Euro 2016

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This is irony at its finest after the French press spilled so much ink denigrating Portugal for not being deserved winners of their last matches.

I don't think Mustafi was to blame, it's easier said than done not falling for the footwork. The ball shouldn't have gone to Kimmich's feet in the first place. The entire defense was playing with fire by not kicking the ball away.

Oh well, two goals completely against the tide.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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its the french day, the french game...

otoh, the germans got too obsessed with the possession of the ball. anyways i'm chewing on my hat...
 
It didn't worked out for Germany.Those two mistakes were enough to push France in the final and the bad day of Muller & Draxler didn't gave them any chance to turn it around.
Well,at least Angie made it to the final.
 
Re: Re:

Põhja Konn said:
Archibald said:
Archibald said:
Põhja Konn said:
...Belgium's path to final seems obvious and straightforward and they are getting better themselves.
I keep seeing that Belgium are a shoe-in for the final, while no one mentions Portugal. Are opinions that low of Portugal ...
;)

ten chars

Well played :D

Back then I hoped and expected Poland to beat Portugal. Somehow (deflected strike and penalties) Portugal instead prevailed. Also Belgium looked to have got them some momentum after two comfortable wins, which made their capitulation very surprising,even considering their well known deficiencies as a team.
Portugal have great players, but who knows what their game plan is! And I think teams have struggled with that.

As for Belgium, when they lost vermaelen (sp?) and vertonghen they were always going to be suspect at the back.
In much the same way the Welsh became with the loss of Davies. No Ramsay and they were then there for the taking...

But back to Portugal, if Ronaldo doesn't fire, they really don't themselves, which will make the final a bit of a coin toss - still think the French will come out on top though
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
...
Gomez isn't really replacable, the first games with Müller as a striker instead of omez were pretty bad, it's a significant loss.
I think this got vindicated yesterday.

Germany played a great first half, but lacked a Gomez type up front. Meanwhile Muller is just not in goal scoring shape.

Still, Germany were hard done by. France was completely outclassed in the first half, it was painful to watch.
The penalty was a typical case of home advantage. The ref would probably not give anything for that 9 out of 10 times.

For the final, if I were Dechamps I'd go for Gignac instead of Giroud.
 
Oct 23, 2011
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I thought yesterday was a pretty decent match, at least relative to the norm of this tournament. We finally had two countries with great teams who both actually tried to win the game rather than not to lose it. Can't say France really deserved it, but on the other hand, when one of your players has a mental lapse and starts waving his arms around in his own penalty box, it's not really bad luck either and if Germany can't keep their cool and start losing it when their behind, it's also a bit of their own fault.

Another thing is that Germany, despite dominating for large parts of the game, especially in the first half, didn't have that many good chances. They combined very well outside of the penalty box, but I guess they missed Gomez in the end. I don't think France ever looked like getting beaten easily, because the Germans couldn't really get that last ball to the right man properly and because France still had some small chances in counters every now and then. Germany looked like they had better chances to win especially during the first half, but they never looked quite safe to me. When your domination isn't resulting in a lot of major chances and when the enemy has Griezmann at his disposal for counters, you better keep your *** together, which the Germans didn't do in the end. Germany was also screwed by injuries though, Gomez would've been more useful than Müller and having Hummels and Boateng for the entire game would've been much better.

But yeah, this was the first match I saw with two good countries trying to actually win the match since Spain - Croatia, I think?

I guess France will just win with 2 or 3 goals and concede nothing against Portugal. Of course anything can happen in football, but normally Portugal should get destroyed. Their attack hasn't impressed me at all and though their defense is pretty good, I can't see them stopping Griezmann, Payet and Sissoko (who, btw, has been stunning this tournament!).
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dunno. Portugal could play the match like they did against Croatia.
Is France so much stronger than Croatia?
Not in my book.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Re:

sniper said:
Dunno. Portugal could play the match like they did against Croatia.
Is France so much stronger than Croatia?
Not in my book.
I also think Croatia should have won that game 8 times out of 10. Portugal just happened to get "lucky" this time.
 
