Eki frustrated by AC's comments

[Carboncrank]

Has Lance thanked the team? Did he thank Contador for his work on Ventoux? We know he blew off the team dinner Saturday night to celebrate Contador's victory. We know how sour he was on the podium. We know he didn't twit a thank you either.

Should the absence of a public thank you be evidence that there wasn't a private one?

Contador did not work for Lance on Ventoux. Lance didn't need his help on Ventoux. It makes no tactical sense to help him on Ventoux.

In reality this Ventoux was the least exciting I've ever seen. Clearly the standings and times dictated only 2 things.

Alberto goes everywhere Andy goes.
Lance goes everywhere Wiggo goes.

BTW I saw an interview with Lance on Spanish site after Ventoux where he congradulated Alberto, said he was a great rider, and hats off to him.

Game over Astana 1st and 3rd.

In fact, Lance worked of AC on the bare part of the climb. I keep repeating it. Watch the last 5k again and tell me you don't see that there's a single 2k stretch where AC rides Lances wheel 4th in line getting a breather. Smart riding by AC as he knew there'd be another attack from Andy, but Lance was the one that was there for HIM. Not the other way around.

You have your right to your own opinions, but you do not however have the right to your own facts.

 

[redsprocket]

Two possible explanations...

Maybe by thanking them, Lance means $$ thanking them $$.

And if you thank a team on the podium after they have already left you to go back to the hotel I say it doesn't count. Sort of a tree falling in a forest thing.

 

[Carboncrank]

I kinda like what TFF brings to the table...

He be a great addition to the Jerry Springer show.

What's the count on how many guys want to kick his ass now?

 

[Publicus]

Contador did not work for Lance on Ventoux. Lance didn't need his help on Ventoux. It makes no tactical sense to help him on Ventoux.

In reality this Ventoux was the least exciting I've ever seen. Clearly the standings and times dictated only 2 things.

Alberto goes everywhere Andy goes.
Lance goes everywhere Wiggo goes.

BTW I saw an interview with Lance on Spanish site after Ventoux where he congradulated Alberto, said he was a great rider, and hats off to him.

Game over Astana 1st and 3rd.

In fact, Lance worked of AC on the bare part of the climb. I keep repeating it. Watch the last 5k again and tell me you don't see that there's a single 2k stretch where AC rides Lances wheel 4th in line getting a breather. Smart riding by AC as he knew there'd be another attack from Andy, but Lance was the one that was there for HIM. Not the other way around.

You have your right to your own opinions, but you do not however have the right to your own facts.

Lots of words, but you really didn't address my questions. I've quoted them below so you can try again. And by the way, Contador has spoken quiet highly of Lance's cycling abilities, even expressing admiration for him as a great champion, which is off topic, but since you noted it, I thought we get it out of the way before you say that Contador has no respect for Lance as a cyclist.

So back to the questions on the floor:

Has Lance thanked the team? Did he thank Contador for his work on Ventoux? We know he blew off the team dinner Saturday night to celebrate Contador's victory. We know how sour he was on the podium. We know he didn't twit a thank you either.

Should the absence of a public thank you be evidence that there wasn't a private one?

 

[TRDean]

He be a great addition to the Jerry Springer show.

What's the count on how many guys want to kick his ass now?

The question you need to ask is how many guys CAN kick his azz? Anyway, just funnin you guys have a good time.

 

[Carboncrank]

Lots of words, but you really didn't address my questions. I've quoted them below so you can try again. And by the way, Contador has spoken quiet highly of Lance's cycling abilities, even expressing admiration for him as a great champion, which is off topic, but since you noted it, I thought we get it out of the way before you say that Contador has no respect for Lance as a cyclist.

So back to the questions on the floor:

Originally Posted by Publicus
Has Lance thanked the team? Did he thank Contador for his work on Ventoux? We know he blew off the team dinner Saturday night to celebrate Contador's victory. We know how sour he was on the podium. We know he didn't twit a thank you either.

He had nothing to thank him for on Ventoux.
One could see his behavior on the podium as not wanting to steal the camera or spotlight from Alberto. Why were you watching him? He didn't win?

The bigger point had to do with the winner of the Tour de France not thanking his team, not the guy on the same team who came in 3rd.

 

[Sheltowee]

Tweets and twittering !!!! Am I alone in thinking all this is a bizarre way for adults to behave?

I am totally sick of the Lance and Bertie show and there is nothing to it but the fct that they don't like each other which they are not obliged to do.

