Effects of coronavirus on professional races

[dusty red roads]

I happened on this article - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ation-was-reported-children-now-it-s-n1243161

It talks about how - in this particular type of covid symptom - antibody tests can be positive while PCR tests can be negative. Could this explain some of the false positives and false negatives we've seen in the peloton? (not just with Matthews)? Hopefully some people more versed in this than me will chime in.

 

[Unchained]

Fabrizio Guidi (EF) has said riders and staff members weren't informed of the letter sent to the UCI. According to him, riders feel safe and want to get to Milan.

I would have thought this would have been table talked at breakfast the day after 17 motos came up positive. Trying to say something good about EF..

 

[Extinction]

Why doesn't Cycling News just come down forcibly in condemning the continuation of the race? For that's the message the reader has been getting all along the course of the event, as if only Cycling News knows what's best for the sport, Italy, humanity at large. Of course Cycling News hasn't reported that Pozzovivo said he thinks there is no perceptible difference with how the bubble was managed at the Tour, but only what a few hoity-toity northerners/Americans have voiced concernedly about the Giro, with an evident disdain for southerns. Why doesn't Cycling News report what Fulgsang said about feeling as safe as could be expected given the circumstances and that he hopes for the race that all the hard mountain stages will take place as planned. In other words, why doesn't Cycling News take a more possitive, or at least more neutral, approach to "informing" the fans, rather than the condescending, undermining stance it has taken thus far? Covid cases have been on the rise it's true, but this isn't only an Italian problem and everybody knew it would occur in October. Should the race not even have begun? Will Cycling News now report as insistently against holding the Vuelta to "advise" the sport of its moral obligation to society?

It's quite amusing that a bike race in which the participants and staff are being secluded from the general public as much as possible, with a much diminished and largely mask-wearing roadside tifosi, should be viewed as any more dangerous to spreading the disease than the millions, and not just in Italy, but all throughout Europe, taking crowded public transportation every single day to get to work.

I never thought I'd agree with Vegni, but the RCS director is perfectly right in pointing out that we didn't find out about Covid just yesterday and it isn't going away tomorrow, thus all we can do is take responsible measures to live with it in the meantime. I don't think Italy, having been hit so hard in the beginning of the pandemic, but then reacting with stringent measures everybody more or less willingly followed, needs to take lessons from anyone on what "taking responsible measures" means. And certainly not from an Anglo-American oriented website.

Other than going back to full quarantine, which the authorities with no little irony are unanimously trying to avoid like the plague, all we can do is wear masks, keep distant and get on with our lives. So why all the negative reporting? It's what folks have to do every day on the intercity trains, urban buses and underground metro systems, not to mention in the office spaces, schools and places of worship.

Of course any rider or team is under no obligation to finish the race, but untoward speculating when not rooting for it to fail or be shut down is a scandalous breech of professionalism.

 

[Climbing]

Or maybe report that another round of 512 tests has been done in the meantime with no positives?
No? I guessed so.

 

[BlueRoads]

Why doesn't Cycling News just come down forcibly in condemning the continuation of the race? For that's the message the reader has been getting all along the course of the event, as if only Cycling News knows what's best for the sport, Italy, humanity at large. Of course Cycling News hasn't reported that Pozzovivo said he thinks there is no perceptible difference with how the bubble was managed at the Tour, but only what a few hoity-toity northerners/Americans have voiced concernedly about the Giro, with an evident disdain for southerns. Why doesn't Cycling News report what Fulgsang said about feeling as safe as could be expected given the circumstances and that he hopes for the race that all the hard mountain stages will take place as planned. In other words, why doesn't Cycling News take a more possitive, or at least more neutral, approach to "informing" the fans, rather than the condescending, undermining stance it has taken thus far? Covid cases have been on the rise it's true, but this isn't only an Italian problem and everybody knew it would occur in October. Should the race not even have begun? Will Cycling News now report as insistently against holding the Vuelta to "advise" the sport of its moral obligation to society?

It's quite amusing that a bike race in which the participants and staff are being secluded from the general public as much as possible, with a much diminished and largely mask-wearing roadside tifosi, should be viewed as any more dangerous to spreading the disease than the millions, and not just in Italy, but all throughout Europe, taking crowded public transportation every single day to get to work.

