Euskaltel-Euskadi 2010

[Chappy]

Don't you think you are being a bit harsh, based upon your criteria, several teams should be punted from the Pro Tour. I have always been a huge fan of the boys in orange, something to do with being an aussie who always cheers for the underdog.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Don't you think you are being a bit harsh, based upon your criteria, several teams should be punted from the Pro Tour. I have always been a huge fan of the boys in orange, something to do with being an aussie who always cheers for the underdog.

Yes, i think that the protour teams are close to being the ones I would have in their except Euskatel and possibly lampre.

 

[Chappy]

Lucky for supporters of those teams then that you don't choose who rides, I am assuming you would get rid of Euskaltel, and put in lets see.....BMC maybe.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

The french have had their own blood passport for national (non-UCI calendar) and youth races for about ten years. Based on this, french teams don't sign some riders (few) when they believe they are suspicious.

These riders are easy to spot, as they have tremendous results yet aren't even looked at by the top french teams (AG2R and Agritubel are exceptions who don't have a problem with funny blood values....which should come as no surprise when you look at the pro riders they sign and employ). The opposite would be a guy like Le Mével who climbs like an angel in youth categories, then can't compete in the pros, only to slowly improve his results late in his career as the sport slowly cleans itself up. (Or as Amaël Moinard put it recently: "It's awesome. Before the blood passport we struggled to stay in the pack. Now we actually get to attack. Even in spanish races!")

In Sicard's case I'm guessing he's one of these cases, not only because no french team has seemingly tried to sign him, but also because Cyrille Guimard was asked last year after the Ronde de l'Isard if he thought Sicard could be pried away from Orbea by a french team, to which he replied something along the lines of "I don't know if he'd be interested, but they won't give him that opportunity".

When pressed for clarification, he noted Sicard's prologue performance and quipped that "climbers aren't supposed to be able to do that"

Anyway, it's probably best I don't go on about this in this sub-forum

I'm pretty sure they don't trust him, and only time will tell if they were right or if they missed a talent.

What about the Feillu brothers, who (I believe) are riding for Vacansoleil next year?

 

[issoisso]

Tour de Suisse
2009 - Nothing
2008 - 3rd Overall with Anton
2007 -Nothing
2006 - Nothing
2005 - Won the race with Aitor Gonzalez
2004 - Nothing

Tirrenno Adriatico
2009 -Won mountains classfication
2008 - Nothing
2007 - Won a stage
2006 -Nothing
2005 - Nothing

You highlighted those races as being races outiside spain which they have done well in. 7 out of 11 of those races they did nothing. And your telling me that's were they have had good results out of spain. You have proved my point.
I may of mentioned "this year" but have now looked at the past 5and 6 editions of these races.

It's hopeless

What about the Feillu brothers, who (I believe) are riding for Vacansoleil next year?

I wouldn't know about them

 

[auscyclefan94]

It's hopeless

Please explain... you either didn't explain yourself clearly, i'm a complete idiot OR you have not researched properley.

 

[craig1985]

Just let it go.

 

[Angliru]

Yes, i think that the protour teams are close to being the ones I would have in their except Euskatel and possibly lampre.

You say that Euskatel is useless and underserving of their Pro Tour status. As a Spanish team it is only logical that they would target the big Spanish races. They have a rider in Sammy Sanchez who is capable of winning in the Ardennes classics, is the current Olympic road race champion, and finished the Vuelta on the 2nd step. That is a major accomplishment for any Pro Tour team and I would think that most teams: Pro Tour or Professional Continental would be quite happy with a result like that. I would think that his teammates are quite proud of their accomplishment as are the supporters in the Basque region of Spain. This result alone should be enough to cover the performance aspect of the Pro Tour requirements.

I can only surmise based on your recent posts regarding Spanish riders finishing ahead of your beloved Cadel that this is the true reason for this hostility in addition to your misguided desire for BMC to be in the Pro Tour thus in your eyes giving them better odds of getting a Tour invite. From what I've read about the BMC, they never applied for a Pro Tour license thus Euskatel being a Pro Tour team has no bearing on their invite.

The fact that Euskatel has chosen not to compete in the Giro appears to be another problem in your eyes. Wouldn't you prefer that a team that takes part in a grand tour do so with the intention of making their presence known, and depending on who they field as a team, that have they definite goals in mind, be they stage wins or going for one of the classifications? With Euskatel's self imposed limitation on who they will allow to ride for them, they really have to pick and choose what races they can hope to be a factor in. With June being a month with a heavy schedule of Spanish races compared to May when the Giro takes place, they have to focus on what better serves their interests. Add to that the Tour in July where they need to field their strongest team to support Sanchez's ambitions. Not to mention the Vuelta and whatever other major Spanish races there are after the Tour.

 

[Angliru]

IIRC isso, Eric Boyer expressed his disappiontment that he missed out on the signing of Sicard.

Boyer's sentiments were quoted in one of the major cycling mags-either Cycle Sport America or Pro Cycling I can't recall exactly which one. He pretty much admitted that they dropped the ball on Sicard.

