Effects of coronavirus on professional races

[Bolder]

Could you guys please take this to the Covid thread down in the Cafe, so the rest of us can concentrate on discussing how Covid affects racing, please?

Seriously.

 

[GuntherL1]

Prediction: all Covid tests in the TdF will mysteriously be negative, similar to 2020.

 

[tobydawq]

Prediction: all Covid tests in the TdF will mysteriously be negative, similar to 2020.

That would be great.

 

[hayneplane]

That would be great.

From a raving point of view yes but would it be genuinely believable

 

[jmdirt]

The nonsensical contradiction for me, is the fact that riders routinely continue to ride (and I’m sure are encouraged or forced to do so by their teams) when they have bronchitis or broken bones or other ailments that are surely damaging to their long term health & wellbeing. But in contrast, drastic measures are taken for covid positives.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but when an athlete has road rash and a huge contusion they aren't going to pass it on to others. Better to have 2/3 of the platoon than none.

 

[jmdirt]

Of course they should be allowed to race. There is very little outdoor transmission anyways

If a rider is too sick to continue, they withdraw. The same as it has always been

Outdoor helps because of the 'ventilation', but when you jam 200 cyclists exerting in a tight little formation for hours and hours, that negates some of the benefit of being outside.

 

[jmdirt]

Is it ever going to get back to normal or is this the new normal? Obviously they must have ended the preventive actions too soon, but I just don't know who or what to believe anymore.

Science.

 

[Andre]

I have a medical/technical question: I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to post it but here goes. Concerning covid, isn't there a doctor/patient confidentiality agreement? What I mean is there seems to be a very enthusiastic revealing by the powers who run the sport to zero in on the type of disease a rider may acquire during a race. For example during Le Tour 2022 which I have been watching on USA tv station. Magnus Cort and several others acquired covid and were disqualified. But for example Marc Soler also caught a bug (I think it was intestinal) but nobody zeroed in on what the name of the bug was. Is it because it wasn't covid? What I'm trying to say is why is it so easily revealed as covid? Why not just disqualify the rider if you must and just announce that it was due to illness? I apologize for not making my statement clear enough, I feel like I'm not explaining it correctly.

 

[KZD]

Since apparently one can't discuss covid protocols in race threads I am going to post this here.

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the impact of covid19 on road cycling races, particularly Grand Tours. While this virus is becoming less of a problem in almost every sport this Vuelta has already more than 10 covid positives and the race still didn't reach jts muddle point. While I understand the need to test riders that exhibit symptoms, I can't agree with the policy that a positive test should automatically mean been excluded from the race because one can have very managable symptoms. Since this virus won't go anyway, but fortunately the widespread vaccination campaigns mean that its less dangerous than once was its clear that if UCI still wants the best riders in Grand Tours something will have to change, because Grand Tours are already prone to people abandoning due to other diseases or injures, we don't need a virus leading to the exclusion of 20 or 30 riders.

I think sooner or latter covid protocols will need to change and maybe other changes too, like reducing the number of riders per team and making more selective courses otherwise I think Grand Tours could lose some of the big names that having been riding them especially with the new UCI points system favouring one day races too.

 

[tobydawq]

Since apparently one can't discuss covid protocols in race threads I am going to post this here.

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the impact of covid19 on road cycling races, particularly Grand Tours. While this virus is becoming less of a problem in almost every sport this Vuelta has already more than 10 covid positives and the race still didn't reach jts muddle point. While I understand the need to test riders that exhibit symptoms, I can't agree with the policy that a positive test should automatically mean been excluded from the race because one can have very managable symptoms. Since this virus won't go anyway, but fortunately the widespread vaccination campaigns mean that its less dangerous than once was its clear that if UCI still wants the best riders in Grand Tours something will have to change, because Grand Tours are already prone to people abandoning due to other diseases or injures, we don't need a virus leading to the exclusion of 20 or 30 riders.

I think sooner or latter covid protocols will need to change and maybe other changes too, like reducing the number of riders per team and making more selective courses otherwise I think Grand Tours could lose some of the big names that having been riding them especially with the new UCI points system favouring one day races too.

I agree but I don't think any big names will be excluded unless they're really sick.

And I can't imagine it will be the same protocol next year. Then again, I really think they should already have dropped the testing now yet for some reason they are reluctant to do it.

 

[yaco]

The UCI protocols are very similar to all sports world-wide - Positive tests usually mean exclusion - The TDF had the right idea in allowing riders to continue with a low viral load.

 

[KZD]

The UCI protocols are very similar to all sports world-wide - Positive tests usually mean exclusion - The TDF had the right idea in allowing riders to continue with a low viral load.

Yes but the problem with cycling when compared to other sports is that one spends 4 or 5 hours in close proximity with a large number of people plus the time in the hotels and buses and because covid is so contagious right now, infections happen.

