Teams & Riders EF Pro Cycling

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry for the riders and stuff. But sadly enough I have to admit that I'm quite pleased if Vaughters finally disappears from cycling!

The other managers are OK?

I always refer to Bjarne Riis as the cancer of cycling...

Sorry, that nickname has been a registered trademark of Patrick Lefevere for over a decade.

 

[samhocking]

Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

Crowdfunding in not for professional sport or the like.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

Crowdfunding in not for professional sport or the like.

Why can't it be used for that? You shouldn't just make a statement like that without any reasoning to explain it.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

Crowdfunding in not for professional sport or the like.

You can try to crowdfund anything you want, although some platforms only allow crowdfunding for particular types of ends. In practice, I can't see how crowdfunding something relatively niche like a pro cycling team could bring in enough money in two weeks to make a significant difference.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

Crowdfunding in not for professional sport or the like.

The Caterham F1 team tried (and failed) something similar, I think.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry for the riders and stuff. But sadly enough I have to admit that I'm quite pleased if Vaughters finally disappears from cycling!

The other managers are OK?

I always refer to Bjarne Riis as the cancer of cycling...

Sorry, that nickname has been a registered trademark of Patrick Lefevere for over a decade.

Oh, what's wrong with him?

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

The crowd-funding website is supposed to be for charity - Unsure how a professional cycling team fits this definition.

It's crowdfunding in the original sense, nothing to do with any website.

Crowdfunding in not for professional sport or the like.

Plenty of teams have used rich individuals to make up shortfalls in sponsor money. Slipstream have been doing it for years off Doug Ellis, Oleg Tinkoff with Saxo-Tinkoff, BMC with Andy Rihs, Igor Makarov for Katusha, James Murdoch for Team Sky. Without those very wealthy individuals writing cheques because they love the sport, none of those teams would exist for so long. Using crowdfunding would be mostly the same, just funding from fans that love the sport rather than rich individuals. I agree it's not suitable to replace sponsors entirely, but to make up shortfalls in sponsors pulling out or not being found and riders and staff not being redundant, it's not much different to what already happens in all the big teams already and probably smaller teams too.

 

[mrhender]

Will be interesting to see what comes of this.
I think if succesful we may face a crowdfunding season every year. Imagine everytime you open media related to cycling you will be bombarded with financial pressure. Imagine the impact on team public appearance, and all this will/can entail.

Frankly i hope it fails big time.

 

[TrackCynic]

Re:

Will be interesting to see what comes of this.
I think if succesful we may face a crowdfunding season every year. Imagine everytime you open media related to cycling you will be bombarded with financial pressure. Imagine the impact on team public appearance, and all this will/can entail.

Frankly i hope it fails big time.

Pro cycling has been getting warnings about this kind of situation happening for years. You have ASO and TV companies making a ton of money out of the sport, sponsors trying to get ROI, bike manufacturers and brands trying to sell crap, no salary cap (so there is a distorted pay scale), and one or two heavily-funded (Sky) teams that drain the oxygen out of the sport. At the bottom of that pyramid are the poor riders who now do not even know if they can afford to be a pro next year, who they will ride for, and if their team will exist. Not sure what the solution is, but right now it's not fair.

 

[biketheroad]

Re: Cannondale-Drapac

From the cyclingweekly link above:

Aug 27, 2017

"Last night, the team managed by Jonathan Vaughters said the replacement sponsor lined up to replace Cannondale fell through.
Unibet, the online betting website that sponsored a team in the past, was due to replace Cannondale, sources told Cycling Weekly.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/now-literally-racing-jobs-cannondale-riders-react-shock-sponsorship-announcement-348008#W2w2dVszXQEQzjqy.99

Unibet was going to be a replacement for Cannondale. So..Cannondale's pulling out.

 

[carolina]

I think Cannondale wasn't pulling out, they just didn't want to be the main sponsor anymore. The team was going to continue to use their bikes.