You should be over the sickness in about 362 days.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

1. How would The Uniballer know what was said at either party for the team, he wasn't there.

2. Your false logic of saying you cannot prove a negative, but that therefore suggests he didn't thank the team is duly noted as interesting.

3. His other teammates aren't media whores, unlike The Uniballer, so just because they have not weighed in on the subject means bupkis in terms of whether or not he thanked anyone.

4. Obviously Lance didn't get a thank you. He also didn't get a yellow jersey. He also didn't get a stage win. He also got calluses on his wittle fwingers from tweeting like a 12 year old girl about it. You feel the need to channel his bitterness about all of that. Dang.

As to number 6 on your list, there is no way you wrote that without cracking a smile. No way.

1. Again, LA was talking about a public statement made by AC to the press, and referring to public comments in general. What AC said or didn't say in private is a separate matter.

2. The issue in this discussion has been about whether AC thanked the team in the particular public statement made in Spain that is being discussed here. That he did thank Lance was first asserted and then conceded to be probably incorrect.

3. My point stands. The assertion that AC has not thanked the team in statements made to the press in public, such as the one in which he expressed his personal disdain for LA, would be easy to disprove, if indeed it were false.

4. WTF?

As to my comment #6, way.

 

[Sheltowee]

I never had much truck for a man that "twittered."

 

[Publicus]

Originally Posted by Publicus
Has Lance thanked the team? Did he thank Contador for his work on Ventoux? We know he blew off the team dinner Saturday night to celebrate Contador's victory. We know how sour he was on the podium. We know he didn't twit a thank you either.

He had nothing to thank him for on Ventoux.
One could see his behavior on the podium as not wanting to steal the camera or spotlight from Alberto. Why were you watching him? He didn't win?

The bigger point had to do with the winner of the Tour de France not thanking his team, not the guy on the same team who came in 3rd.

LOL.

So to your knowledge Lance hasn't thanked the team. He had nothing to thank Contador about, so no he hasn't thanked him.

And we do know, via Zubeldia, that Contador has thanked the team, and apparently did it after every stage. Lance probably missed his thank you win he skipped the dinner Saturday night.

Lance apparently made podium without any assistance so there was no need to thank anyone. Good to know.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

In context his statement is meaningless. It could just as easily be directed at Lance--who was better served by keeping quiet since Contador was responding to a direct question. Lance's response sounds foolish since it is unrelated to the question at hand: their relationship.

Unrelated to their relationship? It's key to their relationship!

Their relationship is clearly affected by the fact that LA believes AC has a lot to learn (like publicly thanking your team) and refuses to acknowledge that, much less learn it.

Don't you get that LA sees himself as the ultimate teacher for AC or any of the relatively young riders in the peloton? Whether that's true or not is beside the point. Surely you see how that perception, and AC's apparent reluctance to accept LA in that manner, is central to their relationship, or, rather, the lack thereof?

 

[Sheltowee]

Before Ekimov and his possie start talking the man down they should worry about picking their riders up at the top of the mountain stages and driving them to the hotel.

What we know to be a fact is that after the Mont Ventoux stage Alberto was purposely left behind by the team and was driven to the hotel by his own brother.

I tell you, that would've never happen to me twice (like it did to Alberto) because, after the first time, I'd make sure Johan, Ekimov and the rest of the LA *****es would get their teeth realigned.

You sure you want to take on Nails?

 

[Anonymous]

And you are widely know as a self-righteous, piece of dung with an undeserved high opinion of yourself.

Awe, isn't she cute? Can't answer the questions, so she gwets hwer feewings hwort and wlashes owt. Pwor fwing.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

And the two have nothing to do with each other. If you need someone to translate that quote, I am willing to help.

Again, you fail the logic test and then only muster up enough nerve to comment on my little Lance factoid...telling, very telling.

The two have nothing to do with each other?

Do you really believe JB was not referring to AC's statement about LA made to the press in public in Spain when he wrote, "Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt".

Fail the logic test? What logic test? What are you talking about with respect to "only muster up enough nerve to comment on my little Lance factoid". What have I missed? I have limited time...

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Has Lance thanked the team? Did he thank Contador for his work on Ventoux? We know he blew off the team dinner Saturday night to celebrate Contador's victory. We know how sour he was on the podium. We know he didn't twit a thank you either.

Should the absence of a public thank you be evidence that there wasn't a private one?

Whether Lance thanked the team, or should have, is independent of the question of whether AC thanked the team, or should have. Two wrongs don't make a right...