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Para por os pontos nos ís, as we say here. :)

Libertine Seguros said:
BigMac said:
Brullnux said:
Portugal deserved to win, not so much to be in the final but they deserved to win today. Talk. about scraping through, though. Prior to today they hadn't won a single 90-minute game.

I can see where people are coming from with the ''they didn't win a single game in 90 minutes and therefore should not be here at this stage'', but that doesn't mean much without context: Portugal were the superior team in 5 of our 6 games so far, only against Croatia did this not happen, but the Croats were not great themselves. It was an even match that one. So while I understand it, I think it is a bit dishonest to say we're not deserving finalists.

Not having a go at you, mind. You've been very fair in all your analysis so far.

Cheers.
You are right to point out that the Hungary game was very good, but for the most part a lot of the criticism of Portugal has been rightly targeting the fact that for a team with such a high number of highly skilled players, they have played some really negative and dull football.

I'm sorry Lib, but I think this is very unfair. During the group stage Portugal were by far the most exciting team out of Hungary, Austria and Iceland. We had the most attacking plays and the highest number of shots out of any team in the entire tournament. If anything, it were the likes of Iceland and Austria that played negative football against us. In the Hungary game we were very unlucky having conceded two goals due to deflections. We finished third by playing good football and now we're being criticized for winning a [single] game where we were sub-par.

Being the better team doesn't always mean playing up to your ability (England were clearly better than Russia or Slovakia, but played some really poor football, while Germany and Italy had been two of the best and most impressive teams in the tournament, and produced an absolute borefest of a match); in the Croatia game, the goal - in the 117th minute - was Portugal's first shot on target.

And Croatia's first shot on target literally came 20 seconds before Portugal's goal. The fact is, it was a bad game from both sides. No one deserved or sought a clear victory over the other. On top of that, Croatia had a better team than us from the midfield back. That was the only match we did not deserve to win. But then again, so didn't Croatia. I don't understand why we get blamed for eveything. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

They are also bearing a lot of criticism following on from Ronaldo's whining about the Icelanders at the start of the tournament, basically moaning that the team with fewer skilled stars didn't try to play expansive football and instead played to their strengths.

Funnily, Ronaldo never criticized Iceland for ''not playing expansive football'', I did. All he said was that he couldn't understand how a team could be celebrating a draw in such ecstatic fashion. And that was in the heat of the moment, it was the only time he mentioned the subject. I don't know if he trully meant it (I think he did, he's the type of guy who only celebrates wins, which is understandable) but I for one agree with what he said.

Now it finally seems like they're starting to click as a team and work out how to break those teams down that they'd been struggling with earlier in the tournament - and are lucky they've been able to stay in the tournament long enough to do so.

I don't understand how we've been lucky. Iceland were lucky, Hungary were lucky. Croatia was nearly as bad as us you could not pick a worthy winner over the other and we were the better team against Poland. I don't understand how we have been lucky. Quite on the contrary if you ask me.

The stats don't lie:

a) Being the team with most goal attempts in the entire tournament (112).
b) The second team with most shots on target (36, behind Germany's 37); additionally, the ones with most shots blocked and off-target.
c) The second team with most attacking runs into the opponents area, behind Germany.
d) The team with most corners won in the entire tournament (45).
e) Having the 5th highest percentage of passes completed and being the second team with the highest amount of attempted and completed passes, behind Germany.
f) Being the 4th team with most goals scored.

This only shows that we're one of the most attacking teams in the tournament, which goes directly against the notion that we play negative football.

The strong backlash we receive has mostly got to do with Ronaldo and Pepe, and that I can't understand. People have gone from hating those two, to wishing Portugal lose every match to take away from us our due credit. And this is not a dig at you, mind. I'ts ok to dislike him, but the vitriol has gone to bizarre levels. He's a better person than people think, if only you'd take the time to examine his progress and life without any sort of prejudice.