 

[samhocking]

Cannondale own a large part of Slipstream Sports the holding company, so Cannondale would have to sell their shares in Slipstream Sports to the next title sponsor I imagine? I don't think this was the plan, Cannondale simply don't want to be title sponsor too from what I understand, but will continue being a backer financially and continue owning shares in Slipstream Sports LLC I assume?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

So is (non-Deadly*) Doug Ellis the owner of Cannondale (the bike manufacturers, as opposed to the team), or anything to do with them? I thought not, as he was involved in Slipstream when they were riding Cervelo bikes (although I suspect bike branding is quite incestuous). Everything I had read seemed to suggest that he had personally been underwriting the gap between costs and sponsors' contributions, and that next year's shortfall was because of his withdrawal, not that of a sponsor. Unibet, if indeed it was them, had been expected to replace Ellis' "anonymous" contribution (Anonymous in that the team wore no reference to it).

But why would Unibet be looking to get involved in pro cycling sponsorship again? Has French law on advertising of betting changed since their last involvement?


* It is a different Doug Ellis from the former Aston Villa owner, isn't it? I had always assumed so, but this article equates the two. It also suggests that Cannondale withdrawing has been on the cards since early June, but Vaughters has been saying that all sponsors remain.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry for the riders and stuff. But sadly enough I have to admit that I'm quite pleased if Vaughters finally disappears from cycling!

The other managers are OK?

I always refer to Bjarne Riis as the cancer of cycling...

Sorry, that nickname has been a registered trademark of Patrick Lefevere for over a decade.

Oh, what's wrong with him?

All the same things Riis is guilty of

 

[Leinster]

Patrick Lefevere won the 1996 Tour de France while clinicked up to the gills?

 

[bigcog]

Re:

So is (non-Deadly*) Doug Ellis the owner of Cannondale (the bike manufacturers, as opposed to the team), or anything to do with them? I thought not, as he was involved in Slipstream when they were riding Cervelo bikes (although I suspect bike branding is quite incestuous). Everything I had read seemed to suggest that he had personally been underwriting the gap between costs and sponsors' contributions, and that next year's shortfall was because of his withdrawal, not that of a sponsor. Unibet, if indeed it was them, had been expected to replace Ellis' "anonymous" contribution (Anonymous in that the team wore no reference to it).

But why would Unibet be looking to get involved in pro cycling sponsorship again? Has French law on advertising of betting changed since their last involvement?


* It is a different Doug Ellis from the former Aston Villa owner, isn't it? I had always assumed so, but this article equates the two. It also suggests that Cannondale withdrawing has been on the cards since early June, but Vaughters has been saying that all sponsors remain.

Is it deadly doug from the vile (bcfc fan term for Aston Villa) ? You are kidding ?

 

[samhocking]

Re:

So is (non-Deadly*) Doug Ellis the owner of Cannondale (the bike manufacturers, as opposed to the team), or anything to do with them? I thought not, as he was involved in Slipstream when they were riding Cervelo bikes (although I suspect bike branding is quite incestuous). Everything I had read seemed to suggest that he had personally been underwriting the gap between costs and sponsors' contributions, and that next year's shortfall was because of his withdrawal, not that of a sponsor. Unibet, if indeed it was them, had been expected to replace Ellis' "anonymous" contribution (Anonymous in that the team wore no reference to it).

But why would Unibet be looking to get involved in pro cycling sponsorship again? Has French law on advertising of betting changed since their last involvement?


* It is a different Doug Ellis from the former Aston Villa owner, isn't it? I had always assumed so, but this article equates the two. It also suggests that Cannondale withdrawing has been on the cards since early June, but Vaughters has been saying that all sponsors remain.

