Effects of coronavirus on professional races

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Sporting events have been held for the last 12 months following COVID protocols - These events would not happen if there are too many issues - Martinez is a false positive - He got infected after the Giro but you can still test positive for three months - In many cases a Martinez case has been given the all clear.
These events would still happen if there's enough money involved. Actually they did.
 
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Sporting events have been held for the last 12 months following COVID protocols - These events would not happen if there are too many issues - Martinez is a false positive - He got infected after the Giro but you can still test positive for three months - In many cases a Martinez case has been given the all clear.
I didn't know that. What a bummer to keep testing positive for a fall positive.

Re sporting events - this is true but none of them are on this scale - we're talking about 10s of thousands of people, including corporate sponsors, etc, being involved, and many are traveling on planes with regular travelers whose covid situation is out of their control. I think there's about 90,000 people coming, of course some will be flying in on their private jets, but many are on regular commercial flights. Someone Japanese who was on the same flight as the South African soccer team but had no relation to them tested positive and now they all have to isolate. I think a few of them may also have since tested positive.

The corporate people and their staff aren't supposed to mingle with Japanese residents but some (many?) will anyway. Even if just to go to a convenience store to buy something for instance, or sneak into a souvenir shop or go for a nice dinner somewhere. Not to mention unvaccinated local olympic helpers, etc...

Seeing how easily delta seems to spread, watching the rising numbers of people living here and knowing how unlocked-down our so-called State of Emergency is and how inept our gvt has been in handling things, (not to mention the IOC) and now seeing Olympic-related infections before most people have even arrived, I and many other residents do tend to react with cynicism. Hopefully you are correct, but at this point I can't see it. I'll be most happy if I'm later proved wrong! Hell, I'd buy you a beer one day if you can tell me later I was wrong!
 
China is an interesting case - They've been extremely cautious with COVID which is understandable considering their large population - They had planned to reopen international sporting events from July 2021 which has now been pushed back - It will be interesting to see how they go with the 2022 Winter Olympics in February.
 
WTF... I first thought about some bad joke.. we have one of the lowest infection rates right now and everybody who wants can get a vaccine..
Best to cancel the race until really every single virus worldwide is extinct for good.

Low infection rates and vaccines for all who want it in Germany. What more do you want? Dont dont see that the situation could become any better in the future. I think Germany (amongst a lot of others) has been driven mad by the corona virus more than it effected anyones physical health.
 
Best to cancel the race until really every single virus worldwide is extinct for good.

Low infection rates and vaccines for all who want it in Germany. What more do you want? Dont dont see that the situation could become any better in the future. I think Germany (amongst a lot of others) has been driven mad by the corona virus more than it effected anyones physical health.
Right; well, except for the 91, 736 folks in Germany who died from it?


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases-deaths-tracker.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUyYiZ_tU1Gw5CRWySB4B991qbnr_Ex6I9ijr1JTOYUnNOwu0JA5PF513EbqlufZ0zwzGfDpdnAYMYecZTnKVZLlA_DE6ppIeJgp0OPyQrpMXuDzJnj8nEBfU2qza1KzTkcbo6lOW0s1fdbjToXPGP2HJxJQZ1sNAyIwHRrH8Nxq3OEud-3MAvnqtyQ8AnGkpTIXWCrPLqCB1hOdSZbx266gU-XuhRXTm7jsfLovtbM10UUQSaOSs5tWUs69pcOMcVNbL8J3MjfMn4gLYWCg94PYD3pgjc02bP2KkPegqScFY&referringSource=articleShare

91,736
 
Over 90.000 deaths and strangely not any significant excess mortality in Germany. At the same time it becomes more and more apparent that countries with less strict lockdowns and restrictions fared not any worse. And if u look at the situation in Germany right now corona is pretty much non existent.

If you want to really prevent any possible danger, no matter how insignificant it is, then great, cancel the cyclassics (including all the amateur races), Im pretty such somebody would have gotten into some kind of accident travelling there and maybe even crashed during the event and you might even prevent a handful of infections on top of that.
 
Over 90.000 deaths and strangely not any significant excess mortality in Germany. At the same time it becomes more and more apparent that countries with less strict lockdowns and restrictions fared not any worse. And if u look at the situation in Germany right now corona is pretty much non existent.

If you want to really prevent any possible danger, no matter how insignificant it is, then great, cancel the cyclassics (including all the amateur races), Im pretty such somebody would have gotten into some kind of accident travelling there and maybe even crashed during the event and you might even prevent a handful of infections on top of that.
I don’t think they should be canceling this race or the others—there appears to be very little evidence of outdoor transmission so I don’t know why they don’t differentiate indoor vs outdoor. BUT my main point was to rebut your silly rhetoric that “more people have been driven mad than affected anyone’s physical health.” You have the data on psychiatric admissions, yes? Or maybe you just have trouble tolerating that other people’s feelings are different from yours and you want them to feel differently? Good luck with that.
 
