Esteban Chaves Discussion Thread

[yaco]

Re:

Will be very interesting when OGE decide to put all the eggs in the Esteban basket. Could have been a very different result if instead of Caleb and Luka they decide to bring the Yates twins as Doms. Still a foot in each camp, not that I blame them but a pure focus could have made a difference.
Also he just needs to focus a bit more, looking a backstage pass he didn't sleep until 4am on one stage because he was doing things for his teammates. Considering it just looked like fatigue in the final stage, gestures like that can have a heavy price. Although seeing Howson ride on the front until he pukes might mean that it pays dividends.

Chavez had enough support at the Giro - Effectively had Howson/Tzurruka and Molina as mountain support - Ewan in no way impinged on Chavez GC ambitions - Will get more support next year if the Neopro Power can get over his tendinitis and Haig will be in his second year - 2016 has been fine Chavez to target Giro and Vuelta - Yates boys to target stages at the TDF - Watch the races and you'll see S.Yates has been riding GC in one week stage races and A.Yates has been his domestique - Now if both Yates boys stay at OGE in 2017,expect one to ride GC at the Vuelta and one at the Giro, while Chavez will do the TDF.

 

[yaco]

Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

While Orica did decent, if Chaves rode for a team like Sky I have no doubt he would have defended his GC. Unless Orica provdes him good enough climbers, I hope he doesn't feel obliged to be staying with them just because they gave him chance.

OGE recruited 2 climbers in Tzurruka and Molina. Put on 2 neo pros Power ( injured ) and Haig who can climb for the longer term - You are making it up.

There is no conflict between Ewan and Chavez - There is conflict between Matthews and Gerrans.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Will be very interesting when OGE decide to put all the eggs in the Esteban basket. Could have been a very different result if instead of Caleb and Luka they decide to bring the Yates twins as Doms. Still a foot in each camp, not that I blame them but a pure focus could have made a difference.
Also he just needs to focus a bit more, looking a backstage pass he didn't sleep until 4am on one stage because he was doing things for his teammates. Considering it just looked like fatigue in the final stage, gestures like that can have a heavy price. Although seeing Howson ride on the front until he pukes might mean that it pays dividends.

Chavez had enough support at the Giro - Effectively had Howson/Tzurruka and Molina as mountain support - Ewan in no way impinged on Chavez GC ambitions - Will get more support next year if the Neopro Power can get over his tendinitis and Haig will be in his second year - 2016 has been fine Chavez to target Giro and Vuelta - Yates boys to target stages at the TDF - Watch the races and you'll see S.Yates has been riding GC in one week stage races and A.Yates has been his domestique - Now if both Yates boys stay at OGE in 2017,expect one to ride GC at the Vuelta and one at the Giro, while Chavez will do the TDF.

I think Chavez needs one or two that are like Scarponi strength. Not just pull hard, isolate Kruisjwick then disappeared. If he got someone on the flat, he could have save himself for his last climb. I always thought that Chavez still needs to improve on long climb with multiple mountains back to back days. He was running out of gas or his illness has affected him? So he needs to learn how to manage his health too. But 2 back to back GT, one top 5 and one 2nd spot, he is certainly improving drastically. Vuelta will be his next try. Maybe 3rd time is a charm that he finally figured out how to take care himself well (so doesn't get sick) and manage his energy for grueling 3rd weeks.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Will be very interesting when OGE decide to put all the eggs in the Esteban basket. Could have been a very different result if instead of Caleb and Luka they decide to bring the Yates twins as Doms. Still a foot in each camp, not that I blame them but a pure focus could have made a difference.
Also he just needs to focus a bit more, looking a backstage pass he didn't sleep until 4am on one stage because he was doing things for his teammates. Considering it just looked like fatigue in the final stage, gestures like that can have a heavy price. Although seeing Howson ride on the front until he pukes might mean that it pays dividends.

great observation. I think OGE needs to start thinking of what team they will be? GC team & Classic team? Sprint & Classic? Certainly not all 3. Now they have GT contender, Classic contender and sprint contender. If they want it all, I don't think they are going to be succeeded. They need to start building a team around Chavez. He is clearly in rising based on his results in the last 2 GT. The Yates brother has a long way to go. They haven't cracked top 5 GT yet so far. If they work as Chavez domestique, that would give chavez a strong team.Their classic team is there already with Gerrand and Matthew. It think, Ewans probably should go to another team.

On another note, I have to say that White is doing a great job of building this youngster. He definitely knows how to build their potential. Considering he got kicked out of Garmin (and look where Garmin is), he has done a wonderful job of building this team.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

While Orica did decent, if Chaves rode for a team like Sky I have no doubt he would have defended his GC. Unless Orica provdes him good enough climbers, I hope he doesn't feel obliged to be staying with them just because they gave him chance.

OGE recruited 2 climbers in Tzurruka and Molina. Put on 2 neo pros Power ( injured ) and Haig who can climb for the longer term - You are making it up.