I guess I'll post something about it in the Real Football Thread one day.

Cheers.
 
We had the highest number of shots, because Ronaldo was shooting the ball 40 meters apart from the goal, either with his left foot, or his right foot, with his ***, knee, whatever. So many potentially good plays that we could have had, but Mr Ronaldo was selfish. Fortunately he changed his behavior for better and started to play more selflessly.
 
Re:

BigMac said:
I see you can use hyperbole, but next time try to make the exaggeration clearer else people will think you're blaming Ronal... oh, you are. There it is again.

It's my opinion (which you misunderstood, no wonder). If you don't like it, ignore it. If you can't, use the ignore feature. As a former moderator, I believe you're well acquainted with its how-to use. Cheers.
 
I think Portugal should drop Ronaldo. He is undoubtedly a great player, but IMO he hinders the national side.

By having one of the top 3 players in the world, the team and manager feel they can depend on him. Instead of playing with him, they play for him. Portugal have other very talented players that don't see enough of the ball in dangerous places, because Ronaldo has it and they believe that if Ronaldo has the ball, it is best for the team. Nani doesn't do this as much, however.

Yet, Ronaldo often goes invisible for large periods of important games. During this time against Wales, Portugal were on the back foot, partly because they were 2-0 up, partly because once Ronaldo is not involved the Portuguese team seem to have less of a game plan. See England vs Portugal in early June I think it was. Depending on a single player is bad for the team, like the Italian National Rugby team.

Moreover, he is a bit of a *** towards his team mates. The comments he made in February about his teammates were frankly appealing for a professional sports player, especially when it wasn't really true. A player like Ronaldo IMO is not a team player, but rather an individual using his team for his own success. Once again, he has improved this in this tournament but still feels his skill can justify him being a bit of a primadonna.

Also, I think he is overrated. He is the best in the world - against bad teams. Nobody can match him against bottom 10 sides in La Liga, or even sides outside the top 6. Against low to average sides, he is a beast. Against other top teams and in important games, he disappears comparatively. In most el clasico's he is not that prominent, or as prominent as Messi ok the other side. Against Atletico in the CL he was basically invisible until the penalty at the end. When it comes to big games he is no longer able to control games single handedly, so is not the best player in the world for those games. This year Bale has been better than CR7 in big games. Don't get me wrong, I still believe him to be one of the top 3 players in the world because of his skill and ability to win games single handedly against not so good teams, but not so good that Portugal should just play for him rather than with him.

Lastly, what happens when Ronaldo retires? Does Portugal just go in limbo for a while,vunsure of their identity and what they should do? By dropping Ronaldo, or at least changing the game plan, they will have a couple of years to prepare, while also allowing young players like Renato Sanches and others to blossom, becoming more central roles in the side. Basically, like Spain when they dropped Raul. I know this will not happen, but I'd be uninterested to see how Portugal do without him.
 
