Teams & Riders Polti-Kometa

[barmaher]

You guys are way too old school. Times have changed. There are plenty of opportunities at Ineos to give him a gentle introduction to professional cycling in Year 1. He doesn't have to get Adam Hansen treatment in his rookie year. Coppi e Bartali, Hammer Series, ToB, Norway, Deutschland are good stepping stones.

I would trust top end WT teams not to physiologically crush a rider. Certainly over some two-bob U23 set-up.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You guys are way too old school. Times have changed. There are plenty of opportunities at Ineos to give him a gentle introduction to professional cycling in Year 1. He doesn't have to get Adam Hansen treatment in his rookie year. Coppi e Bartali, Hammer Series, ToB, Norway, Deutschland are good stepping stones.

I would trust top end WT teams not to physiologically crush a rider. Certainly over some two-bob U23 set-up.

Sorry but even those races are probably too high a level when all he's raced this year are Spanish junior races and a handful of international junior races in which he didn't even excel. There is nothing Ineos or any other WT team can offer him at this point. I see two scenarios: either they overwork him with too heavy a training or race schedule, or they leave him to develop on his own pace, which would in effect be no different to what would happen in a lower level team, with the difference that on a lower level team he would have races to test himself and improve as opposed to hanging out in the gruppetto and collecting DNFs at your proposed "stepping stones".

The right step up would be to sub23 or continental level to ride the biggest international sub23 races next year and see how he fares at that level. Then in 2021 or 2022 he would be ready for the jump to World Tour. What is the point of bringing him to the World Tour at this point? It's obvious that idiot Acquadro is behind this again. That dude has dollar signs in his eyes.

 

[barmaher]

If I were him, I would look at the way Ineos have developed multiple TdF winners, particularly Bernal, and sign.

Lots of people were saying Bernal was being rushed. Saying Sky was the wrong place for him to develop. Cycling is changing. Riders and support staff are far better informed on what is an appropriate workload for a youngster.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If I were him, I would look at the way Ineos have developed multiple TdF winners, particularly Bernal, and sign.

Lots of people were saying Bernal was being rushed. Saying Sky was the wrong place for him to develop. Cycling is changing. Riders and support staff are far better informed on what is an appropriate workload for a youngster.

The boy is 18 for christ's sake. Beyond Evenepoel, can you name any other rider that stepped up to WT at 18 years old? Sagan was 19, turning 20, Mohoric was 19, turning 20, even Bernal was 19 when he started at Androni.

 

[F_Cance]

Brenner will probably be the next rider to step up at 18, but he is even more impressive than Evenepoel was at the juniors.

 

[barmaher]

The boy is 18 for christ's sake. Beyond Evenepoel, can you name any other rider that stepped up to WT at 18 years old? Sagan was 19, turning 20, Mohoric was 19, turning 20, even Bernal was 19 when he started at Androni.

I say go for it. He wants to join a top team. And Ineos are silly if they think they're getting out of him next year. These guys aren't stupid, so next year is all about developing him. Good on him, I say.

I am not a big fan of Ineos either for a variety of reasons, but they are developing a stable of exciting young talents.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I say go for it. He wants to join a top team. And Ineos are silly if they think they're getting out of him next year. These guys aren't stupid, so next year is all about developing him. Good on him, I say.

I am not a big fan of Ineos either for a variety of reasons, but they are developing a stable of exciting young talents.

The point is, why should he be developed at WT level, why can't he follow the same trajectory that every big talent follows and join a big WT team after a couple of years at U23 level. That's the method that has been shown to work. This is almost completely without precedent and could turn out to be detrimental for his development. Why take that risk? There is literally no reason for it other than Sky wanting to call dibs on him and Acquadro messing with the boy's head.

I've followed this project since it started 7 years ago. Carlos is the team's prized flower, and they are throwing it into the dirt, to quote Game of Thrones. Sky won't care if they ruin him, they'll have access to many more young talents.

It's no secret that I don't like Sky, and heck yes I'd rather see the boy on any other team. I also don't see why they would be interested in him besides the obvious fact that his agent is Acquadro, there are about a dozen more interesting young prospects in the junior division that have shown more promise internationally. But here's the thing: if they want him, and he wants to be one of them, good for him, I'm excited for him and excited for the project. I just don't see why it's necessary to rush it. I hope my concern will prove to be baseless but I can't see anything good come out of this.

 

[barmaher]

They are interested in him because he is the prized flower. They have no interest in not developing him optimally.

 

[LaFlorecita]

They are interested in him because he is the prized flower. They have no interest in not developing him optimally.

