Evans's change of approach

[on3m@n@rmy]

May be right about him having confidence. How about him not having the killer instinct then? You got to be an assassin in the mountains.

It's hard to be an assassin when it can't be backed up. I think Cadel has the cajones... just not the engine, as many posters before me have put in various ways. Also, his engine isn't too far off some of the others. I'm hoping he finds a way to get more out of what he's got.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

*hopes ACF doesn't read this*

I actually really like Evans the past 2 years, not only as a cylist but also as person he showed more humor and he seems like a real nice person, also not so annoying on twitter than all these young dudes.. Hope that this change of approach does not mean he doesn't attack anymore in any race, and then fails at the Tour... That would mean waisting a season.

 

[theyoungest]

http://www.letour.fr/2010/TDF/LIVE/fr/1900/classement/index.html

Come back when he actually does a top 10 in a GT time trial or the Worlds. Then he'll have proven him self.

He's overhyped simple as that. And I'm not calling him overhyped because of his time trial talent, but because people think he can do well in P-R or the RVV.

Ah, so "Leipheimer sucks at time trials" is based upon the Tour? Nice work.

And Degenkolb proves himself by beating another neo pro in a sprint at the Volta ao Algarve, whereas Phinney has to do top-10 in a GT time trial? Double standards much?

 

[The Hitch]

you still going around that? *sight can't you just see they were just a part of a bigger example. btw it would be nice if you could type my name properly. . . but you can just call me Par thats what every1 does

Excuse me. You said British riders were overhyped. Now either they are overhyped or they are not.

If you go and make that statement then dont expect that everyone will just take your word for it. So yes im still going on about that. If you dont want an issue to be discussed then dont put it forward.

I apologize for misspelling your name.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ah, so "Leipheimer sucks at time trials" is based upon the Tour? Nice work.

And Degenkolb proves himself by beating another neo pro in a sprint at the Volta ao Algarve, whereas Phinney has to do top-10 in a GT time trial? Double standards much?

It's not like getting a top 10 in a time trial is actually hard if you really have something called talent...

I guess you didn't watch Degenkolb at the Omloop.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ah, so "Leipheimer sucks at time trials" is based upon the Tour? Nice work.

And Degenkolb proves himself by beating another neo pro in a sprint at the Volta ao Algarve, whereas Phinney has to do top-10 in a GT time trial? Double standards much?

I think the more the hype, the more the achievement has to be to prove themselves worth the hype.

If you feel Degenkolb wasn't hyped much then winning in the Algarve may be enough to you. But Phinney is hyped on here a LOT more than Degenkolb. Therefore he has to achieve more before he has justified that hype. Maybe demanding a top 10 in a GT time trial is a bit too high a price, though. I suspect that TJVG and Sagan have rewritten our expectations of neo-pros.

 

[El Pistolero]

I think the more the hype, the more the achievement has to be to prove themselves worth the hype.

If you feel Degenkolb wasn't hyped much then winning in the Algarve may be enough to you. But Phinney is hyped on here a LOT more than Degenkolb. Therefore he has to achieve more before he has justified that hype. Maybe demanding a top 10 in a GT time trial is a bit too high a price, though. I suspect that TJVG and Sagan have rewritten our expectations of neo-pros.

Is it really that much to ask for a tenth place in a Vuelta or Giro tt? Flat one of course.

And besides, I think he's overhyped in the classics department, I never said a word about his tting abilities before theyoungest started to whine about it. Beating Leipheimer in an event he probably didn't peak for is not impressive what so ever.

Make it a top 10 at a P-N or T-A tt then if you think a GT is too much to ask for.

 

[The Hitch]

Regarding Phinney, you can only beat whats in front of you.

Last year to prove himself he would have had to maybe beat one of the tt specialists of the last decade - Levi, and definately win gold at worlds u23.

Guess what, he did both.

Now we move on to 2011.

He has hes been injured and hasn't had much of a chance. When he enters the peloton and starts doing poorly then you can say he has failed. But atm, its so far so good.

 

[El Pistolero]

Regarding Phinney, you can only beat whats in front of you.

Last year to prove himself he would have had to maybe beat one of the gt tt specialists of our time - Levi, and definately win gold at worlds u23.

Guess what, he did both.

Now we move on to 2011.