I never thought I'd agree with Vegni, but the RCS director is perfectly right in pointing out that we didn't find out about Covid just yesterday and it isn't going away tomorrow, thus all we can do is take responsible measures to live with it in the meantime. I don't think Italy, having been hit so hard in the beginning of the pandemic, but then reacting with stringent measures everybody more or less willingly followed, needs to take lessons from anyone on what "taking responsible measures" means. And certainly not from an Anglo-American oriented website.

Other than going back to full quarantine, which the authorities with no little irony are unanimously trying to avoid like the plague, all we can do is wear masks, keep distant and get on with our lives. So why all the negative reporting? It's what folks have to do every day on the intercity trains, urban buses and underground metro systems, not to mention in the office spaces, schools and places of worship.

Of course any rider or team is under no obligation to finish the race, but untoward speculating when not rooting for it to fail or be shut down is a scandalous breech of professionalism.

I don't think it's Americans / northerners thinking only the Italians can't handle it.
Cyclingnews has been fearing the worst for the Tour as well. I think it's more a media thing that obviously good news are no news. Also maybe for the Americans this is more of a political topic than for Europeans, because in most European countries this is not a question of left/ right.

To me this is not about Italians either, obviously the numbers are just different now, and the Giro is just not as big a race as the Tour, less money and attention is involved, so all in all it's no wonder things are going differently.
I would neither cancel the race without serious reasons, nor discount the people who say they don't feel good with the way things are handled. It's a situation which has to be watched and rated carefully.

 

[Extinction]

I don't think it's Americans / northerners thinking only the Italians can't handle it.
Cyclingnews has been fearing the worst for the Tour as well. I think it's more a media thing that obviously good news are no news. Also maybe for the Americans this is more of a political topic than for Europeans, because in most European countries this is not a question of left/ right.

To me this is not about Italians either, obviously the numbers are just different now, and the Giro is just not as big a race as the Tour, less money and attention is involved, so all in all it's no wonder things are going differently.
I would neither cancel the race without serious reasons, nor discount the people who say they don't feel good with the way things are handled. It's a situation which has to be watched and rated carefully.

While I appreciate your sympathy, it does appear that for a biased some, who have been egged on and abetted by a certain media, it goes without saying the Italians are intrinsically "incompetent and untrustworthy". At least that's the message I perceive.

 

[Extinction]

The only real difference from the Tour, is that the Giro is being run during less propitious circumstances in terms of season and thus contagion rates. This was always known and yet the authorities and the teams themselves deemed there weren't sufficient grounds to prevent the race from being held. Just as all across Europe the same was known regarding the autumn reopening of schools, office buildings, museums, gyms, eateries, community centers and municipalities, returning to full use of public transportation etc. after the summer holidays. But again this didn't induce the governments to order another lockdown.

Were there to be a sudden spike of infections at a particular school or district, then rightly that school or district should and would be shut down and quarantined. Same goes for the Giro. But until that indeed proves to be the case, let's carry on—and certainly not look for it coming with a mixture of foreboding and excitement, just so Cycling News can say "we told you so". Because shutting down the race otherwise, in the absence of shutting down everything else, does nothing to make people any safer or worse off under present conditions.

Wear a mask, keep distant, sanitize hands and let's try to make the best of a miserable situation, accepting that what has been possible, over what hasn’t, was done. Let us wish the Giro well in reaching Milan.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I see the Italian prime minister has suspended public events, is this the end of the Giro?

 

[matteof93]

I see the Italian prime minister has suspended public events, is this the end of the Giro?

No. Pro races (as well every other sport involving pro athletes) will go on normally.

 

[46&twoWheels]

rightly so. The amount of screening measures concerning pro athletes is not available to amateurs. Of course, athletes are not completely disconnected from the rise in cov-2 cases in Italy but, at least compared to 1 week ago, there isn't much difference in terms of risk within this pseudo-bubble. A rise of cases in the general population would have to be massive, exponential, to really have an impact on the race. (having said that, let's wait for the results first)

 

[King Boonen]

I happened on this article - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ation-was-reported-children-now-it-s-n1243161

It talks about how - in this particular type of covid symptom - antibody tests can be positive while PCR tests can be negative. Could this explain some of the false positives and false negatives we've seen in the peloton? (not just with Matthews)? Hopefully some people more versed in this than me will chime in.