He is the team's prized flower. That doesn't mean he is the next Sagan, Bernal or Evenepoel. There are so many juniors that have shown more and are more ready to step up to WorldTour, and even those aren't joining WT teams. There is no precedent for this whatsoever beyond Evenepoel. Ineos have no experience developing riders this young (they don't even have a development team like for example Lotto Soudal and CCC whom they could outsource it to). They may not have an interest in ruining his development but they are risking it and it makes no sense.

There is a reason we have U23 races. 18-year olds aren't ready to bear the same race and training load as 28-year olds. Even if they give him a very gentle training schedule, he will still be thrown in with the sharks at races that are simply way too long and too tough for him at this point in his career. There is nothing, I repeat, nothing that Ineos can offer him now that they can't offer him in 2 years when he is stronger, older and more experienced. He risks finishing his neo pro contract without showing any clear signs of progression and then having to take two steps back to the U23. Once again, why would they take that risk? You seem so defensive of this move but be honest, do you really believe this is what's best for the boy and his future career?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Read on a Spanish website that the mystery 5th rider will also be off to Trek. Anxious to find out who it will be. Gazzoli, Dina, Puppio?

Edit: although, why not announce it together with the other two if this was the case?

 

[F_Cance]

Read on a Spanish website that the mystery 5th rider will also be off to Trek. Anxious to find out who it will be. Gazzoli, Dina, Puppio?

Edit: although, why not announce it together with the other two if this was the case?

Exactly my thought. Was about to write that. Maybe something like the rider joins in the middle of next season or so, as some teams have been doing lately.

I would hope for Gazzoli then. Dina is solid but will never be spectacular. Don't really see why a WT team should want to sign him. Other than PR reasons regarding next years Giro. Not that Puppio wouldn't be interesting. I just think that Trek could need another sprinter and Gazzoli is one of the best talents in that regard if you ask me. Due to bad luck and injuries he does not have the results this year, except for the Valenciana sprint.

 

[perico]

If I were Fran (or Bertie) I would follow the Unzue route and kindly and gently try to steer their riders clear of Aquadro or they'll be doing nothing but carrying Egan's water bottles, since it seems Astana and Ineos are the only two left who will put up with him and his riders.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

He is the team's prized flower. That doesn't mean he is the next Sagan, Bernal or Evenepoel. There are so many juniors that have shown more and are more ready to step up to WorldTour, and even those aren't joining WT teams. There is no precedent for this whatsoever beyond Evenepoel. Ineos have no experience developing riders this young (they don't even have a development team like for example Lotto Soudal and CCC whom they could outsource it to). They may not have an interest in ruining his development but they are risking it and it makes no sense.

There is a reason we have U23 races. 18-year olds aren't ready to bear the same race and training load as 28-year olds. Even if they give him a very gentle training schedule, he will still be thrown in with the sharks at races that are simply way too long and too tough for him at this point in his career. There is nothing, I repeat, nothing that Ineos can offer him now that they can't offer him in 2 years when he is stronger, older and more experienced. He risks finishing his neo pro contract without showing any clear signs of progression and then having to take two steps back to the U23. Once again, why would they take that risk? You seem so defensive of this move but be honest, do you really believe this is what's best for the boy and his future career?

Could it not be that they are signing him for next to nothing now rather than spend a fortune on him in a couple of years when he has potentially progressed to a junior superstar and other WT teams come knocking on the door. Maybe the powers that be should make that there should be no WT teams signing riders under a certain age unless they have junior/U23 squads that only enter into those type of races and not WT races, thus ensuring proper nurturing into bigger/better riders.

 

[F_Cance]

If one team does not care about money, it is Ineos.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Could it not be that they are signing him for next to nothing now rather than spend a fortune on him in a couple of years when he has potentially progressed to a junior superstar and other WT teams come knocking on the door. Maybe the powers that be should make that there should be no WT teams signing riders under a certain age unless they have junior/U23 squads that only enter into those type of races and not WT races, thus ensuring proper nurturing into bigger/better riders.

That might be the case, but in general I believe most teams offer neo pros just the bare minimum neo salary of 30k per annum. In fact it was Sky that started offering many times that amount in order to sign up all of the biggest talents.
I think it would be good to establish some kind of rule, OTOH look at Evenepoel, he is doing quite alright. But would it really have been bad for him to ride one or even half a season at U23 level? Maybe that should be the rule, can't sign riders straight out of junior onto a WT team, only halfway through their first U23 year at the earliest.

 

[F_Cance]

Get to know Michele Gazzoli

The Junior European RR champion in 2017, Michele Gazzoli hasn’t had the easiest first two seasons at this level. But the fast Italian has been able to showcase his raw speed on a few occasions, esp…

u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com

The Kometa rider has been able to defend his honour in pro sprints on various occasions over the past 18 months, and this has reportedly attracted some interest from Trek-Segafredo.