He has hes been injured and hasn't had much of a chance. When he enters the peloton and starts doing poorly then you can say he has failed. But atm, its so far so good.

I never said he failed, but he hasn't proven him self in the protour peloton yet. He still has got to show him self. Beating Leipheimer isn't really all that flattering anymore.

I only start hyping someone when he actually won something already in a pro race or did really good in one. Guys like Sagan, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Degenkolb(Omloop), etc

 

[hrotha]

The guy's 20, for god's sake. I should hope he doesn't ride any GT this year.

Unreasonable expectations everywhere. Curse you, Peter Sagan.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I don't even want to know what they expect of neo-pro's next year if f.ex Phinney suddenly wins something huge this year

 

[El Pistolero]

The guy's 20, for god's sake. I should hope he doesn't ride any GT this year.

Unreasonable expectations everywhere. Curse you, Peter Sagan.

Not unreasonable expectations, I don't expect him to do anything before he has proven him self in a pro race. That's when the expectations begin. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

I don't care for what he did in the espoirs, those results mean nothing. Just look at Steegmans compared to Boonen how little results in that category mean.

I have 0 expectations for Phinney. Ok, that's a lie. I have Cero, cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cinco expectation for him

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's hard to be an assassin when it can't be backed up. I think Cadel has the cajones... just not the engine, as many posters before me have put in various ways. Also, his engine isn't too far off some of the others. I'm hoping he finds a way to get more out of what he's got.

actually evans has an INCREDIBLE engine. he's just limited in other parts mostly mentally. he's always afraid other riders profit from his effors. look at the tour 2008 when sastre attacked evans didn;'t dare to do his own little mountainitt with the schlecks in his wheel. mentally the guy is so weak he will never win a gt.

 

[hfer07]

don't matter which approach Cadel is going to take from now on-he'll come short either way..
if he's dreaming to do what Sastre did back in 08, he must have had the strongest team at his entire disposal & convinced them somehow he's worth the effort-otherwise he's trying in vain to reach what is unattainable....

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Not unreasonable expectations, I don't expect him to do anything before he has proven him self in a pro race. That's when the expectations begin. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

I don't care for what he did in the espoirs, those results mean nothing. Just look at Steegmans compared to Boonen how little results in that category mean.

I have 0 expectations for Phinney. Ok, that's a lie. I have Cero, cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cero cinco expectation for him

what do you mean?? boonen won way more than steegmans in u23 and boonen was only an u23 for 2 years while steegmans was for 4 years

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

don't matter which approach Cadel is going to take from now on-he'll come short either way..
if he's dreaming to do what Sastre did back in 08, he must have had the strongest team at his entire disposal & convinced them somehow he's worth the effort-otherwise he's trying in vain to reach what is unattainable....

exatcly. also just look at the guy he is born to fail (his own expectations)

 

[kurtinsc]

Is it really that much to ask for a tenth place in a Vuelta or Giro tt? Flat one of course.

And besides, I think he's overhyped in the classics department, I never said a word about his tting abilities before theyoungest started to whine about it. Beating Leipheimer in an event he probably didn't peak for is not impressive what so ever.

Make it a top 10 at a P-N or T-A tt then if you think a GT is too much to ask for.

Uh... yeah it is when he hasn't riden in the race yet.

And you said he was overhyped... not overhyped as a classics rider. If you had sat the later, I would have agreed with you.

If he gets healthy and doesn't get consistent top 10's in ITT's over mostly flat ground, then it would be fair to say he's overrated. But so far what we know is he beat a guy in Levi Leipheimer last year who managed five top-5 ITT finishes in pretty big races (P-N, Catalunya, TDS, Algarve, California). And he beat him three times... not just in one race.

Until we have more data showing us something one way or the other, the evidence supports him not being particularly overhyped against the clock.

He hasn't backed up any claims for northern classics or sprinting excellence (though he had a couple of decent top 10 sprint finishes in Qatar last year). He hasn't contested a sprint or ridded a cobbled race yet this year due to injury. He hasn't been proven as an overhyped talent yet... pretty much all the evidence still points to much of the hype being warranted (unless you think he'll be an Ardennes rider or win a race with climbing involved... then you're crazy).

When results start showing that he's not living up to they hype... attack then.

 

[El Pistolero]

what do you mean?? boonen won way more than steegmans in u23 and boonen was only an u23 for 2 years while steegmans was for 4 years

They were pretty comparable in the u23 category and look how big the difference is now. Steegmans was big in u23 category. Now not so much.

