Euro 2012

[l.Harm]

He made wrong choices by joining the wrong clubs with horrible management. For example at Feyenoord he had to put up with Petrovic buying the weirdest players and Gullit just had to make something out of it. And a coach should never go to clubs like Terek Grozny because you can only lose.

I think Gullit will never be a good club coach anyway but he could be a good national coach because of his image and stature. All a national coach needs to do in my opinion is keep the atmosphere good and the players under control. He doesn't need to make the players better, or tell them how to play football, they nearly all play at top clubs. Not his job.
I think for a guy like Gullit it is easier to keep the ego's in the dutch team udner control than a guy like van Marwijk or Van Gaal. So that's why I think Gullit would not make a bad national coach.

+ Mark Wotte

 

[Caruut]

The English underrate players who play in other leagues because they don't watch other leagues and think that those who don't play in the so called worlds' best league are not world class. However if a player put's in a fantastic performance against a premier league club or the English National team that player will be suddenly rated.
A good example is pirlo, who was largely ignored by the British media during the last decade when he was probably the worlds' best midfielder, but after his fantastic performance against England, there is almost a man-crush on him amongst the English supporters and media.

What a wild and insulting generalisation. Amongst me and the guys I've been watching the games with, there has been a general sense of despair at seeing players like Fabregas, Torres, Llorente, Gotze and Kroos starting on the bench for their respective nations, when they would easily walk into the England team. Pirlo has always been well-respected here, though I think few who don't follow Serie A expected a display of that class after the last few years (bar last year) being relatively poor for Pirlo, by his standards. You would be hard-pressed also to find a British fan or journalist who didn't think that the world's best player was either Messi or Ronaldo - neither of whom play in the EPL.

 

[the asian]

What a wild and insulting generalisation. Amongst me and the guys I've been watching the games with, there has been a general sense of despair at seeing players like Fabregas, Torres, Llorente, Gotze and Kroos starting on the bench for their respective nations, when they would easily walk into the England team. Pirlo has always been well-respected here, though I think few who don't follow Serie A expected a display of that class after the last few years (bar last year) being relatively poor for Pirlo, by his standards. You would be hard-pressed also to find a British fan or journalist who didn't think that the world's best player was either Messi or Ronaldo - neither of whom play in the EPL.

It is a generalization. But it's not far off the mark. There is feeling amongst English media and supporters that a player must prove his worth against a EPL side or in the EPL to be regarded as world class. There are some pundits who think that Messi would not cut it at the EPL and the fact that C Ronaldo has done well in both EPl and la liga is given as a reason by many who chose him over Messi.
Even Andy Gray once said that Barca would not beat Stoke at Britannia.
Even in the Italy vs England match Diamanti was scorned by the BBC commentators as a Hammers reject.
Before the 2010 World cup 2nd rd match vs Germany, the English media was saying that not one of the german players would make it to the English eleven.
So even though there will be some Englishmen who follow other leagues and generally appreciate other players, the media in particular, and a majority of Englishmen, tend to underrate players who play in other leagues.

 

[the asian]

He made wrong choices by joining the wrong clubs with horrible management. For example at Feyenoord he had to put up with Petrovic buying the weirdest players and Gullit just had to make something out of it. And a coach should never go to clubs like Terek Grozny because you can only lose.

I think Gullit will never be a good club coach anyway but he could be a good national coach because of his image and stature. All a national coach needs to do in my opinion is keep the atmosphere good and the players under control. He doesn't need to make the players better, or tell them how to play football, they nearly all play at top clubs. Not his job.
I think for a guy like Gullit it is easier to keep the ego's in the dutch team udner control than a guy like van Marwijk or Van Gaal. So that's why I think Gullit would not make a bad national coach.

I tend to agree with you. Van Gaal has the biggest ego of all the coaches and might clash with guys like van persie and Snejder.
Gullit because of his stature as a player has a better chance of earning the respect of the players.
Frank De Boer is ideal for the job, but apparently is keen to continue at Ajax.

 

[Descender]

so where were all these Polish hooligans that were going to attack all the tourists?

Posting on cycling forums.

 

[the asian]

so where were all these Polish hooligans that were going to attack all the tourists?

They've all come to England to meet Sol Campbell.