 

[craig1985]

Actually I think it is quite noble of Euskaltel not to ride the Giro, why take up the place of an Italian team that does want to be there when you are going to send a bunch of neo-pro's to the race?

 

[craig1985]

Boyer's sentiments were quoted in one of the major cycling mags-either Cycle Sport America or Pro Cycling I can't recall exactly which one. He pretty admitted that they dropped the ball on Sicard.

The latter. I think it was in the PC Review of the Year.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Boyer's sentiments were quoted in one of the major cycling mags-either Cycle Sport America or Pro Cycling I can't recall exactly which one. He pretty admitted that they dropped the ball on Sicard.

It probably got regurgitated here

Top French teams Cofidis, Française des Jeux and AG2R La Mondiale all failed to notice Sicard earlier in the year when he won the Spanish one-day classic, Subida al Naranco. An omission that has already begun to haunt one team principal.

"It's true that I regret not being able to have him in our team. I have though of if every day since Saturday," said Cofidis team manager Eric Boyer. "Unfortunately, it's too late. Euskaltel signed him in July, but I'm not sure it was [simply] because he is a good rider; I think they first wanted him because of his regional identity."

 

[craig1985]

According to Sicard, he said most French teams knew he had agreed to turn pro with Euskaltel, even though he hadn't signed an agreement with Euskaltel.

 

[Francois the Postman]

According to Sicard, he said most French teams knew he had agreed to turn pro with Euskaltel, even though he hadn't signed an agreement with Euskaltel.

Do you mean they knew that Sicard already had made a strong commitment so they weren't trying? (and probably regretting that at the end of August, like Eric) Or that they suspected there was one in place when in reality there wasn't one beyond it being a logical path? I'm a bit puzzled why he said he hadn't signed anything but at the same time gives interviews confirming he was becoming a pro-rider for Euskaltel in 2010 - which was well established by early August.

Various interviews I read asked him directly about the lack of interest from French teams, and in those he never said "because I already was gonna sign/had signed with Euskaltel". He does suggest a few times because there are many French riders like him, as capable. And that although he had a decent year, the ones that would put him firmly in the spotlight (L'Avenir and WC U23) came and after he had already agreed formally to ride for Euskaltel in 2010. Like here.

Early in August he gave this interview (in original french and in the pigeon english translation), so well before the WC U23. It certainly sounded like a done deal to me too. A great interview by the way.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You say that Euskatel is useless and underserving of their Pro Tour status. As a Spanish team it is only logical that they would target the big Spanish races. They have a rider in Sammy Sanchez who is capable of winning in the Ardennes classics, is the current Olympic road race champion, and finished the Vuelta on the 2nd step. That is a major accomplishment for any Pro Tour team and I would think that most teams: Pro Tour or Professional Continental would be quite happy with a result like that. I would think that his teammates are quite proud of their accomplishment as are the supporters in the Basque region of Spain. This result alone should be enough to cover the performance aspect of the Pro Tour requirements.

I can only surmise based on your recent posts regarding Spanish riders finishing ahead of your beloved Cadel that this is the true reason for this hostility in addition to your misguided desire for BMC to be in the Pro Tour thus in your eyes giving them better odds of getting a Tour invite. From what I've read about the BMC, they never applied for a Pro Tour license thus Euskatel being a Pro Tour team has no bearing on their invite.

The fact that Euskatel has chosen not to compete in the Giro appears to be another problem in your eyes. Wouldn't you prefer that a team that takes part in a grand tour do so with the intention of making their presence known, and depending on who they field as a team, that have they definite goals in mind, be they stage wins or going for one of the classifications? With Euskatel's self imposed limitation on who they will allow to ride for them, they really have to pick and choose what races they can hope to be a factor in. With June being a month with a heavy schedule of Spanish races compared to May when the Giro takes place, they have to focus on what better serves their interests. Add to that the Tour in July where they need to field their strongest team to support Sanchez's ambitions. Not to mention the Vuelta and whatever other major Spanish races there are after the Tour.

So if euskatel should only target spanish races then liquigas should only target itlaian races and radioshack should only target american races? Garbage! yes sammy does target the ardenne classics but really i don't think they give much or enough to the protour therfore they should lose their liscence.

This has very little to do with BMC, personally i do think cervelo deserve a spot in the PT and even though BMC have not ridden yet wiith their transformed roster, they have the calibre of riders to do well or animate most races.

Maybe euskatel should pull out of paris roubaix or any of the cobbled races as they won't be a factor in them. Ridicolous...

I may be seen as a little harsh on euskatel but this is how I feel about them. Strong in spainish races or the tdf but don't give a stuff about most over races. Harsh? maybe, but my opinion.

 

[issoisso]

only

Again, slipping in words that aren't there to completely change the original meaning and have something to yell at.

 

[53 x 11]

Ridicolous...

Yes..............

 

[craig1985]

Do you mean they knew that Sicard already had made a strong commitment so they weren't trying? (and probably regretting that at the end of August, like Eric) Or that they suspected there was one in place when in reality there wasn't one beyond it being a logical path? I'm a bit puzzled why he said he hadn't signed anything but at the same time gives interviews confirming he was becoming a pro-rider for Euskaltel in 2010 - which was well established by early August.

