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Evans, to dispel a few myths

Mar 13, 2009
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See Evans' history of attacks below the media analysis.

Is Susan Westemeyer correct with this piece in CN
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/silence-lotto-surprised-by-evans-transfer-to-bmc

Because I think Lovkvist was at IMG under Rominger (not 100% sure) and his contract allowed a release from FDJ if he was offered more money. Now, this may not be a pro forma contract, from IMG, if they are professional managers, all riders should have a unique contract. And the teams have to agree.

But one should question, why when a contract is only two years long, is there a clause that includes a buy-out equivalent to one season's salary. It does not make fundamental sense economically.

All contracts are breakable, on mutual agreement and negotiation anyhow.

But I am not buying Marc Couke's spin, or Marc Sergent, that Evans had to pay one years' salary for a release. Even if he did, it is fungible, it is BMC x3 years less the compensation. So Evans and BMC are paying a penalty, both of them. It ultimately comes out of Evans' pocket, because it is his market value, less his release.

I think in this case, Lotto are spinning it to make them look better. Frankly, they treated Evans at the Tour with lack of respect, and did not deserve him. However Evans must take responsibility, as he did not really build the esprit de corps and get the team to willingly ride for him, in the previous seasons since 2005.

Ok, lots are pretty ignorant about Evans. He has attacked many times before Dauphine 2009. It is just he never attacks in July at the Tour, because he is riding GC, and he does not have the legs. And everyone who knows cycling, appreciates that the medical program often determines who is strongest and attacking in the second and third weeks. Read into this what you will. But to dismiss his inability to attack, does not concede he has always ridden defensively for the highest classement position he could, and he cannot attack if he does not have the legs. And what is his tt second place to Vino in 2007. Is that a win? Does a chrono win count as a de facto attack? All ridden in the wind? When no one appeciates the strategy riding GC, versus "attacking" and then wanting someone to ride like Rasmussen or Vino on a copius amount of hormones, plus the other riders one will not name, because this is the inappropriate forum.

attacks (by memory)

2005 Liege, St Nicolas
quote:
Voigt and Vino were watching each other closely on the 900m, 11% climb, and when the T-Mobile rider attacked towards the top, Voigt was onto him like a flash. Behind, the chase group blew to pieces as Cadel Evans lit it up on St Nicolas, pulling 25 seconds out of the two leaders in just a kilometre. He was joined by Bettini and Boogerd, and the three worked to bring the front two back to 40 seconds with 2 km to go...not enough.

2005 Tour (the only year besides 2009 when he was not a marked GC rider)
stage 16

2008 Fleche

2009 Dauphine
There have been many other instances, Tour of Germany, Tour of Austria.

You have to have the legs to attack at the Tour, and to ride away. Evans is the first to concede he has not had that strength to ride off the front. You would have to be a fool to attack and blow yourself up. And if you look at the history of the Tour, and the riders who have won the GTs in the past two decades, you get a picture, so you can put into context, how one can attack. Riders who were mediocre espoirs who should have never gotten pro contracts. Riders who struggled and were mediocre pros in NORBA mtb races in the US.

Marc Couke is just flat wrong, saying Evans was nobody when he came to Davitamon Lotto for 2005. He had worn the maglia rosa in the 2002 Giro d'Italia. He was the number one ranked mtb'er having won 2 annual World Cup titles, he won Austria and Brixia, climbing tours. He was on the podium of the world jnr chrono champs on the road, when he was basically a mtb'er.

Couke is a ruddy faced piece of Eurotrash who should stay at parties in Monaco and hoover up cocaine from the wealth he has made at Omega Pharma, and stay out of cycling. Guys like this, who will encourage behaviour and the downward spiral of a rider like Frank Vandenbroucke, should not be shown the respect with CN just quoting a press release verbatim without verifying the material.

Evans is not a sympatico character, but he has been dealt with pretty harshly by the non-Australian centric media, but the Australian centric media has been positively hagiographic from what I understand. Neither are correct.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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in defence of Lotto, they did try, but only half-hearted, with support for Evans. But I do not think Evans deserved a full support. See: Hamilton circa 2004, asked Riis for a full team at the Tour and Riis said no. Rightfully too. He could not win.