I don’t think they should be canceling this race or the others—there appears to be very little evidence of outdoor transmission so I don’t know why they don’t differentiate indoor vs outdoor. BUT my main point was to rebut your silly rhetoric that “more people have been driven mad than affected anyone’s physical health.” You have the data on psychiatric admissions, yes? Or maybe you just have trouble tolerating that other people’s feelings are different from yours and you want them to feel differently? Good luck with that.
If I have a problem tolerating other opinions Im at least not the only one it seems, I mean just reading your last reply you dont seem to appreciate me stating my opinion very much...

I dont think you can measure affects on mental health with psychiatric addmissions. Damage has been done I have no doubt about that, time will tell. And under "driven mad" I would also include that its seemingly more important to the public to prevent a handful infections than caring about the effects of corona restrictions on e.g. the world hunger.

The World Food Programme estimates that the number of people experiencing crisis-level hunger will rise to 270 million before the end of the year as a result of the pandemic, an 82% increase since 2019. This means between 6,000 and 12,000 people per day could die from hunger linked to the social and economic impacts of the pandemic before the end of the year
That somewhat puts those 90.000 deaths in over 1,5yrs (with or because of Covid) in Germany in perspective. I doubt those 6000-12000 people dying per day are on average 80 years old and have for the vast majority severe comorbidities on top of that.
 
If I have a problem tolerating other opinions Im at least not the only one it seems, I mean just reading your last reply you dont seem to appreciate me stating my opinion very much...

I dont think you can measure affects on mental health with psychiatric addmissions. Damage has been done I have no doubt about that, time will tell. And under "driven mad" I would also include that its seemingly more important to the public to prevent a handful infections than caring about the effects of corona restrictions on e.g. the world hunger.



That somewhat puts those 90.000 deaths in over 1,5yrs (with or because of Covid) in Germany in perspective. I doubt those 6000-12000 people dying per day are on average 80 years old and have for the vast majority severe comorbidities on top of that.
Fair enough; you know the situation there and I really don’t.
 
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Over 90.000 deaths and strangely not any significant excess mortality in Germany. At the same time it becomes more and more apparent that countries with less strict lockdowns and restrictions fared not any worse. And if u look at the situation in Germany right now corona is pretty much non existent.
Not true, in the three covid waves there was significant excess mortality each time, the reason why it "overall" leveled out was because the influenca season was completely nonexistent last winter because of the lockdown (link). Countries with less strict lockdowns (Germany wasn't even that strict) did fare worse (link).
Corona is not "pretty much non existant" right now, the overall numbers are low but they're on the rise and we've seen before how quickly it can accelerate. With only 2/3rds vaccinated there is still a need to keep exponential growth in check even if majority of risk groups are now better protected than a year ago. That doesn't mean that cancelling outdoor events is a must (I think its rubbish).

If I have a problem tolerating other opinions Im at least not the only one it seems, I mean just reading your last reply you dont seem to appreciate me stating my opinion very much...

I dont think you can measure affects on mental health with psychiatric addmissions. Damage has been done I have no doubt about that, time will tell. And under "driven mad" I would also include that its seemingly more important to the public to prevent a handful infections than caring about the effects of corona restrictions on e.g. the world hunger.



That somewhat puts those 90.000 deaths in over 1,5yrs (with or because of Covid) in Germany in perspective. I doubt those 6000-12000 people dying per day are on average 80 years old and have for the vast majority severe comorbidities on top of that.
There has been an undeniable impact on plenty of people's mental health but it's a bit cheap go-to argument for anti-lockdown rhetoric. "Ahh but mental health impact is far bigger than a couple of grannys dying". I agree that it can't be easily quantified but e.g. common arguments of apparent "higher suicide rates" can and have actually been proven not to be accurate. And it's not even a given that mental health situation would be better with no covid containing measures. More people dying, more overloaded hospitals? Great baseline for human's mental well being.
World Hunger is an even worse whataboutism, of course it has gotten worse in a global crisis but what exactly is the better alternative? Let Covid rip through the world and that'll make World Hunger go away?

That being said, I still disagree with cancelling the Cyclassics given the extremly low outdoor transmission and the comparable alternatives that are allowed. 50 people can be indoors in the same room without restrictions but a thinly outstretched crowd on the side of the streets with masks is a risk? Nonsense.
 
Not true, in the three covid waves there was significant excess mortality each time, the reason why it "overall" leveled out was because the influenca season was completely nonexistent last winter because of the lockdown (link). Countries with less strict lockdowns (Germany wasn't even that strict) did fare worse (link).
Corona is not "pretty much non existant" right now, the overall numbers are low but they're on the rise and we've seen before how quickly it can accelerate. With only 2/3rds vaccinated there is still a need to keep exponential growth in check even if majority of risk groups are now better protected than a year ago. That doesn't mean that cancelling outdoor events is a must (I think its rubbish).