Various interviews I read asked him directly about the lack of interest from French teams, and in those he never said "because I already was gonna sign/had signed with Euskaltel". He does suggest a few times because there are many French riders like him, as capable. And that although he had a decent year, the ones that would put him firmly in the spotlight (L'Avenir and WC U23) came and after he had already agreed formally to ride for Euskaltel in 2010. Like here.

Early in August he gave this interview (in original french and in the pigeon english translation), so well before the WC U23. It certainly sounded like a done deal to me too. A great interview by the way.

That's what I thought as well. Either way I think he has done the right thing by signing for a 'foreign' team to turn pro with. If he turned pro with a French team, they probably would of thrown him into the Tour de France, which is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Again, slipping in words that aren't there to completely change the original meaning and have something to yell at.

I can't use the word only, i was using it in reference to what Angliru said. If you look at Angliru's post he used only in the same context as i did. Only is an adverb which was describing the action target.

Angliru said

As a Spanish team it is only logical that they would target the big Spanish races.

Here is what I said

So if euskatel should only target spanish races

Completely the same meaning and context.

 

[issoisso]

Completely the same meaning and context.

"It's only logical that they would target the big Spanish races" is exactly the same meaning and context as "euskatel should only target spanish races"?

And english is your first language, you say?

Are you BPC in disguise?

EDIT: why am I going on with this? I'm an idiot for falling for obvious trolling. Added to ignore list. Prontissimo, done.

 

[Francois the Postman]

EDIT: OK, that post of yours wasn't there yet when I replied too issoisso. You took teh words right out of my mouth / EDIT

I can't use the word only, i was using it in reference to what Angliru said. If you look at Angliru's post he used only in the same context as i did. Only is an adverb which was describing the action target.

Angliru said
As a Spanish team it is only logical that they would target the big Spanish races.

Here is what I said
So if euskatel should only target spanish races

Completely the same meaning and context.

Against my better judgement:

"As a Spanish team it is only logical that they would target [look here, there is no ONLY] the big Spanish races."
does not equal
So if euskatel should only target spanish races

That's why we all got that you really changed the meaning of what was said. You seem to revisit these quotes after it's been pointed out that you are adding meaning that isn't there, and still don't get it.

If I said that Cadel was targeting the tour in 2009, in what language does that imply that he was only riding the Tour in 2009? Or that he wasn't making an effort to win anything else? Or didn't have any other targets too?

For Belgian teams it is only logical that they target the Belgian races...
For Italian teams it is only logical that they target the Italian races....
For Euskaltel it is only logical that they target the Spanish races....

You're really not doing yourself any favours by an apparant inability to drop it and move on to another topic, whilst those interested in this topic can actually discuss what Euskaltel will do in 2010.

Your impression of the team has been noted. No-one so far has any real interest in actually debating your position in detail, or justifying ours to you, especially not after the way you have made your case here. To put it bluntly: we don't care (in case that wasn't clear to you by now either).

If Euskaltel is worthy of the Pro-Tour also wasn't the topic of this thread, and it's a sideshow that you are only keeping alive by making up arguments that no-one actually made here, and then getting really worked up about it. It's not a great showing if the non-English speakers here are reading the posts with more comprehension than you are displaying here. We heard you, we know, we disagree, now drop it and move on, please.

 

[Angliru]

Thanks Francois. I had given up even trying to reason with this character.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Thanks Francois. I had given up even trying to reason with this character.

So I have a difference of opinon and you find me hard to reason with?

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I think it is quite noble of Euskaltel not to ride the Giro, why take up the place of an Italian team that does want to be there when you are going to send a bunch of neo-pro's to the race?

I agree. There is clearly little to no benefit for the sponsor to have a presence of their team in Italy for the 3weeks, and with a small budget and limited GT riders it is very noble of them to allow a small italian team to get some exposure at the highest level in their own country.

About E-E, I absolutely love them. One of my favourite teams. They are real battlers. Such a small talent pool (as someone said, compared to the international talent pool of a team like HTC, E-E are doing pretty darn well) yet still come up with some good results. Not fantastic results, but when you limit your talent pool to basque (or 'almost' basque) riders, you can't expect too much..

When I first started watching cycling (via the tour) the first thing i noticed was the orange supporters and the orange jerseyed riders showing their worth in the mountains. I wanted to go out and get one of those orange jerseys straight away.

Given my screen name, I'm a big fan of climbers, and the fact that E-E chooses local talent who live and breath mountain climbing makes me want to watch them. The Pyrenees are exciting enough in the tour, but if you took away the orange fans and the EE riders it would be a little bit dull in the pro peleton.

On a side note, I think Sanchez should be targeting the Vuelta again, not the Tour. Too many contenders lining up for tour honours and SS deserves a GT win, and the vuelta is tailored to his characteristics. Not to mention that the defending champ, Valv, will probably push pretty deep in the Tour and may not recover in time for the Vuelta.

Anyways, i'll be supporting for EE when the peleton hits the mountains this year in France and Spain

 

[craig1985]

FOr those who might know, is the word 'Aupa' Basque for 'Go'? If not, what does it mean?