If Evans had Dekker, Kohl, Popovych, and Horner, who all rode to the best of their ability, and yes, this does require their previous medical programs, then Evans had sufficient support.

But this year, Evans who is notoriously tough and great mental strength went to pieces after the team timetrial, as he knew his Tour evaporated right there.

He lost 30 minutes on one stage, but was this before one of the final mountain stages, was that a "strategic loss". IE, a reverse breakaway, like the KOM riders do early in the Tour, so they can be given space to go off the front and not shut down.

Evans missed the split on the Ventoux stage, but his ascent of Ventoux was the same time as the leaders, except Andy Schleck and Contador. His final chrono was also one of the best times through the first checks, but then he shut it down.

If you look at the details of the Tour, like his power outputs when he was au bloc, there was no change in Evans. It is just he went to water, and was not riding for the classement after his team screwed the TTT.

There was a word he was sick early. I also think he went too deep at the Dauphine. He should have not ridden Dauphine to win.

There is also a misperception of Horner's help. Horner helped Evans in 2007. But in 2006 he was hopeless, because he crashed and broke/injured his hand/wrist and was not there in the finishing climbs. Axel Merckx was much better for Landis. Chrisophe Brandt was Evans' Johnny on the spot with bidons and aid for the finishing climbs in 2006.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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If this is the reaction of the team, why not publish?
If it really was Rominger who called them to bring the news that's pretty low from Evans.

He wasn't Mr. Nobody when lotto contracted him, but he also wasn't a real tour contender at the time. Lotto believed in him, gave him the time, freedom and wage to make his dream come true. I highly doubt any other team would have done that at that time.

I can imagine the reactions. You pay a guy millions for years and as soon as he finally wins something important he leaves. No trust after the tour this year? I can imagine if your guy with the podium wage ends at 30.

Coucke might not be the most pleasant person in cycling, he still pumps millions into this sport and for that I like him.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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I don't often agree with you but most of what you say is pretty much on the money, except what Coucke said about Cadel having to pay out a large sum was true.
It was a very turbulent time with Lotto and for anyone to try and perform at their peak under those circumstances would have been near impossible. Where the orders were coming from was never really clear; sponsors should set their requirements pre-season and then get the hell out of the kitchen.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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ak-zaaf said:
If this is the reaction of the team, why not publish?
If it really was Rominger who called them to bring the news that's pretty low from Evans.

He wasn't Mr. Nobody when lotto contracted him, but he also wasn't a real tour contender at the time. Lotto believed in him, gave him the time, freedom and wage to make his dream come true. I highly doubt any other team would have done that at that time.

I can imagine the reactions. You pay a guy millions for years and as soon as he finally wins something important he leaves. No trust after the tour this year? I can imagine if your guy with the podium wage ends at 30.

Coucke might not be the most pleasant person in cycling, he still pumps millions into this sport and for that I like him.

this is twenty-first century media. Publishing a press release verbatim is not journalism.

Evans handled it badly, definitely. Professional decorum is not his strong suit, he lacks in many areas off the bike, this one particularly.

One of the Lotto former DS has told me how they run their ship there too, so it aint only one-way.

You "pay a guy millions for years" as a market transaction.

Lotto got their media return. If anything ak-zaaf, you are to realise that loyalty and cycling are mutually exclusive.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Excellent post. You convinced me yeaterday that he was going to BMC (and I won a bit of money because of it). And once again the reasoning is sound and the facts.....um factual.:)
 
Mar 11, 2009
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blackcat said:
Lotto got their media return. If anything ak-zaaf, you are to realise that loyalty and cycling are mutually exclusive.

I understand.

The thing I'm trying to say is that the Lotto reaction is quite logical. It might have been a market transaction, but for that money you want some wins. If your guy leaves as soon as he finally wins something i can understand you feel a little bit robbed. But well, they also signed the contract.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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powderpuff said:
I don't often agree with you but most of what you say is pretty much on the money, except what Coucke said about Cadel having to pay out a large sum was true.
It was a very turbulent time with Lotto and for anyone to try and perform at their peak under those circumstances would have been near impossible. Where the orders were coming from was never really clear; sponsors should set their requirements pre-season and then get the hell out of the kitchen.