 

[BikeCentric]

I completely agree. I'll admit I was rooting for Lance. 37, 3+ years out of competition, he's younger than me but gives me some perspective of what may be possible for an average masters bike racer/husband/business owner, etc. So in that vein I will say that I'm not the MOST objective observer out there BUT, I also race my bike. I have been for 20+ years. I've been fascinated with the TdF since the LeMond/Hinault saga. I go to Belgium in the spring to ride and watch Flanders/Ghent/Roubaix. All this does not necessarily make me an expert on anything but I still reserve the right to observe.

All that said I think Lance is acting over-the-top, no doubt. Why provide motivation to someone as talented as el pistolero? Makes no sense.

HOWEVER, if I'm el pistlero, I too am keeping my mouth shut as there is no cyclist that has ever been better than LA at making up sh!t to be mad about and using it as motivation to throttle his opponents.

One last thing. If LA wins next year, or anyone other than el pistolero, it will be because of his (AC) lack of race tactics, lack of discipline, lack of team cohesion, lack of team depth and lack of a savvy DS. All of which he apparently thinks he does not need.

I 100% agree with this.

 

[BikeCentric]

Well, that is interesting. Would like some confirmation of this.
Still, thanks in private are easy to claim and hard to prove or disprove, but thanks to the team in public are certainly in order, and that is much easier to reliably witness and document. Also, Lance's, JB's, JW's and Eki's comments were all made in public about AC's public statement, so that is arguably the context they were talking about.

LOL Ninety5, you would like confirmation on what Zubeldia says but you take everything Lance and Eki say at face value. Come on man, just be objective - both LA and AC are acting like high school girls in this stupid "conflict" and I personally think LA is the bigger b!tch here but I admit that's my own opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Again, LA was talking about a public statement made by AC to the press, and referring to public comments in general. What AC said or didn't say in private is a separate matter.

2. The issue in this discussion has been about whether AC thanked the team in the particular public statement made in Spain that is being discussed here. That he did thank Lance was first asserted and then conceded to be probably incorrect.

3. My point stands. The assertion that AC has not thanked the team in statements made to the press in public, such as the one in which he expressed his personal disdain for LA, would be easy to disprove, if indeed it were false.

4. WTF?

As to my comment #6, way.

What disingenuous poppycock. You even reference what you believe he didn't do in private based on the fact that nobody has said he did.

When has Lance thanked the team for his 3rd place in the press?

I don't think either have to do it in the press because the thanks go to the people who help them, and whether anyone knows about it is beside the point of the intent of a show of gratitude.

Then again, we are talking about Lance and a Lance fan, so everything has to be done with an eye on the media because if you don't get public recognition, it doesn't really serve you. Also, your fans need you to be seen as a hero too. The point is never about the good he does, it is about getting credit for what he does. If nobody sees it, it does the man and his fans no good because the point is to justify behavior and promote an image. It isn't ever about actually doing something good just because it is a good thing to do.

 

[Anonymous]

The two have nothing to do with each other?

Do you really believe JB was not referring to AC's statement about LA made to the press in public in Spain when he wrote, "Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt".

Fail the logic test? What logic test? What are you talking about with respect to "only muster up enough nerve to comment on my little Lance factoid". What have I missed? I have limited time...

The reality of whether he said "thank you" to his teammates (other than the Uniballer) and his statement about Lance are two different things, and the JB quote that he took from Axel's twitter only has to do with the latter. It has nothing to do with the former.

And don't put yourself out as far as time because you really don't matter that much. I just like bating you because you take it and then fumble around with it. My point is never to actually care about what your opinion is because you clearly have little in the way of opinion that is logical or well informed.

 

[BikeCentric]

This begs a question from me...Basque is a region of Spain correct? Do they speak a different Spanish dialect? Do they not consider themselves Spanish, and if so why not?

Thanks Senor!!!

They are from a mountainous region of Spain; have their own ancient culture and dialect. They've been there since at least the Middle Ages and before that the history gets hazy. They have a full Basque Separatist movement, many want their own Nation, and there is a terrorist organization known as ETA that has been at war with the Spanish Government for at least 50 years.

 

[Carboncrank]

LOL.

So to your knowledge Lance hasn't thanked the team. He had nothing to thank Contador about, so no he hasn't thanked him.

And we do know, via Zubeldia, that Contador has thanked the team, and apparently did it after every stage. Lance probably missed his thank you win he skipped the dinner Saturday night.

