lol:

No, the exact opposite. Using liege as the arriving city

 

[Netserk]

Forges as the last climb!

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The question is.. how do you make Liege at least half as exciting as cobbled classics? The collective strength of the teams is too great. You can't go solo. Even a handful of riders can't make it to the finish.

Not using Liege as the arriving city? :lol:

I think Liege can be as exciting as a lot of cobbled classics, even if a largish group arrive together towards the finish. At least if you can appreciate positioning, team work, endurance and a tense finish.

Most cobbled classics are just as predictable these days, but in a different format. A handful of riders go clear, then everyone else behind looks at each other rather than responding and working together. Then a rider gets away in the final 2km and wins, while everyone else looks at each other rather than responding.

I enjoy both - one is like a more subtle chess game with a positional d4 opening. The other is like a game of chicken. Both enjoyable, but very different.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

I hope the weather will the same on Sunday as today.
Despite the fact Kwiato wouldn't be happy...

 

[search]

Re: Re:

Lamapert went at the perfect moment.

Teunissen closed a lot of gaps and attacked himself a few times, but maybe too many times. Still a strong sprint for 2nd though. Hopefully they are done sacrificing Teunissen for Kragh, Matthews and E.Theuns all the time and he can finally ride for himself

it really is a bit of a joke that they call Kragh their "leader" for this type of races. He doesn't have a single good result on the cobbles, does he?

No results, no. But I'd say his showing in G-W last year was pretty good.

yeah, that's true. But I think for a leadership role it's still a bit too early - and maybe it's also too much of a burdon for him. Generally, I don't think strict hierarchy is needed/useful for a team like Sunweb in the cobbled classics

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Fleche will be garbage for the first 199km as long as the finish is on the Mur.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Forges as the last climb!

Link to that old LBL design of yours?

 

[Netserk]

90+% ripped from others in the RDT, the hardest section is from 115km to 65km to go: https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/202657

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Fleche will be garbage for the first 199km as long as the finish is on the Mur.

But that's how it should be isn't it? There should be one classic per year which is the definitive uphill sprint. It's only dull these days because Valverde has been so dominant so there's not much tension - but a course like that definitely should be on the calendar.

 

[Netserk]

The Mur sprint would be better if they ditched Cherave. From the moment of its present, the Mur itself has been much less explosive.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

The Mur sprint would be better if they ditched Cherave. From the moment of its present, the Mur itself has been much less explosive.

It would be better if they ditched the Mur de Huy. Bloody awful climb. Easily the most boring race on the calendar.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Fleche will be garbage for the first 199km as long as the finish is on the Mur.

But that's how it should be isn't it? There should be one classic per year which is the definitive uphill sprint. It's only dull these days because Valverde has been so dominant so there's not much tension - but a course like that definitely should be on the calendar.

Why?

FW never ended in an uphill sprint until 2004.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Not sure why you guys act surprised. He already did well in this race in 2014. It's just a semi-classic with small hills in it, the cobbled sections don't make that much of a difference in this race.

You guys sure love to over-hype anything he does lol.

And he will always have his past against him, so I don't see why everyone cheers him on. Sport will continue to rot if we do.

You sure like to criticise everything he does.

If Valverde went from the gun at Roubaix and held on, Pisti would still find a way to devalue the performance.

Reminds me of Froome's Tour-Vuelta double.

The most random post on this thread

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Fleche will be garbage for the first 199km as long as the finish is on the Mur.

But that's how it should be isn't it? There should be one classic per year which is the definitive uphill sprint. It's only dull these days because Valverde has been so dominant so there's not much tension - but a course like that definitely should be on the calendar.

Why?

FW never ended in an uphill sprint until 2004.

Because it's the most entertaining four minutes of the season. Its well worth sacrificing one race for such guaranteed drama amongst the finest one day racers in the world.