Evans is as much to blame for not being a true leader, in the Napoleon mode of Armstrong, and pulling disparate individuals together, as a team. That is a skill, and he needed that. I think he was travelling separately from the team in the past few years, and just how can he create the esprit de corps, and get his team members to ride for him, and believe in him, if he is not with them 24/7?

His first major error was on Ventoux I think in Paris Nice last year when Gesink gapped Popo. Evans held Gesink's wheel, which, could also have been seen as a tactical move, to be the anchor. But Evans should have been thinking not for the stage win, but for the Tour, and to try and get Popo the overall win in Paris Nice, and as such, he should have overtly shown his loyalty, not as anchor strategy on Gesink's wheel, but as the mtn lieutenant and dragged Popo up the climb to try and limit his losses. At that stage, Popo still was in GC contention for Paris Nice.

Vladimir Bileka screwed their season. Bileka is Popo's best mate, goes positive for epo, then Popo is scared, goes off his medical program, and rides clean or nearly clean, for the rest of the season.

Lotto obviously suck on the politics. Because they have fallen foul with Bileka and Popo (scared), Kohl, Dekker, (plus Leukemans and Brandt). Quickstep on the other hand, obviously get protection and 500k euro.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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blackcat said:
His first major error was on Ventoux I think in Paris Nice last year when Gesink gapped Popo. Evans held Gesink's wheel, which, could also have been seen as a tactical move, to be the anchor. But Evans should have been thinking not for the stage win, but for the Tour, and to try and get Popo the overall win in Paris Nice, and as such, he should have overtly shown his loyalty, not as anchor strategy on Gesink's wheel, but as the mtn lieutenant and dragged Popo up the climb to try and limit his losses. At that stage, Popo still was in GC contention for Paris Nice.

The funny thing is that after that stage Coucke confirmed that he called to the teamcar after Popo dropped and got all excited about winning a Ventoux stage. Evans was ordered to do what he did. He shouldn't have followed those orders, but it wasn't entirely his own decision.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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ak-zaaf said:
You pay a guy millions for years and as soon as he finally wins something important he leaves. No trust after the tour this year? I can imagine if your guy with the podium wage ends at 30.
They tell a guy promises for years but they never fully live up to their side of the bargain. Ask them what excuse they have for not keeping Horner after 2007?
ak-zaaf said:
Coucke might not be the most pleasant person in cycling, he still pumps millions into this sport and for that I like him.
Money talks hey..especially in Lotto, and you better listen or he will take his ball and go home; or maybe he will find a new rider who speaks the right lingo and who thinks they have the world to give him; just better get there fast because he won't wait around.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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ak-zaaf said:
The funny thing is that after that stage Coucke confirmed that he called to the teamcar after Popo dropped and got all excited about winning a Ventoux stage. Evans was ordered to do what he did. He shouldn't have followed those orders, but it wasn't entirely his own decision.
actually, I remember this expanation. Thanks for adding it to get the record corrected.

But if Evans was gonna be a leader, he should have stuffed it, and worked for Popo.

Gesink is one of the worst descenders in the peloton, and lost Paris Nice on the descent, and Popo is a great descender, he could have been seconds ahead of the field, and behind Gesink, and been part of the downhill attack and won the GC.

Such foresight, and strategic nous, choosing your team, and your king-maker (ie. Riis) 4 years out from when you are when to win the Tour.

Evans lacks that skill. He has had poor counsel. Rominger et al at IMG were going to push him to where there was most money short term.

Thanks for your contribution ak.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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powderpuff said:
They tell a guy promises for years but they never fully live up to their side of the bargain. Ask them what excuse they have for not keeping Horner after 2007?
Money talks hey..especially in Lotto, and you better listen or he will take his ball and go home; or maybe he will find a new rider who speaks the right lingo and who thinks they have the world to give him; just better get there fast because he won't wait around.
I asked Horner myself and I know he was not on much money, and was not asking for much. He also won the Romandie leader's jersey, so he should have been talking pretty good money.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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blackcat said:
Evans is as much to blame for not being a true leader, in the Napoleon mode of Armstrong, and pulling disparate individuals together, as a team. That is a skill, and he needed that. I think he was travelling separately from the team in the past few years, and just how can he create the esprit de corps, and get his team members to ride for him, and believe in him, if he is not with them 24/7?

