Effects of coronavirus on professional races

[RedheadDane]

I think they can fit them but they will be crossing over. The teams will have to adjust.

The Rules might also have to adapt, or... be adapted. Say there is a Monument during the final weekend of a stage race, some riders might be needed both during the stage race, and during the Monument. However, normally that wouldn't be allowed...

 

[houtdffan]

Doubt we see the tour

EU considering a travel ban extension through September

https://liveandletsfly.com/eu-travel-ban-extension/

 

[BlueRoads]

Doubt we see the tour

EU considering a travel ban extension through September

https://liveandletsfly.com/eu-travel-ban-extension/

Well... if you take this, could riders and staff not be considered as cross-border-workers?

 

[Koronin]

The TDF and the Vuelta are both owned by ASO, so the TDF will gain precedence in any sane word - I fail to see how you can fit in 3 GT's in a four month period along with the monuments and the raft of other races.

ASO owns la Vuelta but la Vuelta has their organizers who are saying they will not give up their dates for any other race. Also the only way to get 3 GTs into that tight of a window will require the GTs to overlap each other.

 

[houtdffan]

ASO owns la Vuelta but la Vuelta has their organizers who are saying they will not give up their dates for any other race. Also the only way to get 3 GTs into that tight of a window will require the GTs to overlap each other.

it's an ASO race. ASO can force a date change

 

[Koronin]

it's an ASO race. ASO can force a date change

Not according to those who actually organize the race it's self. I also wouldn't be fully surprised if they flat out refuse to accept a later date when they have their dates. I also suspect Spain it's self may refuse to allow racing after September within the countries borders. Because forcing their GT into November then puts their winter races at MAJOR risk for next year. Personally I'd prefer they cancel the entire season than force races that have dates that could be raced to change them. All that does is to show a lack of care about those races and those countries that the races are in. If la Vuelta cannot be raced in it's current date then NO Grand Tour should be allowed to take place.

 

[tobydawq]

Not according to those who actually organize the race it's self. I also wouldn't be fully surprised if they flat out refuse to accept a later date when they have their dates. I also suspect Spain it's self may refuse to allow racing after September within the countries borders. Because forcing their GT into November then puts their winter races at MAJOR risk for next year. Personally I'd prefer they cancel the entire season than force races that have dates that could be raced to change them. All that does is to show a lack of care about those races and those countries that the races are in. If la Vuelta cannot be raced in it's current date then NO Grand Tour should be allowed to take place.

Yeah, imagine that the Mallorcan races would be affected! Better have no Grand Tours at all this year.

 

[Koronin]

Yeah, imagine that the Mallorcan races would be affected! Better have no Grand Tours at all this year.

If they are saying let's move this to November, that isn't a good idea for any of the races for any reason.

It's one thing for auto racing to race to December and start again in February. Just don't make any changes to the cars and it's not a problem. But for other sports you need an off season to allow the athletes time to recover and pushing races past Oct means no real time for the riders to recover. If they can even race by September then it should be what one day races and maybe a few one week races can be moved to those dates. They are saying they won't race the Tour "behind closed doors", well it appears that's the only way to have sports at all until fall and possibly until a vaccine. We've had comments today from Governor Cuomo's press briefing that although some things will start reopening before there is a verified treatment and long before a vaccine that it's highly unlikely there will be mass gatherings before a vaccine happens. That means sports can be played, but without fans.

 

[RedheadDane]

What's Cuomo got to do with this? He isn't in charge of what's happening in France or Spain.
As for riders needing rest; you know it doesn't need to be the same riders who ride the last race of this season, and the first of the next, right?

 

[pastronef]

the Mallorcan races are single day races and every day the teams can change rosters. also, not so many WT teams race Mallorcan races as in the past. go check the 2020 startlist there.

 

[RedheadDane]

the Mallorcan races are single day races and every day the teams can change rosters. also, not so many WT teams race Mallorcan races as in the past. go check the 2020 startlist there.

Uhm... you appear to have forgotten to include the link...

 

[pastronef]

Uhm... you appear to have forgotten to include the link...

didnt even think about it ahah. it´s so automatic for me to check on procyclingstats that I forget others maybe are not used to it
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/deia-trophy/2020/startlist

 

[RedheadDane]

didnt even think about it ahah. it´s so automatic for me to check on procyclingstats that I forget others maybe are not used to it
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/deia-trophy/2020/startlist

Oh, I check PCS all the time.
I also include the link when there's something I want to show people.

 

[Koronin]

What's Cuomo got to do with this? He isn't in charge of what's happening in France or Spain.
As for riders needing rest; you know it doesn't need to be the same riders who ride the last race of this season, and the first of the next, right?

His talking about how to reopen is likely going to be similar in Europe to what NY does to what California does. You can't just reopen, it has to be a slow reopening. Governor Cuomo and Governor Newsom have both said that. My Governor has said similar.