 

[Ranagazoo]

Since apparently one can't discuss covid protocols in race threads I am going to post this here.

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the impact of covid19 on road cycling races, particularly Grand Tours. While this virus is becoming less of a problem in almost every sport this Vuelta has already more than 10 covid positives and the race still didn't reach jts muddle point. While I understand the need to test riders that exhibit symptoms, I can't agree with the policy that a positive test should automatically mean been excluded from the race because one can have very managable symptoms. Since this virus won't go anyway, but fortunately the widespread vaccination campaigns mean that its less dangerous than once was its clear that if UCI still wants the best riders in Grand Tours something will have to change, because Grand Tours are already prone to people abandoning due to other diseases or injures, we don't need a virus leading to the exclusion of 20 or 30 riders.

I think sooner or latter covid protocols will need to change and maybe other changes too, like reducing the number of riders per team and making more selective courses otherwise I think Grand Tours could lose some of the big names that having been riding them especially with the new UCI points system favouring one day races too.

Agree 100%, especially as the positive riders usually have minor or no symptoms. I do think this is the last year we'll see these protocols though.

 

[yaco]

Yes but the problem with cycling when compared to other sports is that one spends 4 or 5 hours in close proximity with a large number of people plus the time in the hotels and buses and because covid is so contagious right now, infections happen.

What can you do - Teams will still pull out Covid positive riders who exhibit symptoms.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I would say that racing with covid is detrimental to the health of the rider. Just like any other sickness, the performance drop is considerable such that it becomes a case of survival rather than competing. Froome is placing consistently in the bottom third of the 2022 Vuelta. better to withdraw and reduce the chance of infection to the teammates and other riders. Especially with the symptom of sore throat, it is no joke considering that on bike, u have to drink 6-7 litres of water and eat 6000 cals of food.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

People are acting as if this is purely a protocol problem. No, it's actually just riders getting sick because of a highly contagious disease. These guys would still have to abandon the race if there were no testing at all because you just don't race someone that has fever.
I understand the desire to "move on" and it sucks that so many riders have to leave the race but only because we've reached a state where fatality and hospitalization rates have been controlled it still remains a very contagious respiratory disease that takes you out for a couple of days in in the context of endurance sports.

And again, "minor symptoms" just means someone is ill but doesn't have to go to the hospital, it does by no means equate to feeling basically well. And the majority of riders that had to leave developed symptoms first and then got tested. Someone like Majka has been the exception rather than the norm.

The fact that it feels so omnipresent in cycling compared to other sports is that there basically is no other sport that has athletes performing 21 days in a row. A football player might get covid at the beginning of the week , skip 3-4 training sessions and be back by the end of it and ready to play the next game. You can't skip 3-4 days at a GT so it's much bigger news.

 

[tobydawq]

People are acting as if this is purely a protocol problem. No, it's actually just riders getting sick because of a highly contagious disease. These guys would still have to abandon the race if there were no testing at all because you just don't race someone that has fever.
I understand the desire to "move on" and it sucks that so many riders have to leave the race but only because we've reached a state where fatality and hospitalization rates have been controlled it still remains a very contagious respiratory disease that takes you out for a couple of days in in the context of endurance sports.

And again, "minor symptoms" just means someone is ill but doesn't have to go to the hospital, it does by no means equate to feeling basically well. And the majority of riders that had to leave developed symptoms first and then got tested. Someone like Majka has been the exception rather than the norm.

The fact that it feels so omnipresent in cycling compared to other sports is that there basically is no other sport that has athletes performing 21 days in a row. A football player might get covid at the beginning of the week , skip 3-4 training sessions and be back by the end of it and ready to play the next game. You can't skip 3-4 days at a GT so it's much bigger news.

If all that was true, there would be no reason for testing.

 

[Ricco']

Stupid idea, but since we're in a forum I'm in the right place to say it.

Would it be strategically sound to force infections 4 to 6 months before a big target so they could be safe from future infections during the races, if there is a safe way (lab manipulated virus) to guarantee that the riders would be exposed to a low yield that doesn't put them under severe symptoms and future side effects of the virus?

 

[Bolder]

Since apparently one can't discuss covid protocols in race threads I am going to post this here.

I am becoming increasingly concerned with the impact of covid19 on road cycling races, particularly Grand Tours. While this virus is becoming less of a problem in almost every sport this Vuelta has already more than 10 covid positives and the race still didn't reach jts muddle point. While I understand the need to test riders that exhibit symptoms, I can't agree with the policy that a positive test should automatically mean been excluded from the race because one can have very managable symptoms. Since this virus won't go anyway, but fortunately the widespread vaccination campaigns mean that its less dangerous than once was its clear that if UCI still wants the best riders in Grand Tours something will have to change, because Grand Tours are already prone to people abandoning due to other diseases or injures, we don't need a virus leading to the exclusion of 20 or 30 riders.