There has been an undeniable impact on plenty of people's mental health but it's a bit cheap go-to argument for anti-lockdown rhetoric. "Ahh but mental health impact is far bigger than a couple of grannys dying". I agree that it can't be easily quantified but e.g. common arguments of apparent "higher suicide rates" can and have actually been proven not to be accurate. And it's not even a given that mental health situation would be better with no covid containing measures. More people dying, more overloaded hospitals? Great baseline for human's mental well being.
World Hunger is an even worse whataboutism, of course it has gotten worse in a global crisis but what exactly is the better alternative? Let Covid rip through the world and that'll make World Hunger go away?

That being said, I still disagree with cancelling the Cyclassics given the extremly low outdoor transmission and the comparable alternatives that are allowed. 50 people can be indoors in the same room without restrictions but a thinly outstretched crowd on the side of the streets with masks is a risk? Nonsense.
I don't think it's about the pro-race, it's probably about the Jedermann-events, which make it financially possible and which Hamburg doesn't want right now, that's my guess.

Honestly, I don't care much about the Cyclassics, a sprinter's race which would have been held during the Vuelta with many sprint stages... I thought about going there since Hamburg is not that far away but then I wasn't that interested anyway...

Regarding the German situation, I'm only getting my second jab this week, and I was on a "priority" list :tearsofjoy:, so it's probably not like everyone who wanted to is vaccinated at this point... although the numbers make it look that way. o_O

What is allowed and what isn't and what is done for covid and not done for other things... well that's another discussion, that's not really allowed here, but in the end, like I said, the loss of the Cyclassics is not exactly the biggest loss in my life... but of course it sucks for some riders.
 
Not true, in the three covid waves there was significant excess mortality each time, the reason why it "overall" leveled out was because the influenca season was completely nonexistent last winter because of the lockdown (link). Countries with less strict lockdowns (Germany wasn't even that strict) did fare worse (link).
Corona is not "pretty much non existant" right now, the overall numbers are low but they're on the rise and we've seen before how quickly it can accelerate. With only 2/3rds vaccinated there is still a need to keep exponential growth in check even if majority of risk groups are now better protected than a year ago. That doesn't mean that cancelling outdoor events is a must (I think its rubbish).



There has been an undeniable impact on plenty of people's mental health but it's a bit cheap go-to argument for anti-lockdown rhetoric. "Ahh but mental health impact is far bigger than a couple of grannys dying". I agree that it can't be easily quantified but e.g. common arguments of apparent "higher suicide rates" can and have actually been proven not to be accurate. And it's not even a given that mental health situation would be better with no covid containing measures. More people dying, more overloaded hospitals? Great baseline for human's mental well being.
World Hunger is an even worse whataboutism, of course it has gotten worse in a global crisis but what exactly is the better alternative? Let Covid rip through the world and that'll make World Hunger go away?

That being said, I still disagree with cancelling the Cyclassics given the extremly low outdoor transmission and the comparable alternatives that are allowed. 50 people can be indoors in the same room without restrictions but a thinly outstretched crowd on the side of the streets with masks is a risk? Nonsense.
The "covid waves" did exactly fall into the regular flu season, the time when there is always an excess mortality so it just followed the course it takes every year.

The two main points here are how dangerous is the corona virus in comparison and do lockdowns actually work as they are supposed to. Even if we assume corona is way worse the regular pathogens circulating every fall and winter you still dont know if a lockdown of the entire society is the proper answer and if it does more than some milder measures (staying at home when sick, handhygiene, cancel large indoor events, etc...). Uncertainty is going to remain there.
Proper research (with differing results) has been done on that but just from the top of my head, how exactly did the countries in Europe fare who had the hardest lockdowns? Does the amount and severity of restrictions correlate with a lower mortality? It doesnt seem so. How does it look in the US in different states with different measures, are the ones who had the toughest restrictions the ones with fewest deaths? I dont think it you can draw a clear conclusion there either. How did the recent "delta" wave in the UK vane without any furhter tightening of restrictions?

So, you are right high death rates arent good for mental health (despite that the vast majority of fatalities are found the age range where they normally expected to occur) but do general lockdowns decrease them to a degree that justifies them?
Similar case with world hunger, I assume everyone agrees lockdowns did aggravate the situation while its questionable how much they helped fighting covid.

That being said, minds have been made up on the corona issue by now. Im not going to convince anyone who is following the mainstream narrative and at the same time you wont be very successful with anyone from the other side (like me) either.

Whats way more important however is that we do agree cycling part of our discussion and thats the only thing that matters around here;)
 
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Back on topic - Expect the UCI to soon announce the 2022 edition of the TDU will be cancelled - There is still uncertainty about the 2022 World's which could be switched with the 2023 edition.
Wasn't 2023 that big edition where all major cycling disciplines would be at the same place to hold the various World Championships at the same time?
 
Wasn't 2023 that big edition where all major cycling disciplines would be at the same place to hold the various World Championships at the same time?
I believe so. UCI wants a guarantee from Australia that the 2022 World's will go ahead - They dont want to be scrambling around to find another venue a few months before the event.
 

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