His first major error was on Ventoux I think in Paris Nice last year when Gesink gapped Popo. Evans held Gesink's wheel, which, could also have been seen as a tactical move, to be the anchor. But Evans should have been thinking not for the stage win, but for the Tour, and to try and get Popo the overall win in Paris Nice, and as such, he should have overtly shown his loyalty, not as anchor strategy on Gesink's wheel, but as the mtn lieutenant and dragged Popo up the climb to try and limit his losses. At that stage, Popo still was in GC contention for Paris Nice.

Vladimir Bileka screwed their season. Bileka is Popo's best mate, goes positive for epo, then Popo is scared, goes off his medical program, and rides clean or nearly clean, for the rest of the season.

Lotto obviously suck on the politics. Because they have fallen foul with Bileka and Popo (scared), Kohl, Dekker, (plus Leukemans and Brandt). Quickstep on the other hand, obviously get protection and 500k euro.
Cadel I know had on numerous occasions tried to organise "team training" for the tour, he was the one that organised VdB to go to the Sierra Nevada this year; I think it was also poor communications in general, he rode with De Greef before Vuelta but that was by chance that they ran into each other not something planned. The debacle with the Tour de Romandie after Dauphine where someone stuck their nose in said he wanted the team to race and this upset not only Cadel's training but also others of the TdF team. Lotto's statements from the start of the season, where they said they couldn't contact him, have been showing there lack of discipline in team management.

I do also believe Cadel has some areas for improvement but its difficult if all parties aren't there to dance.
 
Apr 27, 2009
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powderpuff said:
I do also believe Cadel has some areas for improvement but its difficult if all parties aren't there to dance.

Spot on it takes two to tango. Everyone has room for self improvement, afterall what would life be like if everyone was perfect.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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powderpuff said:
Cadel I know had on numerous occasions tried to organise "team training" for the tour, he was the one that organised VdB to go to the Sierra Nevada this year; I think it was also poor communications in general, he rode with De Greef before Vuelta but that was by chance that they ran into each other not something planned. The debacle with the Tour de Romandie after Dauphine where someone stuck their nose in said he wanted the team to race and this upset not only Cadel's training but also others of the TdF team. Lotto's statements from the start of the season, where they said they couldn't contact him, have been showing there lack of discipline in team management.

I do also believe Cadel has some areas for improvement but its difficult if all parties aren't there to dance.
was he travelling separately in the last few years at the Tour. That is a big error. Partly, there are pragmatics, if he is held for controls. And he needed Serge.

But Evans was voted down 8-1 by my sources, at the Worlds this year. Bannan and Stephens wanted to go behind one team leader, and 8 votes were fore Gerrans, and only Evans voted for himself. And Evans refused to work for Gerrans. Rightly so, but I also thought Gerrans was more potent, because he could put anyone to the sword if it came to a 5 man sprint, where Evans had to get away off the front, and I saw no history that it could occur for CE.

Evans is not a leader of men. Might be from his family background, and then his mtb history. His natural personality is not alpha male-sporting-beer and groupies type. He does not gel with the teams he has been on. And he has not altered a false facade to get in with the boys. Ingratiate himself, get on the ****, go to the strippers. He does not have that in him, but he could not orchestrate the support he needed.
 
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powderpuff said:
Cadel I know had on numerous occasions tried to organise "team training" for the tour, he was the one that organised VdB to go to the Sierra Nevada this year; I think it was also poor communications in general, he rode with De Greef before Vuelta but that was by chance that they ran into each other not something planned. The debacle with the Tour de Romandie after Dauphine where someone stuck their nose in said he wanted the team to race and this upset not only Cadel's training but also others of the TdF team. Lotto's statements from the start of the season, where they said they couldn't contact him, have been showing there lack of discipline in team management.

I do also believe Cadel has some areas for improvement but its difficult if all parties aren't there to dance.
this to me just proves, he had the incorrect counsel in his career. There are few teams that win the Tour. I think Phonak/Caisse are exceptions. Phonak never had mtn support neither, when they lost their support Spaniards to Puerto. They should have taken the Canadian at Garmin, Hesjedal. Think he had a decent Catalunya that year.