There is no conflict between Ewan and Chavez - There is conflict between Matthews and Gerrans.

Was not talking about personal acrimony but merely the cold hard fact that you will not be able to satisfy both Chaves & Ewan in the one GT squad. He is just too resource/labour intensive with regards to his needs and, at least for the next couple of years, incapable to going full distance at a GT thus cutting your team down to at least 8 by the time it gets down to GC business. Classic riders can at least fend for themselves in the mountains & at minimum do bottle runs ..... the Kittels & Ewans can't/don't.

Ewan, regrettably, will be retained at the end of the year. Hopefully he will have been fully exposed for the one trick pony that he is by the time the next contract comes up ..... and he be encouraged to find employment elsewhere.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Will be very interesting when OGE decide to put all the eggs in the Esteban basket. Could have been a very different result if instead of Caleb and Luka they decide to bring the Yates twins as Doms. Still a foot in each camp, not that I blame them but a pure focus could have made a difference.
Also he just needs to focus a bit more, looking a backstage pass he didn't sleep until 4am on one stage because he was doing things for his teammates. Considering it just looked like fatigue in the final stage, gestures like that can have a heavy price. Although seeing Howson ride on the front until he pukes might mean that it pays dividends.

great observation. I think OGE needs to start thinking of what team they will be? GC team & Classic team? Sprint & Classic? Certainly not all 3. Now they have GT contender, Classic contender and sprint contender. If they want it all, I don't think they are going to be succeeded. They need to start building a team around Chavez. He is clearly in rising based on his results in the last 2 GT. The Yates brother has a long way to go. They haven't cracked top 5 GT yet so far. If they work as Chavez domestique, that would give chavez a strong team.Their classic team is there already with Gerrand and Matthew. It think, Ewans probably should go to another team.

On another note, I have to say that White is doing a great job of building this youngster. He definitely knows how to build their potential. Considering he got kicked out of Garmin (and look where Garmin is), he has done a wonderful job of building this team.

I'm in basic agreement. It may well be that the Yates twins stay; who knows how/in which direction they will progress but for this year at least I would NOT be using them as domestiques for Chaves.

I think they can pursue GC plus classics but certainly not all 3 .... and I feel there is greater potential for results going down the classics path than with out n out sprinters. In any case, selecting a classics rider to target stages at a GT is far more compatible with GC than a bunch sprinter. They are far less labour intensive with regards to support and generally fend for themselves in the mountains rather than having to send them home.

- Gerrans, in all honesty, could well retire at the end of next year.
- Matthews has already shown the potential to win major one dayers
- Could the Yates twins be Ardennes contenders or maybe Lombardie ?
- Chaves himself was in the mix at last year's Lombardie; will this be a target or maybe certain Ardennes races ?
- Hayman is a veteran but they may have some younger riders (Cort/Edmondson) with cobbles potential. These guys are likely to have good engines so also likely grunt potential for flat lands in stage races.

- Matthews has al

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

While Orica did decent, if Chaves rode for a team like Sky I have no doubt he would have defended his GC. Unless Orica provdes him good enough climbers, I hope he doesn't feel obliged to be staying with them just because they gave him chance.

OGE recruited 2 climbers in Tzurruka and Molina. Put on 2 neo pros Power ( injured ) and Haig who can climb for the longer term - You are making it up.

There is no conflict between Ewan and Chavez - There is conflict between Matthews and Gerrans.

There is conflict between anyone who's good on a hilly course likely to end with a sprint and Gerrans. It's just a fact, ask Cadel Evans.

It won't be long until one (or both) of the Yates brothers have a run in with Gerrans as well.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

While Orica did decent, if Chaves rode for a team like Sky I have no doubt he would have defended his GC. Unless Orica provdes him good enough climbers, I hope he doesn't feel obliged to be staying with them just because they gave him chance.

OGE recruited 2 climbers in Tzurruka and Molina. Put on 2 neo pros Power ( injured ) and Haig who can climb for the longer term - You are making it up.

There is no conflict between Ewan and Chavez - There is conflict between Matthews and Gerrans.

There is conflict between anyone who's good on a hilly course likely to end with a sprint and Gerrans. It's just a fact, ask Cadel Evans.

It won't be long until one (or both) of the Yates brothers have a run in with Gerrans as well.

Well, there may be only one more year when that potential Yates v Gerrans clash may take place. He may well retire at the end of next year rather than take a primarily secondary role. As for the Evans/Gerrans; if you're referring to 2009 Worlds the only Cuddles vote was from Cuddles himself.

The Gerrans/Matthews issue will certainly be need to be settled if Matthews is to stay ...... and his retention has to be no1 or no2 priority at the end of the year. Gerrans has been top dog at OGE, and his record of delivering major one day results have warranted that but he is not the future of the team.