 

[Caruut]

It is a generalization. But it's not far off the mark. There is feeling amongst English media and supporters that a player must prove his worth against a EPL side or in the EPL to be regarded as world class. There are some pundits who think that Messi would not cut it at the EPL and the fact that C Ronaldo has done well in both EPl and la liga is given as a reason by many who chose him over Messi.
Even Andy Gray once said that Barca would not beat Stoke at Britannia.
Even in the Italy vs England match Diamanti was scorned by the BBC commentators as a Hammers reject.
Before the 2010 World cup 2nd rd match vs Germany, the English media was saying that not one of the german players would make it to the English eleven.
So even though there will be some Englishmen who follow other leagues and generally appreciate other players, the media in particular, and a majority of Englishmen, tend to underrate players who play in other leagues.

Well, Andy Gray is an idiot, and regarded by many as such. I think a lot of fans withhold judgement on a player until them see them play, usually in the EPL, CL, WC or Euros. Ibrahimovic is a prime example of this - he really hadn't been fantastic in major CL games for quite a while, so was seen as overrated in the UK. Pundits and journalists would always say he was fantastic, but people don't like to believe the hype unless they actually see the player.

 

[hrotha]

spain: Casillas; arbeloa, ramos, pique, jordi alba; xavi, xabi alonso, busquets; iniesta, fabregas, silva

gaaaahjhjdhjxhjxhjhzjz

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Greipel and Henderson getting a bit of banter in after Adam Hansen mocked Greipel and Danilo Hondo after the semi-final. Today's non-Lotto person to involve in the twitter banter is Alejandro Valverde, not sure why that is, but they're having a bit of a laugh. It seems Henderson is playing oblivious to the sport, and Greipel's explaining things via the medium of food.

 

[Caruut]

Bloody 4-6-0. They have abandoned all pretences of playing attractive football, and are now set out to just use possession defensively. It is incredibly impressive that they can do this, and of course I would love it if England were able to execute a tactic this ruthlessly, but by god I find it boring.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Wow...Spain already at 1-0

 

[Caruut]

Wow...Spain already at 1-0

Spain lacking some of the tactical discipline they usually show. There seems to be more willingness to try the killer pass. While I appreciate it, I'm quite surprised. Perhaps the accusations of them being "boring" have chipped away at them.

Italy are showing a fantastic ability to vary their tempo. Pirlo and the defence are doing a great job of keeping calm and not throwing away possession when the Spaniards press high up, yet the forwards, De Rossi and Marchisio are playing with a fast enough to threaten the defence.

 

[Caruut]

Wow, what a finish for a left back.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Italy v Spain.

Whoever wins, they're both losers.

 

[jens_attacks]

and just when i thought that this day can't get any worse

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Two more years of 4-6-0 and Del Bosque. Thanks for nothing, Italy defence.

Still, Spain chose the right time to pick up their tempo and actually play some football, considering their run through this tournament could have actually been more dull from a footballing perspective than Greece's triumph in 2004, had they not produced the goods today.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Spain playing some amazing football today.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, pretty surprised to see Spain actually playing well. But it's as I've said many times: with no strikers and no wingers, you rely entirely on the inspiration of Iniesta, Silva and co. When they're not inspired, they can't break through, and much dullness ensues.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

They play fantastic today I have to say

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They are doing so, but it's a shame that means the pundits will go back to gushing about them endlessly and will use this as vindication of the 4-6-0 and will silence all arguments about the dullness of their style, based on the one 90 minutes where it all came together.

 

[will10]

The more I see it the more weirdly brilliant the 4-6-0 looks

 

[DominicDecoco]

Shame that Motta's injury closed the game completely. But I liked the gamble. Instead of waiting until the 70th+ minute to do something. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not so much.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

3-0 Torres. Well, that was fun.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Italy has been destroyed

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The more I see it the more weirdly brilliant the 4-6-0 looks

When they play like this, sure. But as hrotha says, it relies heavily on the inspiration in the middle, because there's no width and no real forwards. They've stumbled through the tournament with dullness and tedium, but it's all come together tonight, and they've shown how good they CAN be when they're all on song.

Which only makes it more disappointing when they spend most of their time playing 1-0 football.

That said, 4-0 is often more boring than 1-0 anyway.