But there is CSC. There is potentially Telekom where he fell out on. That was his meal ticket, post Ullrich, to inherit the throne. But he would have had to outshine Kloden. Then there is the Bruyneel team.

Evans should have said he would ride for minimum, for one year, and proved his chops to one of those outfits. I know it aint that easy, but you need to find the right team, and then rule with an iron fist. Evans does not/did not have it in him. Cycling is a cesspool, so this may actually be a redeeming character trait, and not a flaw.

Julich went to CSC-Tiscali on minimum. Vande Velde went to CSC on minimum.

Evans has manifest class and could get money anywhere. But I would be surprised he was hard off after his mtb career and Telekom, I would suggest, he had enough money to live off average weekly earnings in Australia from an annuity, and never have to work again. This may not have been real wealth, but it was wealth enough never to have to lift a finger if so disposed. I think his Telekom wage for two years would have put him close to the top 20 earners in the peloton. And he really did not provide any value for that. But circumstances were out of his hands to an extent, with injuries then internal politics.
 
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blackcat said:
this to me just proves, he had the incorrect counsel in his career. There are few teams that win the Tour. I think Phonak/Caisse are exceptions. Phonak never had mtn support neither, when they lost their support Spaniards to Puerto. They should have taken the Canadian at Garmin, Hesjedal. Think he had a decent Catalunya that year.

But there is CSC. There is potentially Telekom where he fell out on. That was his meal ticket, post Ullrich, to inherit the throne. But he would have had to outshine Kloden. Then there is the Bruyneel team.

Evans should have said he would ride for minimum, for one year, and proved his chops to one of those outfits. I know it aint that easy, but you need to find the right team, and then rule with an iron fist. Evans does not/did not have it in him. Cycling is a cesspool, so this may actually be a redeeming character trait, and not a flaw.

Julich went to CSC-Tiscali on minimum. Vande Velde went to CSC on minimum.

Evans has manifest class and could get money anywhere. But I would be surprised he was hard off after his mtb career and Telekom, I would suggest, he had enough money to live off average weekly earnings in Australia from an annuity, and never have to work again. This may not have been real wealth, but it was wealth enough never to have to lift a finger if so disposed. I think his Telekom wage for two years would have put him close to the top 20 earners in the peloton. And he really did not provide any value for that. But circumstances were out of his hands to an extent, with injuries then internal politics.

+1 Agree... (how many characters is not too short)
 
powderpuff said:
+1 Agree... (how many characters is not too short)

Powderpuff and Blackcat ...

Excellent points gentlemen. This thread has been quite enlightening, and it seems that both of you have some inside knowledge of Mr. Evans ... not sure if you are riders or how you are connected to the sport? (just curious :))

I think this was alluded to earlier in the thread ... that things tend to spin out once the relationships go to pot and the trust is gone.

Blackcat, you have noted that Evans is not the traditional alpha-male and not a good leader of men. I agree with the first part, but the second only is true in cultures where the alpha male is so celebrated, such as cycling! Some of the better leaders in the world have not been alpha males ... but then again, they were CEOs and such.

Evans seems like a fair bit of an introvert and as such, it is pretty understandable that Lotto's lack of support would have him being less and less involved with the team. Couke's and Seargant's comments over the past month really demontrate that they are disconnected from what is going on.

At the end of the day, BMC will be an interesting ride for Evans. It presents some unique opportunities for both him and the team. I also happen to have a degree of dislike for Lotto management, so I will not be sorry to see their GC chances a bit more drained :p (hey, they still have Gilbert for the one day races :D)
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Ripper said:
Powderpuff and Blackcat ...

Excellent points gentlemen. This thread has been quite enlightening, and it seems that both of you have some inside knowledge of Mr. Evans ... not sure if you are riders or how you are connected to the sport? (just curious :))

I think this was alluded to earlier in the thread ... that things tend to spin out once the relationships go to pot and the trust is gone.

Blackcat, you have noted that Evans is not the traditional alpha-male and not a good leader of men. I agree with the first part, but the second only is true in cultures where the alpha male is so celebrated, such as cycling! Some of the better leaders in the world have not been alpha males ... but then again, they were CEOs and such.

