European Championships 2023: Individual Time Trial (September 20) and Mixed Team Relay (September 21)

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CHGJ2000

Jan 17, 2022
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saunaking said:
Ya ok dude. Road cycling and ITT pretty much the same :rolleyes:
ITT probably 100x more dangerous.

Egan Bernal?
I don't know too many injuries where a road pro just rides into a static object and near kills themselves
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Actually, I'd say road cycling is generally wildly more dangerous? Have you watched it before? Massive injuries happen on the monthly in races and occasionally in training, we had a death of a promising future pro in training on the road bike literally a few weeks ago from colliding into the back of a car and afaik a TT bike being involved was never mentioned.

Seems like you're focusing on isolated incidents and ignoring the constant significant injuries in road racing.
 
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DenisMenchov

DenisMenchov

May 5, 2009
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QueenStagiaire said:
By the way, the riders from Kosovo actually managed to take the two last places, even if you combine the women‘s and men‘s races.
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Obviously they weren't there to compete, but to promote their country while Kosovo is still fighting their decades long battle for fully recognized independency.
 
Wvv

Wvv

Jan 3, 2019
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EddyMazzoleni said:
As far as i rember poor Lambrech crashed and landed on the rock which caused his fatal injury. His crash was not similar to the ones of Kung and Bernal
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He crashed due to those tiny traffic reflectors you sometimes see installed at the side of the road. And then he hit a culvert full on with his chest, causing fatal internal bleedings.
 
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PeterB

Feb 20, 2012
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Aimar16 said:
I would have thrashed these folks even with an XC bike
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Why are you so obsessed with their participation? You are not new to road cycling so might have already noticed that participants from various "exotic" countries (from a cycling perspective) in ITTs in the World and European Championships are not anything new.

And specifically, Kosovo had 2 participants also in the last year Euros and even though they likewise ended in the last 2 places, there were also other similar "exotic" participants from Montenegro, North Macedonia or Armenia. One of the guys even looks like quite a regular participant in the Euro and even some World Championship race as a junior.

Finally, nothing prevents you from asking your federation to nominate you for the race if you think you would have placed better. If Kosovo team believes it is beneficial for their riders' development to take part in the Championship even though they finish dead last, it's their choice. UCI and UEC seem to support such an inclusivity in their events...
 
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Aimar16

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Funny how the mod deleted a post mentioning that the president of the Kosovo cycling federation sent his son to the European ITT championships even though he would have finished last in the women's field.
 
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proffate

proffate

Jul 10, 2012
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CHGJ2000 said:
Actually, I'd say road cycling is generally wildly more dangerous? Have you watched it before? Massive injuries happen on the monthly in races and occasionally in training, we had a death of a promising future pro in training on the road bike literally a few weeks ago from colliding into the back of a car and afaik a TT bike being involved was never mentioned.

Seems like you're focusing on isolated incidents and ignoring the constant significant injuries in road racing.
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Just imagine the injuries we'd see if they competed mass start races on TT bikes!

Obviously there are vastly more KMs contested in mass start road races on road bikes. The serious injury per km figure has got to be higher on ITT. In particular, trying to train on those bikes on open roads is a deathwish. And while it would be difficult to eliminate all dangers from a road bike race, I feel like there is a technological solution to making TT bikes safer, like banning TT bars.
 
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CHGJ2000

Jan 17, 2022
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proffate said:
Just imagine the injuries we'd see if they competed mass start races on TT bikes!

Obviously there are vastly more KMs contested in mass start road races on road bikes. The serious injury per km figure has got to be higher on ITT. In particular, trying to train on those bikes on open roads is a deathwish. And while it would be difficult to eliminate all dangers from a road bike race, I feel like there is a technological solution to making TT bikes safer, like banning TT bars.
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I don't think it's necessarily higher but someone would have to check. The norm for a dry TT is zero crashes which certainly can't be said for road racing, here we only had one because Kung did a mistake that I have quite literally never seen before. Riders not looking up for a corner I've seen but not what he did. There's also the point that proportionally far more of the corners in a TT are going to be pushed to the limit by riders than in road racing where they spend a large portion of time in the bunch doing little to nothing.

The entire argument is quite tiring as a fan of TTs tbh. When there are crashes in road cycling, there aren't generally calls for the abolishment of sprints, descents, or just racing in a bunch in general which is very dangerous. But anytime someone does some dumb *** on a TT bike, it's an indictment on the discipline.

Also fwiw, banning TT bars would do almost nothing in an incident like this, as has been shown when riders do a TT with road bikes, they don't look where they are going and would look up way too late to do anything about it. They also tend to hold the bars in a way that makes it very difficult to immediately get on the brakes.
 
proffate

proffate

Jul 10, 2012
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CHGJ2000 said:
I don't think it's necessarily higher but someone would have to check. The norm for a dry TT is zero crashes which certainly can't be said for road racing, here we only had one because Kung did a mistake that I have quite literally never seen before. Riders not looking up for a corner I've seen but not what he did. There's also the point that proportionally far more of the corners in a TT are going to be pushed to the limit by riders than in road racing where they spend a large portion of time in the bunch doing little to nothing.

The entire argument is quite tiring as a fan of TTs tbh. When there are crashes in road cycling, there aren't generally calls for the abolishment of sprints, descents, or just racing in a bunch in general which is very dangerous. But anytime someone does some dumb *** on a TT bike, it's an indictment on the discipline.

Also fwiw, banning TT bars would do almost nothing in an incident like this, as has been shown when riders do a TT with road bikes, they don't look where they are going and would look up way too late to do anything about it. They also tend to hold the bars in a way that makes it very difficult to immediately get on the brakes.
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People look for ways to improve safety of road races all the time.

And "it has been shown" that I am right and you are wrong. QED.
 
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CHGJ2000

Jan 17, 2022
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proffate said:
People look for ways to improve safety of road races all the time.

And "it has been shown" that I am right and you are wrong. QED.
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It has been shown by what? Very intelligent way of discussing things. Also, no when people look to improve safety of road races they do not seek to make fundamental changes in the discipline.

When a lead out doesn't look where they're going and took out multiple riders, there were no discussions of the sort we see with TTs. Anyway, if you would like to watch back the TDU road bike prologue, you'll see plenty of riders tucking their head down not looking where they're going and almost ubiquitous use of hand positions with no immediate access to the brakes.
 
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proffate

proffate

Jul 10, 2012
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CHGJ2000 said:
It has been shown by what? Very intelligent way of discussing things. Also, no when people look to improve safety of road races they do not seek to make fundamental changes in the discipline.

When a lead out doesn't look where they're going and took out multiple riders, there were no discussions of the sort we see with TTs. Anyway, if you would like to watch back the TDU road bike prologue, you'll see plenty of riders tucking their head down not looking where they're going and almost ubiquitous use of hand positions with no immediate access to the brakes.
Click to expand...

'During a time trial I am basically blind' - Stefan Kung​

 
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