Euro 2012

[Descender]

The disagreement is about whether or not what we saw tonight represents the best of this Spanish team? I don't think it does, despite not being Spanish.

I think even this lot of midfield players could produce more incisive attacking play if they had to. They didn't have to tonight once they had an early goal because the French capitulated, as seems to be their character.

I am not defending Del Bosque's bizarre team selection. I would also like to see at least one proper striker playing. Can you explain why Llorente can't get a game? Did DB catch him with his daughter or something?

Of course Spain can play much better than this. But for that, we should go from this:

------------Casillas---------------
Arbeloa---Ramos---Piqué---Alba
------Busquets-----Alonso-------
Silva-------Xavi----------Iniesta
-------------Cesc-----------------

To this:

-------------Casillas---------------
Ramos----Albiol----Piqué----Alba
-------------Busquets-------------
Silva---------Xavi----------Iniesta
----------------------Mata---------
-------------Llorente--------------

Or:

--------------Casillas--------------
Ramos----Albiol----Piqué----Alba
-------------Busquets--------------
Iniesta--------Xavi----------Mata
--------------Silva-----------------
-------------Llorente--------------

 

[slim charles]

Mata certainly doesn't deserve place in 1st team before Cazorla, but more importantly - that team still wouldn't offer what Spain needs the most, which is the width. Navas and/or Pedro should be in starting 11 IMO.

 

[Descender]

Mata certainly doesn't deserve place in 1st team before Cazorla, but more importantly - that team still wouldn't offer what Spain needs the most, which is the width. Navas and/or Pedro should be in starting 11 IMO.

We obviously disagree. I can't understand how Mata, chosen Chelsea's Player of the Year (the European Champions, mind you), is so blatantly overlooked. Has Cazorla played a better season than him? What does he have to offer that Mata doesn't? Mata does offer more width.

I'd be ok with playing Navas and Pedro though, as long as they have Llorente to cross to.

 

[airstream]

What entertaining game do you call them for? The entire championship is bloody dull and defensive. Teams always look closely during the first time and no one budges up to the goal. They prefer to play half strength and wait for an opponent's mistake. We haven't seen fireworks in any match and won't see any longer. Del Bosque has it his own way and Spain will continue playing like that. I suppose, they will beat Portugal and Germany by 1-0.

 

[DominicDecoco]

What entertaining game do you call them for? The entire championship is bloody dull and defensive. Teams always look closely during the first time and no one budges up to the goal. They prefer to play half strength and wait for an opponent's mistake. We haven't seen fireworks in any match and won't see any longer. Del Bosque has it his own way and Spain will continue playing like that. I suppose, they will beat Portugal and Germany by 1-0.

Eh..?

This has been an exellent tournament. Amusing how you can forget 12 matches because of a dull match yesterday. Group stages were much much better than they were expected to be. Goup A looked a borefest before the tournament started - it was anything else! Not a single 0-0 in the group phase as well - when was the last time that happend?

Two team that wants to keep possesion (both top-3 overall in the Euro's) will always going to be a tactical match. France were too defensive. Had too much respect for Spain and let them play their game. Italy and Croatia, however, did exellent against Spain. Croatia could - and should- have scored 1 or 2 goals against Spain. Both great matches btw.

 

[airstream]

Eh..?

This has been an exellent tournament. Amusing how you can forget 12 matches because of a dull match yesterday. Group stages were much much better than they were expected to be. Goup A looked a borefest before the tournament started - it was anything else! Not a single 0-0 in the group phase as well - when was the last time that happend?

Two team that wants to keep possesion (both top-3 overall in the Euro's) will always going to be a tactical match. France were too defensive. Had too much respect for Spain and let them play their game. Italy and Croatia, however, did exellent against Spain. Croatia could - and should- have scored 1 or 2 goals against Spain. Both great matches btw.

I disagree. In my opinion, the yesterday's game is a mirror of entire tourney. Perhaps, there's been the only really spectacular game - England-Sweden. That's it. They allegedly played well against Spain because Spain had no vital necessity to play in full force both times. I divide intrigue and magnigicence and aesthetical satisfaction from the game. Naturally, EC can not fail to have an intrigue in some matches, but there's minimum of enjoyment from watching this Euro. The fact that they score goals in every game itself doesn't make matches super spectacular, entertaining and so on. A game can have goals while being absolutely dead.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah i agree that the tournament has by and large been a snoozefest. Sweeden england was wicked. Portugal Denmark and a couple of others but most of the tournament has been flat.