 

[theyoungest]

It's not like getting a top 10 in a time trial is actually hard if you really have something called talent...

Well, the kid clearly has talent. If you don't recognize that, you're blind. He's been called a machine by his U23 competitors, and I think he'll be a machine in pro time trials as well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Uh... yeah it is when he hasn't riden in the race yet.

And you said he was overhyped... not overhyped as a classics rider. If you had sat the later, I would have agreed with you.

If he gets healthy and doesn't get consistent top 10's in ITT's over mostly flat ground, then it would be fair to say he's overrated. But so far what we know is he beat a guy in Levi Leipheimer last year who managed five top-5 ITT finishes in pretty big races (P-N, Catalunya, TDS, Algarve, California). And he beat him three times... not just in one race.

Until we have more data showing us something one way or the other, the evidence supports him not being particularly overhyped against the clock.

He hasn't backed up any claims for northern classics or sprinting excellence (though he had a couple of decent top 10 sprint finishes in Qatar last year). He hasn't contested a sprint or ridded a cobbled race yet this year due to injury. He hasn't been proven as an overhyped talent yet... pretty much all the evidence still points to much of the hype being warranted (unless you think he'll be an Ardennes rider or win a race with climbing involved... then you're crazy).

When results start showing that he's not living up to they hype... attack then.

People only talked about him being a classics specialist. Not much talk went into his tt abilities. So yes, he's overhyped. I don't feel the need to specify my self, but I did now.

He's overhyped in the classics hence he is overhyped, his abilities in the tt aren't going to change the fact that he's overhyped.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

They were pretty comparable in the u23 category and look how big the difference is now. Steegmans was big in u23 category. Now not so much.

steegmans was 22 in u23 when he was strong. boonen ruled the u23 at age 20, is a huge difference. besides also look at the mentla aspect. with boonens head steegmans would've been nearly as good. you can already see in u23 wether someone is mentally able to become a big rider

 

[El Pistolero]

steegmans was 22 in u23 when he was strong. boonen ruled the u23 at age 20, is a huge difference. besides also look at the mentla aspect. with boonens head steegmans would've been nearly as good. you can already see in u23 wether someone is mentally able to become a big rider

Yeah, going to parties getting drunk and sniffing coke sure means you have a strong mentality.

 

[kurtinsc]

I never said he failed, but he hasn't proven him self in the protour peloton yet. He still has got to show him self. Beating Leipheimer isn't really all that flattering anymore.

I only start hyping someone when he actually won something already in a pro race or did really good in one. Guys like Sagan, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Degenkolb(Omloop), etc

In time trials in Paris Nice, Catalunya, Switzerland, Tour of California and Algarve last year, 4 people or less were able to out TT Levi.

So yes... beating him last year DOES mean something.

It doesn't mean he's Tony Martin or Spartacus, but it means he's a pretty talented 20 year old.

In the TDS, the only people beating Levi were Spartacus, Martin, Zabriski and Larson. All extremely talented time trialists. Cali was Zabriskie, Rogers and Martin. All very good. He beat Contador in the P-N prologue.

Beating Levi three times is a pretty significant thing for a guy on an U23 team to do. Heck, it's significant for a ITT specialist in the pro ranks to do.

 

[kurtinsc]

People only talked about him being a classics specialist. Not much talk went into his tt abilities. So yes, he's overhyped. I don't feel the need to specify my self, but I did now.

He's overhyped in the classics hence he is overhyped, his abilities in the tt aren't going to change the fact that he's overhyped.

HOW CAN HE BE OVERHYPED IN THE CLASSICS IF HE HASN'T RIDDEN ONE YET?!?!?!

Don't you actually have to have a CHANCE to fail before you are overhyped?

 

[El Pistolero]

HOW CAN HE BE OVERHYPED IN THE CLASSICS IF HE HASN'T RIDDEN ONE YET?!?!?!

Don't you actually have to have a CHANCE to fail before you are overhyped?

BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING ON THESE FORUMS HE'S THE NEXT CANCELLARA OR BOONEN IN THE NORTHERN CLASSICS.

Someone can be overhyped if he hasn't proven anything yet. Those people need to wait to say he's the future in the northern classics until he actually entered a classic yes.