Lance apparently made podium without any assistance so there was no need to thank anyone. Good to know.

you changed the subject. this is about whether the winner of the tour was gracious about his team after it was done. Do have something to show me that says he did?
you asked if he thanked him after Ventoux. I said he had no reason to, certainly not publicly.

I saw Lance outside the bus thanking riders all the time. Even high fived Contador after the team time trial although it looked to me like AC averted eye contact. That's on AC, not Lance.

 

[Sheltowee]

Could you please explain the Basque/Spanish situation for me?

I'll try to help you TR. The Basques were a seperate people unto themsleves before they were semi-conquered by the Spanish. They have never accepted being part of Spain and have been fighting an ongoing seperatist war for many years. The Basque hate to be referred to as Spanish and speak a dialect that is difficult to understand by other Spanish speaking people. There is a large Basque community in U.S. in Idaho, I think.

 

[Publicus]

Unrelated to their relationship? It's key to their relationship!

Their relationship is clearly affected by the fact that LA believes AC has a lot to learn (like publicly thanking your team) and refuses to acknowledge that, much less learn it.

Don't you get the LA sees himself as the ultimate teacher for AC or any of the relatively young riders in the peloton? Whether that's true or not is besides the point. Surely you see how that perception, and AC's apparent reluctance to accept LA in that manner, is central to their relationship, or, rather, the lack thereof?

Whoa. I need a moment to digest your commentary above.

But my central point remains. There was no reason for Lance to respond by Twitter. Contador didn't say anything about he won without any help. Or that he didn't need the team. He responded to a question about his relationship with Lance. He spoke on the professional aspect (praising Lance) and the personal aspect (saying he had no admiration for him and that relationship was non-existent). I see no jumping off point, at least on the surface, for Lance's comments. He could have simply said he agreed that they didn't have a personal relationship. Or just said nothing at all. In my mind though, Lance's comments were more about his (Lance's) inability to adjust to how things have always worked for him: what is good for Lance is good for the team; that he is the team. That certainly seems consistent with how the USPS/Disco Teams were constructed. But that's just my opinion.

I'll gather my thoughts on your other commentary and revert back. Just wow.

 

[Publicus]

you changed the subject. this is about whether the winner of the tour was gracious about his team after it was done. Do have something to show me that says he did?
you asked if he thanked him after Ventoux. I said he had no reason to, certainly not publicly.

I saw Lance outside the bus thanking riders all the time. Even high fived Contador after the team time trial although it looked to me like AC averted eye contact. That's on AC, not Lance.

I actually didn't. I've just taken Armstrong's position about Contador, and reversed it and applied it to him. The team demonstrably worked harder on Lance's behalf, but I've seen no public acknowledgment of that work during the final interviews or on his twitter account. According to Armstrong's approach, then he TOO needs to learn that there is no "I" in team. That instead of twittering bs to Contador, he should be thanking his team. He hasn't. In short, I'm demonstrating Armstrong's HYPOCRISY.

We have enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Lance is full of crap about whether Contador thanked his team mates. We also have plenty of circumstantial evidence that Lance has been less than a team mate to Contador, and taken active steps to minimize him and his success within the team. The fact that you are unwilling to even ACKNOWLEDGE these FACTS, demonstrates that you've let your admiration of Lance color your objectivity.

 

[BikeCentric]

Contador did not work for Lance on Ventoux. Lance didn't need his help on Ventoux. It makes no tactical sense to help him on Ventoux.

In reality this Ventoux was the least exciting I've ever seen. Clearly the standings and times dictated only 2 things.

Alberto goes everywhere Andy goes.
Lance goes everywhere Wiggo goes.

BTW I saw an interview with Lance on Spanish site after Ventoux where he congradulated Alberto, said he was a great rider, and hats off to him.

Game over Astana 1st and 3rd.

In fact, Lance worked of AC on the bare part of the climb. I keep repeating it. Watch the last 5k again and tell me you don't see that there's a single 2k stretch where AC rides Lances wheel 4th in line getting a breather. Smart riding by AC as he knew there'd be another attack from Andy, but Lance was the one that was there for HIM. Not the other way around.

You have your right to your own opinions, but you do not however have the right to your own facts.

Well here's a fact for you: the team leader of a cycling team has ZERO responsibility to help his own domestiques to achieve a high placing; as a matter of fact it's completely counterproductive to what the leader is trying to accomplish, which is of course to win the race. But I guess since Alberto didn't do what Lance never did we should all still hold him to some kind of weird standard whereby he was expected to win the TDF and also pace his own domestiques onto the podium.