OGE hierarchy have shown that they ARE capable of "moving people on" as has been seen with a number of AUS riders and they will need to spell it out that he will be given precedence for TdU next year but when they get to Europe, others are likely to get precedence ahead of him. If he doesn't like that, well he can retire or look elsewhere.

 

[claude cat]

Re: Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

While Orica did decent, if Chaves rode for a team like Sky I have no doubt he would have defended his GC. Unless Orica provdes him good enough climbers, I hope he doesn't feel obliged to be staying with them just because they gave him chance.

OGE recruited 2 climbers in Tzurruka and Molina. Put on 2 neo pros Power ( injured ) and Haig who can climb for the longer term - You are making it up.

There is no conflict between Ewan and Chavez - There is conflict between Matthews and Gerrans.

Agreed. And Howson seems to be developing as a climber very nicely as well. Something I wouldn't have considered last year.

 

[Tigerion]

Re: Re:

Also he just needs to focus a bit more, looking a backstage pass he didn't sleep until 4am on one stage because he was doing things for his teammates. Considering it just looked like fatigue in the final stage, gestures like that can have a heavy price. Although seeing Howson ride on the front until he pukes might mean that it pays dividends.

You really believe that?

Do I believe he didn't sleep until 4am. No
Do I believe he sacrificed sleep in order to do those. Yes

 

[hfer07]

Re:

They have to. If they don't he should leave.

I agree with the 1st part. Remember: this is the very first time ever OGE has a genuine rider capable of winning a GT- so Il Giro was a learning experience- which lead us to believe they MUST get Chavito the personnel he needs to make it happen. As far as leaving- Esteban is extremely pleased with the team and above that- he well know within the team-he's the "indisputable leader", so why go elsewhere to share leadership & fit his schedule because of that?

Chaves should hope Ewan progresses fast so he's put in the Tour team while Chaves can win Giro/Vuelta coming years. If Ewan is present there will always be conflict of interest, especially as Ewan is getting better as he progresses.

Indeed - add to that Ewan isn't winning at all - yes, he's developing- but other youngster like Gaviria OTOH......

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think OGE have to change much if their younger riders improve. There are three GTs per year and Chaves will only target one which leaves Yates to ride for stage wins or target another. Gerrans seems to be going backwards and I think the injuries and age are catching up with him. I can't see him winning another classic at this point. He is not far off retirement. Matthews is not a typical bunch sprinter so he would only target certain stages in a GT and it would not be the mountainous ones so that should not have much effect on the GC leader. The days of US Postal are long gone where it was all about one man and nothing else. Teams now are more versatile and value stage wins more and there is no reason teams cannot do both unless you have a team without quality sprinters and have selected more climbers to support the leader then it is clear cut where the priority lies. Even with a stronger team with the legs Chaves had on the last few stages plus his illness a stronger team would not have made much or any difference to the result. Uran tried to help him but Chaves was already struggling at that stage. He was actually lucky to hang onto second and with another km on the climb Valverde would have finished second overall.

Chaves has really improved with his Vuelta and Giro rides. It's just a matter of how much improvement he has left in him and whether he will be top five rider who could podium like Uran, TJVG or Majka or take it to the next level. Attitude does not seem to be a problem for him and he does not look for excuses and does not mind saying good things about his opposition. He seems to be down to earth in his personality..

 

[TMP402]

https://twitter.com/TimDecker7/status/761008971016728576

 

[yaco]

Ah ! Esteban is alive - Spent the last 2 months training in Columbia with Mum and Dad. Olympics RR is his only race between the Giro and the Vuelta

 

[Poursuivant]

This lad is very, very likeable. Has a great chance in this Vuelta.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Can't get over how infectious his smile is

 

[Billie]

everytime someone writes Columbia I die a little more inside

 

[Krokro]

What's wrong with his smile ? He seems like an awesomely nice guy !
I'm really hyped by this little ColUmbian
After 2015 Vuelta and a pretty great Giro I still think he has chances to steal a GT in a near future

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re:

everytime someone writes Columbia I die a little more inside

You mean he is not from just outside Washington DC? Heck, not even the West Coast of Canada??

I have gone right off the cheerful little Columbian fella.

 

[Arredondo]

He should be a monster in the 2nd week. It's normal he missed some racing km's in the first stages after not riding for 2 months.

It will be a big disappointment if he doesn't finish on the podium this Vuelta.

 

[yaco]

Will be a big attack in Stage 9 and 10 - Key targets for OBE.

 

[Cookster15]

Good to see Chaves doing well. OGE getting good value for their investment. Hopefully he delivers in the 2nd and 3rd week his season racing miles, preparation and form would suggest he will. A good chance for the podium - which step will be very interesting.

 

[jens_attacks]

He has the race in the bag, imo.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

He has the race in the bag, imo.

:lol: :lol:

 

[yaco]

Thank God S.Yates dragged Chavez up the last 2km today.