This isn't a COVID symptom, it's a (supposed) complication, and the difference is quite important. As reported it happens post-infection which is why a PCR test may be negative but an antibody test would likely be positive. In Matthews case he was positive on a PCR test, then negative on 2 later PCR tests. Possible explanations for this are a false positive (there could be lots of causes of this from sample contamination/mix up, inaccurate test, general variation and so on), two false negative PCR tests (similar causes), or he had been infected, asymptomatic, the first test caught the very end of what was detectable and the following two were negative. To assess which is correct you'd need to know his testing history and whether a confirmatory anti-body test was carried out/is carried out and is positive (and again there are reasons this could be a false result, but the odds get much higher when combined with the other tests).

 

[dusty red roads]

Thanks, interesting. I didn't realize it was post infection, I assumed it was during infection, esp with kids anyway. So you're saying they seem to be asymptomatic during infection and only afterwards they develop these complications? It's still a little confusing to me though at the same time I take your word for it - for sure you'd understand it all better than me, though still trying to get my head around it! But for sure that clears up the Matthews situation, thanks!

 

[Climbing]

We're going all the way to Milan.
1 rider 1 staff member only positives.

 

[Leinster]

We're going all the way to Milan.
1 rider 1 staff member only positives.

Who, and what teams?

 

[jsem94]

If Gaviria really has caught it for a second time that would be some terrible luck. Christ.

 

[RedheadDane]

If Gaviria really has caught it for a second time that would be some terrible luck. Christ.

At least he isn't stuck in the UAE (country) this time around.

 

[Climbing]

Who, and what teams?

Gaviria and 1 from AG2R staff.

 

[Jagartrott]

If Gaviria really has caught it for a second time that would be some terrible luck. Christ.

Or he was less careful. Some people think they are protected after the first infection, but that does not seem the case per se.

 

[King Boonen]

Thanks, interesting. I didn't realize it was post infection, I assumed it was during infection, esp with kids anyway.

Literally from the article you linked, it's about the 8th line in it:

"Kids were developing dangerous inflammation around the heart and other organs, often weeks after their initial infections with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19."

So you're saying they seem to be asymptomatic during infection and only afterwards they develop these complications?

That's what the article is saying, yes. I'm saying this complication would not explain a positive PCR tests followed in quick succession by two negative ones. I can only explain that in the ways I highlighted. In terms of MIS-C/A I'm definitely not the person to make any statements about it, I'm just going off what's in the article you posted. Bear in mind that it's currently a very rare complication, so while it's very likely due to COVID, it's also very possible that there are other factors at play that would e hard to distinguish at the current rate.

It's still a little confusing to me though at the same time I take your word for it - for sure you'd understand it all better than me, though still trying to get my head around it! But for sure that clears up the Matthews situation, thanks!

No worries, It's an extremely complicated situation, especially as it intersects lots of different areas of expertise if you want to learn about the disease, its' progression, symptoms and complications, immunology, testing, analytical methods and epidemiology.

 

[Pantani_lives]

No riders tested positive before the Vuelta, but two staff members did: one from Sunweb and one from Bahrain.

In De Panne Bouhanni tested positive.

A more fun story: Herman De Croo, the father of the Belgian prime minister, is the only one who received a €250 fine after the Ronde van Vlaanderen. He was watching the race alongside the road without a mouth mask. Standing alone he didn't cause any danger, but rules are rules and he has a role model function.

 

[dusty red roads]

@King Boonen - Thanks for that. Oooops - I read the article too quickly and missed that! DUH!!
Still your quote from the article does say the word "often" - rather than "all the time", so I guess that leaves a bit of leg room there. I'm just a layperson, glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's a bit complicated!


Re Gaviria - I'm hoping today's positive announcement was uninfectious residue rather than him catching it again..... I guess they'll probably study him further since reinfection is quite rare (and let's hope it stays that way!).

 

[Eclipse]

Poor Gaviria

very happy for the Giro though, that should hopefully be the end of the hysteria and we can just enjoy the racing

 

[Extinction]

It was looking like the Giro would prevail. You can't be 100% sure until reaching Milan, but it does seem promising. Who knows of Jumbo pulling out was rash or sensed precaution, however, either way they really should have informed the Giro before doing so. No way they would have done that at the Tour.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Were Jumbo fined for leaving the race, do we know?

 

[Extinction]

As far as I know, it's up to the UCI to decide. But this hasn't happened yet.