Thus the perfect answer for exactly why the Spanish GT CANNOT be raced in Nov when the majority of Spanish races are raced at the START of the next season. Those ARE the riders who ARE racing those races and you are intentionally hurting them by putting la Vuelta at the end of the season only to start the next season in Spain. Unless of course we just move ALL of the Spanish races to AFTER March so those riders can have an off season.

 

[pastronef]

no, 2020 is so wild that noone will have problems to race Spanish races in February. last 2020 race March 15. next race maybe the TDF end of July of maybe even August. many riders did 8-10 days racing in 2020. teams and riders NEED to race, the whole peloton and the whole pro circus wants and need to race, so some early season Spanish races won´t be a problem. it´s really a non-existent problem. the off-season is now. 4 months: april, may, june, july

 

[Koronin]

no, 2020 is so wild that noone will have problems to race Spanish races in February. last 2020 race March 15. next race maybe the TDF end of July of maybe even August. many riders did 8-10 days racing in 2020. teams and riders NEED to race, the whole peloton and the whole pro circus wants and need to race, so some early season Spanish races won´t be a problem. it´s really a non-existent problem. the off-season is now. 4 months: april, may, june, july

So they are going to race from Aug/Sept of 2020 THROUGH October 2021 without an off season? Or is the new off season April and May and all of those races have to find new dates going forward? It is flat out wrong to force races with current dates to change those dates if they can race on those dates. That literally means any contract given for dates going forward is 100% worthless and no one in their right mind would even consider signing a contract for any specific date and instead just decide what date you want and put the race then and tell the UCI your problem if you don't like when we're racing because you giving out dates means nothing at all. The only actual and worthwhile way to do it is to have races INCLUDING the GT's overlapping each other and to end the season at the end of Oct.

 

[pastronef]

season should end on Nov 1st, if not Nov 15.
so Dec Jan off : 2 months for most riders, even more for those starting at Tirreno preparing for the Giro
ok sauf those racing TDUnder. teams have 30 riders rosters, no WT races from TDUnder until Omloop end of Feb 2021. some WT teams won´t travel to some races if they think they didnt rest enough in those 2 winter months (after not having raced for 4 months in summer) and free-up spots for pro-conti teams.
you make it look like racing WON´T stop at all from August 2020 to end 2021. every rider has his racing plan. they won´t get thrown randomly into races by their teams. teams can also be less than 7 riders. 6 is fine, the more "tired riders" can skip some racing if they tired by the short 2 months offseason

 

[Koronin]

season should end on Nov 1st, if not Nov 15.
so Dec Jan off : 2 months for most riders, even more for those starting at Tirreno preparing for the Giro
ok sauf those racing TDUnder. teams have 30 riders rosters, no WT races from TDUnder until Omloop end of Feb 2021. some WT teams won´t travel to some races if they think they didnt rest enough in those 2 winter months (after not having raced for 4 months in summer) and free-up spots for pro-conti teams.
you make it look like racing WON´T stop at all from August 2020 to end 2021. every rider has his racing plan. they won´t get thrown randomly into races by their teams. teams can also be less than 7 riders. 6 is fine, the more "tired riders" can skip some racing if they tired by the short 2 months offseason

The problem is they want to race the entire Vuelta in Nov meaning it won't end until the end of Nov and that is not fair to anyone.

You're discounting 12 WT teams that go to Valencia which is early February and in later February Vuelta a Andalucia which also draws a large number of WT teams. Maybe those two races should only send invites out to Spanish licensed teams since obviously they aren't respected races they shouldn't respect non Spanish licensed teams. They need two and a half months off. With this horrible idea of a schedule they get exactly 1 month off. By the way they must allow teams to NOT go to the TDU if they don't want to.


Some reports out of Spain are that la Vuelta MIGHT be willing to move their dates by 1 or 2 weeks for a large sum of money, but that they will not move their dates any farther back than September. There is something about September that they will not push it back from there and something about they must finish it in September. They are saying any date change requires a redesign.

 

[Escarabajo]

His talking about how to reopen is likely going to be similar in Europe to what NY does to what California does. You can't just reopen, it has to be a slow reopening. Governor Cuomo and Governor Newsom have both said that. My Governor has said similar.

Thus the perfect answer for exactly why the Spanish GT CANNOT be raced in Nov when the majority of Spanish races are raced at the START of the next season. Those ARE the riders who ARE racing those races and you are intentionally hurting them by putting la Vuelta at the end of the season only to start the next season in Spain. Unless of course we just move ALL of the Spanish races to AFTER March so those riders can have an off season.

Koronin, you are completely missing the point. Nobody, absolutely nobody will care about those races at the start of the season if the option is to salvage the races, the racing season, the GT's, the sponsors, etc, etc. There is no comparison. This is like the end of a war. Any solution will count valid. You just have to measure the trade offs. And I don't think anybody is thinking about giving rest to riders for a season that hasn't even started.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

This would be 3 or 4 month season at most. Would riders really need 3 months off?