No, BigMac, I'm sorry, but saying that "we had more shots than anybody else" only tells part of the story. Where those shots were from is key, and also there's a great deal more to creating chances than just taking shots. A lot of the time a cross that narrowly misses the head or outstretched leg of the attacking player, or the break on goal stopped just before the shot by a crucial tackle is a better chance than a hopeful long distance shot. For example, England had 18 recorded shots by UEFA's statistics against Iceland. But how many of them were actually threats to the goal? Portugal have got a lot of great players, but they don't play up to the quality that they have. That's far from unique in the tournament, of course, England, Spain and Belgium all have done similar. But they've all gone home whereas Portugal have fumbled their way through to the final. Because England and Spain blew their lines in the group stages, we were left with the situation where almost all the top teams were on one side of the draw. Croatia and Belgium were perhaps the sternest tests left on the side of the draw Portugal were on. And yes, they beat Croatia, and fair play to them, but as you seem to agree, that was one godawful game of football where, for the most part, neither team came to play, and those few players who did come to play couldn't get it to work on the night. It made Wales-Northern Ireland before it look like the Portugal-Hungary game, the one really entertaining Portuguese match this time around. The first half of the Poland game was decent, but after that it all went to pot. The second half, yes Portugal were the better team and took several shots as the Poles were clearly more tired than them, but they still didn't create many real opportunities and the game went to penalties. And then, of course, Belgium fluffed their lines too, against Wales, leaving Portugal playing a fairytale team who had one of their star playmakers suspended for a place in the final. Yes, Portugal are starting to find some form, and yes João Mário and Renato Sanches are the real deal, but in most tournaments playing the way they have done they'd have gone home by now. And while you may be right that antipathy towards him means that Ronaldo gets over-criticized, there can be no doubt that his reactions around the field affect the way the team plays. People like Nani and Quaresma have been around long enough to just ignore it and get on with their job, but when they're taking different options and getting stared down or shouted at for not passing the ball to him, it does have an effect on the less experienced or younger players. We are seeing the team passing to Ronaldo when there are better options in the hope that he can produce a get out of jail card. Which oftentimes he can, because for all we may think of him he's a great footballer. But when it's not working for him, passing the ball to him so he can take a snap shot or try a pass that's not quite on isn't the best option. And also, Portugal get more criticism for not creating chances or not seeming threatening than a team like Austria do because you look at the Austria team on paper and say, apart from Alaba where is the flair going to come from? They're not a team which has a great number of players who, with sufficient freedom, could unlock a defence and turn a game, so playing organized, limited football is their best choice. That's not the case for Portugal. I do accept that you need to have some rigidity, because too much freedom in the system and it becomes disorganized when things are going wrong - and you get something like happened to Belgium, lots of great creative players but hardly anybody tracking back to help that injury-decimated defence. But that's what people like Ricardo Carvalho and Pepe are there for; Pepe, for all the hate he attracts, is a great defender when he keeps his head in order, it's just that he has a history of the red mist rising. He can marshal the troops effectively. Rapha Guerreiro has been really good as well. I'm just not convinced that with that much experience at the back and William Carvalho protecting them that they need as much rigidity as they've shown in earlier matches.

Throughout the tournament, Portugal have struggled to break down teams with well organized defences. Yes, some of those teams played defensively or stifling football, but that's because that was their only chance of progressing. That is always going to happen when you have teams that don't have any stars vs. a team which has a great number of flair players. On too many occasions when it has got to the final third Portugal haven't looked incisive, they've looked hesitant, like a team that isn't quite gelling. They've got too many good players for it to stay that way, but as I said, normally a team plays this disappointingly and they'd already have gone home; they've got the star power and the players with the skill level to turn a game that nobody should be surprised that if it finally clicks and they turn on the style they win this one, but let's not pretend that they haven't made it this far without being fortunate.

Besides, they still owe France a hiding for the BS penalty when Abel Xavier handled the ball after it had already gone off the pitch in the Euro 2000 semi.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Also, Portugal are among the four teams who played most matches, so of course they're gonna have more corners and shots than teams who played less matches.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Haven't had the chance yet to say i'm a fan of Fernando Santos and his particular charisma.
Not a narcisist a la Jogi Loew, not a clown a la Conte or previously Scolari.
Not a charlatan a la Dechamps or Wilmots.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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Portugal is not in the final,

They lost with Croatia, Poland and Wales, yes France did win agaisnt Ireland and Iceland and will play with Germany in final

Oh Ronaldo never scores against Barcelona, or didn't score in CL, at least he never scored with the hand likes other did against Ireland

When Croatia beat Spain they were the best team in the world, when they lost with Portugal they were just another subpar team the same happened with Wales

We may not win the final, but at least we did better than:

Holland
England
Spain
Poland
Swenden
Croatia
Russia
Hungary
,,,
and so on
 

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