I think sooner or latter covid protocols will need to change and maybe other changes too, like reducing the number of riders per team and making more selective courses otherwise I think Grand Tours could lose some of the big names that having been riding them especially with the new UCI points system favouring one day races too.

I think it's more about contagion. Would you want to ride or share a team bus with a contagious but asymptomatic rider, knowing that covid affects everyone differently?

I found the Majka case interesting in light of that.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

If all that was true, there would be no reason for testing.

Testing is actually a useful tool to determine the cause of symptoms and do identify if someone is infectious (which is an issue you continue to fail addressing).

Stupid idea, but since we're in a forum I'm in the right place to say it.

Would it be strategically sound to force infections 4 to 6 months before a big target so they could be safe from future infections during the races, if there is a safe way (lab manipulated virus) to guarantee that the riders would be exposed to a low yield that doesn't put them under severe symptoms and future side effects of the virus?

I think there's no way to control said low yield infection. Vaccination would be the more viable idea given that they spike the antibodies and give a reasonable immunity for like 4 weeks. So you could do that right before a GT for example but given that it may take you out of rythm for a few days (and how emotionally and politically loaded the debates about vaccines are in general) I doubt many would try that.
I think from an egoistical standpoint the best a team could do is enforce a brutal bubble before and during a GT. I think the main reason we're seeing so many cases is that everyone has (understandably so) been slacking in that regard. It sucks because general society has rightfully moved on with no restrictions but it's just a different ballgame if you only risk people getting sick for a couple of days and chilling at home vs. having to abandon a race.

 

[Netserk]

Stupid idea, but since we're in a forum I'm in the right place to say it.

Would it be strategically sound to force infections 4 to 6 months before a big target so they could be safe from future infections during the races, if there is a safe way (lab manipulated virus) to guarantee that the riders would be exposed to a low yield that doesn't put them under severe symptoms and future side effects of the virus?

Not over such a long time period (it's my understanding that previous infection only helps to prevent future infections of the same variant). It'd have to be in the prep phase then, but that would compromise your performance. Better get an additional booster in that time period.

I think it's more about contagion. Would you want to ride or share a team bus with a contagious but asymptomatic rider, knowing that covid affects everyone differently?

I found the Majka case interesting in light of that.

Isn't viral load a strong predictor of being infectious?

 

[Bolder]

Not over such a long time period (it's my understanding that previous infection only helps to prevent future infections of the same variant). It'd have to be in the prep phase then, but that would compromise your performance. Better get an additional booster in that time period.


Isn't viral load a strong predictor of being infectious?

Yes, but I think some people are more susceptible. I dunno, so many unknown factors. Yates apparently had a high fever last night and other symptoms, but it appears that Sivakov didn't...

 

[KZD]

What can you do - Teams will still pull out Covid positive riders who exhibit symptoms.

If they exhibit symptoms it makes some sense to make them leave the race even if the symptoms are not hard enough to cause that rider to abandon if it was a non-covid virus however for asymptomic cases I think its just too much as there is no guarantee that the rest of the team won't be infected either

 

[Riek s]

I doubt riders will be happy to use the current vaccine strain (mRNA) as a booster which not only doesn't prevent you from catching the disease. It is also linked to major heart diseases with young male individuals. As a cyclist, where your heart is the main muscle... i doubt this is a good idea. Also because you would be forced to do this within a month before your main goal and without any guarantees that it will even prevent it. So you are in a very hard training block, which is a very very bad idea.


Also the duration of natural immunity and the impact is still a big question mark. Yes if you had BA2 you can still catch BA5. You can also have had BA5 and still catch BA5, but the typical situation here is more asymptomatic or very very mild symptoms very much like a common cold. Which points to ignoring assymptomatic cases and very mild symptoms and only go for the 'ill'. Which at this point in time seems to be the main case (Fever) instead of the exception. Like Serry said, he never had it before, so next time he should be less sick.

Unless we have a way to safely vaccinate that also works preventive for a longer duration or a spray that works preventative for x hours, there is no way to stop the covid spread. (I honestly thought they were testing that a year or more ago.. never heard any follow-up). So if you can't stop it, you either live with it or you are going Chinese style on it.
Kind of like the riders and people that work within the GT need to isolate 2 days before and when the GT starts the isolation group includes all the riders + personnel for the duration of the GT. This group and the "possible and unknown infectious people" are kept apart. But this also means distance for public on the mountains etc.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If all that was true, there would be no reason for testing.

Yeah exactly, lol. Sam Bennett felt nothing, got tested, and he was out of the race for no reason.

I hate Covids so much. Imagine how unbearable it would be for Remco right now. QS best bet is close their eyes and don't test Remco, and if they have to, test him and dont tell anyone if hes positive. Simple as, you dont pull him out unless hes psychically unable.