There are rumours he may be on the WorldTour by 2020

 

[LaFlorecita]

Get to know Michele Gazzoli

The Junior European RR champion in 2017, Michele Gazzoli hasn’t had the easiest first two seasons at this level. But the fast Italian has been able to showcase his raw speed on a few occasions, esp…

u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com

Interesting interview, thanks for sharing. If what Berto said is correct we are still waiting for 3 transfers to be announced. Exciting times ahead!

 

[Guszek]

Oldani officially announced as a Lotto Soudal rider in 2020.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Cool news. So still waiting on confirmation of the Rodriguez to Ineos move and the mystery 5th rider (to Trek?)
A couple days back Alberto posted an Instagram story photo of him, Basso and his brother with the caption "work in progress 2020". Makes me wonder if they are still aiming for a step up next year. With all of their best guys leaving it seems a tough ask.

 

[Ruudz0r]

The boy is 18 for christ's sake. Beyond Evenepoel, can you name any other rider that stepped up to WT at 18 years old? Sagan was 19, turning 20, Mohoric was 19, turning 20, even Bernal was 19 when he started at Androni.

Bernal was 18 when he started at Androni, he had his birthday before the first race though. Daniel Felipe Martinez was also 18 when he started at Team Colombia, but both are ofc PCT. Think for WT (well wasnt called WT back then), we have to go back to Pozzato in 2000 for big Mapei. Cancellara also became trainee in his first year as u23 (though he was 19 at that time of the season), and got his pro contract when he was 19 as well.

But it is surely something that doesnt happen very oftne, agree with you that it is too early for Rodriguez. Would be better if it is a pre-deal with Ineos and that he first gets to mature somewhere for 1-2 years. But guess that aint happening

 

[LaFlorecita]

Bernal was 18 when he started at Androni, he had his birthday before the first race though. Daniel Felipe Martinez was also 18 when he started at Team Colombia, but both are ofc PCT. Think for WT (well wasnt called WT back then), we have to go back to Pozzato in 2000 for big Mapei. Cancellara also became trainee in his first year as u23 (though he was 19 at that time of the season), and got his pro contract when he was 19 as well.

But it is surely something that doesnt happen very oftne, agree with you that it is too early for Rodriguez. Would be better if it is a pre-deal with Ineos and that he first gets to mature somewhere for 1-2 years. But guess that aint happening

Alberto confirmed again after stage 17 that Rodriguez will ride for INEOS in 2020, so a contract starting in 2021 or 2022, which was my hope, seems highly unlikely. Unless INEOS are starting a U23 team, but we would have heard about it by now.

 

[F_Cance]

Any news? I think it is safe to say now that they won't go up to PCT. They only have 2 riders so far for next year (Fancellu, Garcia Gonzalez).

 

[LaFlorecita]

Any news? I think it is safe to say now that they won't go up to PCT. They only have 2 riders so far for next year (Fancellu, Garcia Gonzalez).

Fancellu has been confirmed? I missed that.
I'm guessing most of the older Spanish guys will be leaving (Camacho, Canton, Sevilla). Canton and Sevilla will be out of U23 next year, Camacho already was this year.
Most of the other guys should hang around for another year, just hasn't been announced I think.

 

[JoeD1997]

Fancellu has been confirmed? I missed that.
I'm guessing most of the older Spanish guys will be leaving (Camacho, Canton, Sevilla). Canton and Sevilla will be out of U23 next year, Camacho already was this year.
Most of the other guys should hang around for another year, just hasn't been announced I think.

Sevilla and Canton lost their U23 eligibility at the end of last season actually. Either way, I assumed Sevilla, Camacho et al would stay with Kometa given the good race calendar in Spain etc, unless one of the Spanish PCT come knocking. We've seen Gazzoli linked to Trek, assuming Puppio and Rubino would stay on for 2020?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Sevilla and Canton lost their U23 eligibility at the end of last season actually. Either way, I assumed Sevilla, Camacho et al would stay with Kometa given the good race calendar in Spain etc, unless one of the Spanish PCT come knocking. We've seen Gazzoli linked to Trek, assuming Puppio and Rubino would stay on for 2020?

It really depends on the team's goals for the future. IMO they're more than welcome to stay but if the team is invested in staying a development squad it doesn't make sense for those guys to stay as they're running out of time to make it on the big scene. If they want to slowly build up towards perhaps Pro Conti level those guys could hang around. Talking about the Spanish guys of course not the Italians.