 

[DominicDecoco]

I disagree. In my opinion, the yesterday's game is a mirror of entire tourney. Perhaps, there's been the only really spectacular game - England-Sweden. That's it. They allegedly played well against Spain because Spain had no vital necessity to play in full force both times. I divide intrigue and magnigicence and aesthetical satisfaction from the game. Naturally, EC can not fail to have an intrigue in some matches, but there's minimum of enjoyment from watching this Euro. The fact that they score goals in every game itself doesn't make matches super spectacular, entertaining and so on. A game can have goals while being absolutely dead.

I'm surprised you've watched all games since it's been that dull from the very beginning of the tournament.

 

[slim charles]

Heh, that Sweden - England was very entertaining, but lacked any real quality, to be honest. Kinda like watching some English Championship game.
There were a lot of great games, in fact only few of them weren't. For me, this is the best tournament since USA '94. If semifinals are even remotely classic-ish games, I could easily say that this is the best tournament I've ever seen.

I can't understand how Mata, chosen Chelsea's Player of the Year (the European Champions, mind you), is so blatantly overlooked. Has Cazorla played a better season than him? What does he have to offer that Mata doesn't? Mata does offer more width.

I quite like Mata, but don't think he was great in the second part of the season, especially in Champions League. Chelsea had a strange season, in which they were bad for most of the year, haven't really produced many great matches, but ended up being the best in Europe. But I don't think Mata was decisive there.
Cazorla, on the other hand, had fantastic season in Malaga. Absolutely decisive in securing Champions League spot for next year, scored couple of goals. IMO he is better player, but I'd rather play Pedro and Navas. Mata is too similar to Iniesta and Silva - he does start wide, but likes to cut inside. I think Spain needs at least one real winger in the team, that sticks to the line.

 

[the asian]

Yeah i agree that the tournament has by and large been a snoozefest. Sweeden england was wicked. Portugal Denmark and a couple of others but most of the tournament has been flat.

You can't expect much more than this. This is tournament football and one bad game means you could be knocked out. Also teams have only a three day break between matches. It's typical for teams to play well within themselves to conserve energy.

 

[l.Harm]

I think this tournament is pretty entertaining, especially if you compare it to two years ago. Quarters has been disappointing so far, but most of the games I really enjoyed.

 

[Descender]

Heh, that Sweden - England was very entertaining, but lacked any real quality, to be honest. Kinda like watching some English Championship game.
There were a lot of great games, in fact only few of them weren't. For me, this is the best tournament since USA '94. If semifinals are even remotely classic-ish games, I could easily say that this is the best tournament I've ever seen.


I quite like Mata, but don't think he was great in the second part of the season, especially in Champions League. Chelsea had a strange season, in which they were bad for most of the year, haven't really produced many great matches, but ended up being the best in Europe. But I don't think Mata was decisive there.
Cazorla, on the other hand, had fantastic season in Malaga. Absolutely decisive in securing Champions League spot for next year, scored couple of goals. IMO he is better player, but I'd rather play Pedro and Navas. Mata is too similar to Iniesta and Silva - he does start wide, but likes to cut inside. I think Spain needs at least one real winger in the team, that sticks to the line.

Pedro isn't a real winger either though.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

what a boring match for christ's sake...spain is not longer what it used to be...
cristiano ronaldo will smash them.if not, the germans will do the job

It's a shame that Spain has become so boring. With the midfielders they have, they should always play with proper strikers and wingers. They would still control the ball and be much more entertaining and dangerous.

"become" so boring? Spain have been boring for some time now, I'm afraid. It's just even more obvious now since they're not even playing forwards.

I don't support the Spanish national football team per se. I support the team that plays the best football. In 2008 that was Spain. In 2010 I was torn between Germany and Spain (because, despite all their shortcomings when it came to score, I still thought they tried, and were entertaining). This year, I do not know. Spain has been pretty boring.

By the way, I wasn't implying I support Spain by using the pronoun "we". That wasn't my intention at any rate, it's just a manner of speaking.