Also, the early non-WT races could invite more lower level teams which wouldn't have had the whirlwind compacted season of the World Team. Even in recent normal seasons, European-based ProConti teams rode Hainan (last week of October) and Continental teams rode Fuzhou (mid-November) and still managed to start their following season in later January/early February.

 

[Koronin]

This would be 3 or 4 month season at most. Would riders really need 3 months off?

Also, the early non-WT races could invite more lower level teams which wouldn't have had the whirlwind compacted season of the World Team. Even in recent normal seasons, European-based ProConti teams rode Hainan (last week of October) and Continental teams rode Fuzhou (mid-November) and still managed to start their following season in later January/early February.

I could easily see Valencia and Andalucia not only not invite any WT teams outside of Movistar and Cofidis (sponsorship reasons) and only inviting the Spanish Pro Conti teams and then inviting a ton of Conti teams.
Also La Vuelta is apparently saying they will not hold the race with an end date after Sept. Apparently they are saying either the race ends before Sept 30th or it will not be raced. It also sounds like they are requiring a huge fee to move their dates and are saying that by moving the dates it requires a redesign of the race and they can't start it outside the country like had originally been planned. (I don't think they can race the Giro in Nov). Ending the season at the end of October gives the riders time to recover before the next season starts. 2 extra weeks of racing won't make that much if any difference. Yet 6 extra weeks would make a big difference.

 

[RedheadDane]

Koronin… you're still missing the point that the riders doing (a potentially late) Vuelta could be different riders from those doing the season openers. And even if some riders need to do both; well… not unheard of that riders get to less important races not at 100% in order to slowly get back into the rhythm for the important races.

 

[Koronin]

It's being reported la Vuelta has said that either their race is raced in full and finished by September 30th or there is no Vuelta this year. They are saying it will not be raced after September.
Also everyone is missing the point that if they force the Vuelta in Nov and then force the Spanish calendar to remain in February they are telling Spaniards that their races are basically worthless. It's also a great way to kill off sponsors and an entire potential generation of young athletes. Telling them their races don't matter so why should they care about the sport? We are talking a race in Valencia that has died already once and was only brought back because of two former riders doing all they could to bring it back. It wouldn't take much at all to kill it again. It isn't the only race that is vulnerable to losing sponsorship and thus dying in the early season if something like this is forced.

Let's just forget that and instead let's just schedule races all the way through December and have no off season at all until next Oct. That would be the best solution. Let's make the final race for 2020 end on either Dec 19th or 20th. That should be just fine. Of course it will be different riders racing in Dec than will be racing in Jan. There is obviously no need at all for any off season and by racing through December there is more time to get more races in for 2020. Let's schedule Paris-Roubiax for Dec 20th and maybe we'll get lucky and it can be raced in the snow and be final race of 2020.

The reality is there won't be mass gatherings until a vaccine is found. As they are saying no Tour behind closed doors that means no Tour until there is a vaccine. As far as I am aware only the Tour has said they won't race "behind closed doors". Tomorrow we should get California's plan to reopen their state. Yes California technically has nothing to do with Spain, France or Italy, however it is likely going to be the first truly detailed plan we will see on how anyone in planning on reopening things. Their plan will likely give us some sort of guide as to when any sports may come back. Also sports without fans is much more likely to come back sooner than sports with fans. It's unlikely we get sports with fans before a vaccine is widely available. I believe sports without fans can come back once we have a reliable treatment.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm getting sick of this "if we can't allow people out on the roads or mass gatherings, there will be no race, because cycling is a sport for the people" nonsense, we hear in the media all the time.

Yes, it's for the people, and by far the best way to watch cycling is in front of your TV, goddammit! Just ride, even if you can't allow spectators to watch it!! It would be weird watching empty roadsides, but the reason we watch is not to see silly people running along the riders!

 

[Koronin]

I'm getting sick of this "if we can't allow people out on the roads or mass gatherings, there will be no race, because cycling is a sport for the people" nonsense, we hear in the media all the time.

Yes, it's for the people, and by far the best way to watch cycling is in front of your TV, goddammit! Just ride, even if you can't allow spectators to watch it!! It would be weird watching empty roadsides, but the reason we watch is not to see silly people running along the riders!

My only questioning of having cycling races is that you can't really control crowds and keep the numbers down in some areas. As I said the Tour is the only race I've seen reported as saying they won't race without all the fans at road side. I suspect many of the others would race without fans on the side of the roads. It would be more difficult to control than an arena for obvious reasons. Although you likely will still have people walk out into their own front yards to cheer, which I can't see being an issue. Fingers crossed we have a treatment approved by sometime in early summer and that should allow sports behind closed doors to take place. Now you do have a point that races without fans on the side of the ride may actually be safer for the riders as there won't be the silly people running beside them.