Doug Ellis is the owner of Slipstream Sports LLC, Cannondale is currently the main sponsor who also own shares in Slipstream Sports, but don't want to be title sponsor anymore. Cannondale, Drapac, Oath & POC remain sponsors/partners for 2018 season. I imagine the $7M is what Cannondale pay Slipstream Sports for title sponsorship and where Unibet were going make up the shortfall for 2018. Doug Ellis wasn't personally going to make up the shortfall as he has in the past was how I've understood it anyway, hence the need for another sponsor with Unibet.

 

[Bolder]

Not surprising if true that Cannondale doesn't want to be lead sponsor. They have had financial difficulties in the pst and almost went under a few times. If they are really paying more than $7 million (that amount plus bike sponsorship) I can think of better uses for their marketing dollars. (for example, hire social media experts and more videographers and blast out instagram/fb/snapchat shorts etc...) Remaining as a bike sponsor will give them the same ROI I suspect.

 

[Bolder]

Re: Re:

Will be interesting to see what comes of this.
I think if succesful we may face a crowdfunding season every year. Imagine everytime you open media related to cycling you will be bombarded with financial pressure. Imagine the impact on team public appearance, and all this will/can entail.

Frankly i hope it fails big time.

Pro cycling has been getting warnings about this kind of situation happening for years. You have ASO and TV companies making a ton of money out of the sport, sponsors trying to get ROI, bike manufacturers and brands trying to sell crap, no salary cap (so there is a distorted pay scale), and one or two heavily-funded (Sky) teams that drain the oxygen out of the sport. At the bottom of that pyramid are the poor riders who now do not even know if they can afford to be a pro next year, who they will ride for, and if their team will exist. Not sure what the solution is, but right now it's not fair.

Until the riders refuse to ride it will continue as is. I agree with all your points, however. The only professional sport that I can think of that doesn't exploit participants is US baseball: strong CBA, strong farm teams connected to major league clubs, many possible positions based on skill, relatively low likelihood of career-ending injury. Every other sport (football, US football & basketball, track) basically says to the athletes: this is the deal, take it or leave it. That deal usually includes pressure to take painkillers/PEDs to stay on the field or compete with others, "college sports" that are basically plantations (US football/baseketball) and shady "advisors" who find raw talent in developing countries and take a big cut of their salaries (basketball, soccer)

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

So is (non-Deadly*) Doug Ellis the owner of Cannondale (the bike manufacturers, as opposed to the team), or anything to do with them?


* It is a different Doug Ellis from the former Aston Villa owner, isn't it? I had always assumed so, but this article equates the two. It also suggests that Cannondale withdrawing has been on the cards since early June, but Vaughters has been saying that all sponsors remain.

Is it deadly doug from the vile (bcfc fan term for Aston Villa) ? You are kidding ?

I am saying that I assume it isn't the same guy, but the article from Cyclist.co.uk asserts that they are one and the same. I think it's probably just a lazy journalist: "They're can't be 2 rich Americans with an interest in sport of the same name can there?"

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

So is (non-Deadly*) Doug Ellis the owner of Cannondale (the bike manufacturers, as opposed to the team), or anything to do with them?


* It is a different Doug Ellis from the former Aston Villa owner, isn't it? I had always assumed so, but this article equates the two. It also suggests that Cannondale withdrawing has been on the cards since early June, but Vaughters has been saying that all sponsors remain.

Is it deadly doug from the vile (bcfc fan term for Aston Villa) ? You are kidding ?

I am saying that I assume it isn't the same guy, but the article from Cyclist.co.uk asserts that they are one and the same. I think it's probably just a lazy journalist: "They're can't be 2 rich Americans with an interest in sport of the same name can there?"

It's not the same guy.

 

[shalgo]

Not much support for Woods at the Vuelta today: Villella finished at 11:52 and everyone else was at 17:33.

 

[Anderis]

Curious what do they mean: https://twitter.com/Ride_Argyle/status/902578832695328768

 

[deValtos]

Re:

Curious what do they mean: https://twitter.com/Ride_Argyle/status/902578832695328768

Their kickstarter to get crowdfunding will go live. The exciting new news bit I don't know ...