I remember Germany playing Portugal and winning back in '08, and friends who hadn't seen the game whining about Germany advancing because they played boring football compared to Portugal. I had a hell of a time trying to explain Germany had been far more entertaining as well as inventive.

No nothing to do with what you said now but stuff you said in 2010. didn't have an opportunity to ask you before so asked you now. Spains football wasn't all that in 10 imo though. they just won everything 1-0.

Thank you! I remember punditry during that tournament, no matter what footage I watched, being all about how Spain played such beautiful, flowing football, but all I could see was strangling the life out of the game and winning 1-0, sometimes needing extra time to do it. It was perhaps more aesthetically pleasing than a José Mourinho borefest, but not much. Spain lost to Switzerland, for crying out loud. A team that has built itself on being like Greece but with even less of a cutting edge.

Germany were the most entertaining side in that tournament by a long way.

At international level, it's really rare to see a team that plays beautiful football win trophies. Not that it never happened, but most teams do play cautious football. Spain plays cautious football that produces great results. Call them boring, but trophies are what counts. They are still 1st candidate for trophy here IMO.

The problem is not that they win trophies playing cautious football. It's that they win trophies playing cautious football, but we're force-fed the notion that it's beautiful football. We're given chicken and being repeatedly told it's steak.

Incidentally, when was the last properly entertaining World Cup final? I don't think there's been one in my lifetime.

2010 - utter dross
2006 - complete boredom that goes to penalties, only saved partially by Zidane losing his mind
2002 - two of the worst teams ever to make the final thanks to a weak draw, top seeds playing like idiots (France) and some downright blatant fixing (the South Korea fairytale)
1998 - Brazil never showed up, totally freaked out by the Ronaldo incident
1994 - 0-0 draw with Italy relying on a half-fit Baggio and Brazil not really threatening the defence, followed by penalties
1990 - dreary, defensive, niggling, 1-0
1986 - don't recall, was too young. Was this any good?
1982 - supposed to have been a good game, but I wasn't born yet so wouldn't know.

 

[slim charles]

The problem is not that they win trophies playing cautious football. It's that they win trophies playing cautious football, but we're force-fed the notion that it's beautiful football. We're given chicken and being repeatedly told it's steak.

Well, to each his own, a lot of people do like what Spain is doing.
Let's not also forget that there is always 2nd team on the pitch. Against Spain, teams sit too dip in hope that will frustrate Spanish, but in reality I don't think that's the case. Spain doesn't need to go all out attack and risk conceding a goal just because. Germany rarely faces teams that play catenaccio. Greece did play very deep, but defended badly, Portugal caused a lot of problems to Germany in the 1st round of group stage. I agree that Germany plays more entertaining football, but there is also that aspect of their opponents still not being afraid of them enough to play totally negative game.

Incidentally, when was the last properly entertaining World Cup final? I don't think there's been one in my lifetime.

Yep. More or less same goes for CL or UEFA Cup finals. In general, semi finals are usually much more spectacular.

 

[hrotha]

"become" so boring? Spain have been boring for some time now, I'm afraid. It's just even more obvious now since they're not even playing forwards.

Yes, "become" so boring. Because they weren't boring before (and by "before" I haven't been referring to "just before this Euro"). I'm not sure which part of my statement you have a problem with.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I have a feeling Libby was held in submission positions by an elder sibling as a child.

Never seen such a morbid obsession with dominance destroying the joy of a contest.


That said, Spain are ****ing boring.

 

[roundabout]

Compared to England, Spain are Brasil 70.

 

[jens_attacks]

i just hope balotelli will score after all.

 

[DominicDecoco]

What a beast Pirlo is. Player of the tournament so far. Bossing that midfield.

 

[Descender]

Italy not playing like Italy at all.

Good to see.

 

[will10]

Not a terrible game, but England have been holding on for at least half an hour. This is gonna be tense

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Not a terrible game, but England have been holding on for at least half an hour. This is gonna be tense

With a lot of "kunst and vliegwerk" though, earlier in the match.

 

[jens_attacks]

extra time,go italia

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Jordon ****ing Henderson.

I knew we would lose, but I didn't know it would be an actual tactic.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Whats so bad about Henderson? Can he not defend? I mean, passing the ball forward isn't the idea of the English game anyway.