Evans seems like a fair bit of an introvert and as such, it is pretty understandable that Lotto's lack of support would have him being less and less involved with the team. Couke's and Seargant's comments over the past month really demontrate that they are disconnected from what is going on.

At the end of the day, BMC will be an interesting ride for Evans. It presents some unique opportunities for both him and the team. I also happen to have a degree of dislike for Lotto management, so I will not be sorry to see their GC chances a bit more drained :p (hey, they still have Gilbert for the one day races :D)

It will be interesting in having Evans in a team that could possibly put him with one of the best road lieutenants in the business with George Hincapie. George has great talent, but it is also not that of an alpha male but rather to support a leader. The question for me is will George be able to push himself to the edge for someone who is not an alpha male or will does he need to believe the leader is exactly that, a leader?
 
ak-zaaf said:
He wasn't Mr. Nobody when lotto contracted him, but he also wasn't a real tour contender at the time. Lotto believed in him, gave him the time, freedom and wage to make his dream come true. I highly doubt any other team would have done that at that time.

Really? What was his contract that he signed with Lotto when he went there? Was it long-term? Well-paid? The way I remember things, he was not considered a Tour contender in 2005, and the team was built around getting Robbie the green, but Cadel rode surprisingly well. Then in 2006, they made a few concessions towards Cadel but still seemed to be mostly riding for McEwen. After a second strong finish, they put more resources behind Evans in 07 and 08, not enough to really help, but enough to drive McEwen to Katusha. From that, it seems to me like the team didn't really take a leap of faith in him, he proved his worth to them in a few Tours and they decided that they had something good on their hands.

But I don't know the details of his initial contract, that's just me coming from a casual fan standpoint.
 
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This is a really interesting thread guys, thanks. As far as the point about CE garnering support and rallying the troops, I thought he was starting to make a good fist of it (finally) by helping out Gilbert in the latter part of the season, and as such I was actually thinking positively about next year at S/L for Cadel. This process is going to have to happen all over again at BMC. Hincapie et. al. could be great support (if only they can pull in another climber or two, hopefully Wegellius and Lloyd have 'get out' clauses too;)) but how is he going to win them over given his natural personality doesn't really lend itself to this task? I don't know that he can really afford to ride for Hincapie at Roubaix and Flanders, as this would make his season too heavy, and those races don't really suit him anyway.
 
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blackcat said:
Evans is not a leader of men. Might be from his family background, and then his mtb history. His natural personality is not alpha male-sporting-beer and groupies type. He does not gel with the teams he has been on. And he has not altered a false facade to get in with the boys. Ingratiate himself, get on the ****, go to the strippers. He does not have that in him, but he could not orchestrate the support he needed.

Totally agree.
My observation of his personality is from the Aussie MTB scene (90's), he is the opposite of a Armstrong. If you read "Close to Flying" you understand the physical isolation of his formative years in the Northern Territory.........Cadel is well, Cadel.


CentralCaliBike said:
It will be interesting in having Evans in a team that could possibly put him with one of the best road lieutenants in the business with George Hincapie. George has great talent, but it is also not that of an alpha male but rather to support a leader. The question for me is will George be able to push himself to the edge for someone who is not an alpha male or will does he need to believe the leader is exactly that, a leader?

Great point. I think George is great personality match to Cadel +, however as you state will that drive big George (-) hmmmm.


Great discussion Guys.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Willow22 said:
This is a really interesting thread guys, thanks. As far as the point about CE garnering support and rallying the troops, I thought he was starting to make a good fist of it (finally) by helping out Gilbert in the latter part of the season, and as such I was actually thinking positively about next year at S/L for Cadel. This process is going to have to happen all over again at BMC. Hincapie et. al. could be great support (if only they can pull in another climber or two, hopefully Wegellius and Lloyd have 'get out' clauses too;)) but how is he going to win them over given his natural personality doesn't really lend itself to this task? I don't know that he can really afford to ride for Hincapie at Roubaix and Flanders, as this would make his season too heavy, and those races don't really suit him anyway.

Granted Hincapie is generally regarded as the consummate team worker, but I wonder if his friendship with Armstrong will come into play at all wrt supporting Evans at the Tour.